celeb news Chappell Roan on not endorsing Kamala Harris: "There's problems on both sides"

[Patient Zero]

3 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

And there we have it! 

 

Why is it always the foreigners thinking they get to tell Americans how to exercise their civil liberties? Stay in your own lane! 

And don't try it with the "your elections affect the world!" because you just told me to ignore Palestinian suffering, so that's no longer a valid argument. 

They could actually affect other countries because USA is still one of the most powerful countries in the world.

 

For instance: if Trump wins he will porbably stop supporting Ukraine. This will have a huge effect because Trump is Putin's puppet. Putin would probably want to dig deeper into Europe next. Europe can't afford to lose USA's support.

 

So yeah, it could affect people outside of NA.

[Relampago.]

2 minutes ago, on the line said:

Aren't you in a big city on the west coast? Not everyone in this country has it like us. 

I'm in a western suburb of Phoenix, thankfully we have a Democrat for governor now and it's looking like we'll get a trifecta in state too. 

 

But we were also ~10k votes from getting Republican nut Kari Lake as our governor in 2022, and I grew up with laws like SB 1070 getting passed and threatening my Mexican family as well as Sherriff Joe Arpaio being revered as a hero here despite being a horrible racist and human rights violator.

 

So I get the fear, AZ is moving towards a good spot but it's not exactly a California or New York.

[Jay07]

7 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

Oh I know, that's why despite my disgust at the Biden-Harris's administration's handling of the situation I will be voting for Harris.

 

But Palestinian suffering is real, mine is hypothetical. I couldn't blame others for not wanting to vote for that, especially not Chappell who will face the same theoretical suffering as a queer woman.

I ask in good faith. What could Kamala do now, realistically. She asked for a ceasefire and I trust Biden is doing everything he can to secure a ceasefire via the diplomatic and intelligence routes. But again, realistically, in the run up to an election, do you think Kamala could reverse decades of foreign policy and denounce Israel as an ally? 

[Communion]

16 minutes ago, on the line said:

You've become a caricature of yourself at this point

 

19 minutes ago, on the line said:

We can't help anyone else if we're already dead.

You expose that it all comes back to - ironically - the privilege in affluent Americans not having any actual material struggle to reflect their claims on.

 

So you either have cis gay men now 3-4 times saying things like a lesbian woman is not part of the queer community or American nationalists like yourself somehow thinking you're offering help to the very Palestinians who your candidates are literally responsible for bombing and slaughtering. 

 

I mean, teaching liberals social justice rhetoric was clearly a mistake because most of Harris' defenders can't actually navigate the arguments they want to repeat.

 

Ex:

10 minutes ago, on the line said:

Aren't you in a big city on the west coast? Not everyone in this country has it like us. 

When you think the criticisms from Harris' left are from someone from a coastal state, this is what you deploy, while then lambasting the very trait of being from a rural state as being a crypto-Republican when Midwestern progressives like Roan bash Harris for her far-right policies. 

 

I think it's actually a good thing that Missouri queers are demanding more of Harris in protest of her campaign throwing minorities under the bus to win over Nikki Haley voters than deep blue state liberals who can only talk about it being coconut brat summer or whatever you're now saying online.

Edited September 22 by Communion

[Relampago.]

4 minutes ago, Patient Zero said:

They could actually affect other countries because USA is still one of the most powerful countries in the world.

 

For instance: if Trump wins he will porbably stop supporting Ukraine. This will have a huge effect because Trump is Putin's puppet. Putin would probably want to dig deeper into Europe next. Europe can't afford to lose USA's support.

 

So yeah, it could affect people outside of NA.

Oh absolutely. 

 

I'm only saying that in regards to foreigners who come online here and say "**** Palestine" but then say that the US's election will affect them either as a psuedo-vassal state of the US or in other ways. 

 

I personally vote with many factors in mind, and my brothers and sisters across the globe also are considered when I cast my vote. I just don't like the cognitive dissonance of saying that I should care about x user's country, but it's okay to brush Palestine aside. That's all.

[Relampago.]

3 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

I ask in good faith. What could Kamala do now, realistically. She asked for a ceasefire and I trust Biden is doing everything he can to secure a ceasefire via the diplomatic and intelligence routes. But again, realistically, in the run up to an election, do you think Kamala could reverse decades of foreign policy and denounce Israel as an ally? 

It would be stupid to denounce Israel as an ally, as much as I wish for that to be a viable option. 

 

What I've said before in the election thread is that Harris should approach it like this: 

Make it clear that the US is an ally of Israel, but while the US offers its support to Israel, it cannot stand idly by and watch weapons funded by taxpayer dollars be wasted on innocent civilians. She should emphasize that further use of US military weapons to commit war crimes will result in a limitation of aid being sent, and if it still continues, an eventual arms embargo.

 

Simply put, Israel does need help. They should know that. We should know that. But they cannot be flippant in their use of US weaponry to carry out their genocidal fantasies. It weakens the US on the global stage, worsens an already horrible reputation and wastes billions of dollars when that could be used to improve the quality of life within the US.

 

Even if she doesn't end up going through with this, even just setting the precedent that US aid is not to be taken for granted and should be used responsibly immediately puts pressure on Israel and furthers awareness of just how heinous the Gaza situation is. The power a president holds is so much more than the policies they can pass. Their rhetoric has huge influence, just as we saw with Trump. 

[Elusive Chanteuse]

The so called lgbt icon taking a both sides approach 

[Jay07]

2 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

It would be stupid to denounce Israel as an ally, as much as I wish for that to be a viable option. 

 

What I've said before in the election thread is that Harris should approach it like this: 

Make it clear that the US is an ally of Israel, but while the US offers its support to Israel, it cannot stand idly by and watch weapons funded by taxpayer dollars be wasted on innocent civilians. She should emphasize that further use of US military weapons to commit war crimes will result in a limitation of aid being sent, and if it still continues, an eventual arms embargo.

 

Simply put, Israel does need help. They should know that. We should know that. But they cannot be flippant in their use of US weaponry to carry out their genocidal fantasies. It weakens the US on the global stage, worsens an already horrible reputation and wastes billions of dollars when that could be used to improve the quality of life within the US.

 

Even if she doesn't end up going through with this, even just setting the precedent that US aid is not to be taken for granted and should be used responsibly immediately puts pressure on Israel and furthers awareness of just how heinous the Gaza situation is. The power a president holds is so much more than the policies they can pass. Their rhetoric has huge influence, just as we saw with Trump. 

That's a considered, mature answer and I thank you for taking the time to answer me. Again, in good faith and acknowledging you are probably more knowledgeable in these matters than me, what do you think the impact of this stance would be electorally? Do you think Kamala can't or doesn't want to yank on Israel's leash? My opinion is there would be major backlash if she even threatened to set conditions on aid to Israel and the other side would have a field day with it but I admit my knowledge of politics is pretty superficial.

[ImpressMeMuch]

58 minutes ago, on the line said:

Lol you're doing way way too much. You'd maybe have an iota of a point if you remembered for half a second that Americans never chose Harris to be in this position, and the first time any American votes for Harris to be even a presidential candidate is for the election itself. Our choice is her or Donald Trump. It's not a hard choice.

 

Quote me, bring up where I live or what you think my imaginary job is, but that is the choice. Frankly, I'm just happy to see so many no longer drinking your kool-aid. 

thank you lol - they might be well intended somewhere in there but are doing the classic 'focus on infighting' rather than the actual problem

 

FWIW to anyone else listening, against their seemingly concrete belief of me, no I do not whatsoever have any issues with critique of Kamala's platform (and yes, I have my own). In the flurry to take everyone down in here they seem to be conflating our views idk

Edited September 22 by ImpressMeMuch

[State of Grace.]

17 minutes ago, Elusive Chanteuse said:

The so called lgbt icon taking a both sides approach 

She is literally a queer woman herself and this is not a "both sides" approach.

 

My god, some of you are so...slow.

Edited September 22 by State of Grace.

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, ImpressMeMuch said:

they seem to be conflating our views idk

Sister, you quoted my responding towards another user running defense for Harris' far-right immigration policies.

 

1 hour ago, Communion said:

I just think it's insane to argue people are in the wrong for asking Harris to stop advocating for things like family separations and mass expulsions of undocumented immigrants.

[Relampago.]

1 minute ago, Jay07 said:

That's a considered, mature answer and I thank you for taking the time to answer me. Again, in good faith and acknowledging you are probably more knowledgeable in these matters than me, what do you think the impact of this stance would be electorally? Do you think Kamala can't or doesn't want to yank on Israel's leash? My opinion is there would be major backlash if she even threatened to set conditions on aid to Israel and the other side would have a field day with it but I admit my knowledge of politics is pretty superficial.

So, we've seen polling data that shows Kamala would only gain support from taking a pro-arms embargo stance. She'd likely benefit from it a good amount, especially in swing states like Michigan. I can see why it would be believable that it would hurt her campaign, because both parties are pro-Israel and they are an ally, but that rhetoric doesn't really show itself in the actual poll numbers, surprisingly.
 

I believe the reason Kamala won't yank Israel's chain is for a few reasons:

 

1.) Kamala can't easily take a stance against Israel when Biden is very openly pro-Israel, and she is his current VP. She hasn't broken from Biden and I believe she doesn't want to show a rift between her and Biden. 

 

2.) AIPAC (a pro-Israel lobbyist organization) is quite powerful. While it's unlikely that they could swing the presidential election in Trump's favor, if it becomes a popular Democrat policy in the future, it could affect down ballot races if AIPAC begins funding pro-Israel dems or even Republicans. This isn't as consequential to this election, but could have effects later on.

 

3.) Kamala isn't exactly a leader on movements or new ideas. She tends to hop on popular trends rather than champion them herself. That's fine, not everyone has to be a revolutionary, but it does cause her to pivot to the status quo rather than go against it. I do think that's a double edged sword though, because while I felt we had NO hope on getting Biden to budge on Israel, Kamala seems willing to adjust, even if just a little, based on her response to Netanyahu's visit and some of her speeches at rallies and other events.

 

Also, no problem sis! I'm always happy to have healthy, good-faith discussions on here. It's not my intention to make people feel bad about their stance or shame anyone for their politics, but we have to come to the conversation with truth and honesty, which I'm happy you did. That being said, I do encourage you to do research, because I don't want you to take my word for it. At the end of the day, I'm a regular person just like you and I'm no smarter than the average person. I've sorta just gathered this knowledge over a long period of time, so it might seem like a lot to delve into but starting small and reading little by little over time really does work!

[ImpressMeMuch]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

Sister, you quoted my responding towards another user running defense for Harris' far-right immigration policies.

I just think it's insane to argue people are in the wrong for asking Harris to stop advocating for things like family separations and mass expulsions of undocumented immigrants.

 

 

and I said that it was made up, i.e. an exaggeration / straw man argument. Then you turned around and acted like it somehow represented my views lol

 

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Harris is pushing Republican policies and people - like you and others -  are attacking people for demanding more from her by attacking them

 

anyway aside of all of this - we agree. It is correct to critique Kamala's platform for these issues. Where we disagree is withholding a vote for this reason – imo it's a case of damage having been done (these are our candidates) and I understand nuance in having a platform to appeal to the more moderate to secure a win. But, I respect your view! 

 

... my original point to this topic was, it is not correct to equate this to "both sides having problems", as 26 year old Chappell Roan did according to the OP of this thread. 

 

Edited September 22 by ImpressMeMuch

[Patient Zero]

17 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

She is literally a queer woman herself and this is not a "both sides" approach.

 

My god, some of you are so...slow.

 Instead of downvoting everyone's posts, I'd advise you to learn how to read (an OT) because Roan literally says "There's problems on both sides"

 

And there are more than enough queer people who are pro-Trump. Just like there are more than enough queer people who are religious. Some people just hate themselves.

Edited September 22 by Patient Zero

[Strawberry Bubble]

well, now we understand what is her real problem: she's dumb

[State of Grace.]

4 minutes ago, Patient Zero said:

 Instead of downvoting everyone's posts, I'd advise you to learn how to read (an OT) because Roan literally says "There's problems on both sides"

 

And there are more than enough queer people who are pro-Trump. Just like there are more than enough people who are religious. Some people just hate themselves.

Except Chappell has stated her views already and she encourages people to use their critical thinking and vote for what's going on in their cities. She doesn't owe anyone a "Please support Momala!!! She is gonna save us from Trump!!!" statement if she does not genuinely feel represented by Kamala and her centrist/right-pandering policies. The irony of yall pretending to care about democracy.

 

And I'll keep downvoting straight up Zionist propaganda and Blue MAGA posts that I disagree with.

[ImpressMeMuch]

6 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Except Chappell has stated her views already and she encourages people to use their critical thinking and vote for what's going on in their cities. She doesn't owe anyone a "Please support Momala!!! She is gonna save us from Trump!!!" statement if she does not genuinely feel represented by Kamala and her centrist/right-pandering policies. The irony of yall pretending to care about democracy.

 

And I'll keep downvoting straight up Zionist propaganda and Blue MAGA posts that I disagree with.

if she's capable of elaborating daily on the struggle of being newly famous and clogging headlines with that, I think she's capable of expanding on her viewpoint with a bit more nuance than she did here.

[Broadcastthatboom13]

Apathy and 'both sides are the same' rhetoric is what got us 4 years of Trump in 2016. Getting the flu and stage 3 cancer are also both illnesses....but one is obviously more detrimental and dangerous. It's a dumb statement that comes from a place of privilege that lacks any nuance or critical thinking skills.

 

Is the US government perfect? Absolutely not. That said, you can't make change by going straight to the top (voting for presidency), ignoring that the fundamental way our government is structured is actually the problem. It's a respectful cause in a perfect world, but this world is not perfect. Not everything needs to check the box of your perfect ideology because you're not going to find that. If you look at domestic and social policy, there is a clear side that is better for women, POC, LGBTQ minorities in this country. 

 

You are allowed to criticize Kamala/the Democrats positions on things, campaign and put pressure on them to make change, which is what our democratic society allows us to freely do. We should encourage that! Trump republications want to dismantle that democratic society so you will never get a chance to do that. 

Edited September 22 by Broadcastthatboom13

[State of Grace.]

9 minutes ago, ImpressMeMuch said:

if she's capable of elaborating daily on the struggle of being newly famous and clogging headlines with that, I think she's capable of expanding on her viewpoint with a bit more nuance than she did here.

She actually did talk about this in her interview with Rolling Stone

 

Quote

Roan opted to turn down the invite, though there were some who misread what she felt was a pretty clear message. "I saw a couple of TikToks where they were like, 'So she's pro Trump?' " Roan's face contorts into disgust. "It is not so black and white that you hate one and you like the other. No matter how you say it, people are still going to be pissed for ******* some reason. I'm not going to go to the White House because I am not going to be a monkey for Pride. And thank God I didn't go because they just made a huge statement about trans kids a couple weeks ago," she says, referring to the Biden administration stating its opposition to gender-affirming surgery for transgender minors in June. 

 

My visit to Roan's house took place a day after an embarrassing press conference hosted by then-presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden. Roan and I commiserate over how horrifying both the presser and his recent debate with Trump had been. At the time, Roan's views echoed those of a lot of young voters, especially in the face of multiple wars, drag bans, and diminished health-care access for both trans people and those seeking abortions. "I'm pretty, '**** the government, and **** everything that's going on right now,' " she says, middle fingers in the air. "I don't have a side because I hate both sides, and I'm so embarrassed about everything going on right now."

 

"Right now, it's more important than ever to use your vote, and I will do whatever it takes to protect people's civil rights, especially the LGBTQ+ community," she tells me in August. "My ethics and values will always align with that, and that hasn't changed with a different nominee. I feel lucky to be alive during an incredibly historical time period when a woman of color is a presidential nominee."

But you and others are busy melting down daily about how "she's not made for fame! she needs to retire already" because of PopCrave/PopBase engagement bait tweets instead of properly reading these interviews. If you still believe she's a "centrist" for not endorsing Kamala (lol) then I truly have nothing else to say. Good Luck, Babe!

Edited September 22 by State of Grace.

[Lagerfeld]

Digging the hole deeper I see.  

[Swirl900]

It's like everything she says is annoying at this point. From all the interviews she does about not liking fame...despite doing interviews. To crap like this. Her music's great but she's becoming so unlikable.

[ImpressMeMuch]

27 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

She actually did talk about this in her interview with Rolling Stone

 

But you and others are busy melting down daily about how "she's not made for fame! she needs to retire already" because of PopCrave/PopBase engagement bait tweets instead of properly reading these interviews. If you still believe she's a "centrist" for not endorsing Kamala (lol) then I truly have nothing else to say. Good Luck, Babe!

oh nice, that's a very beautiful statement thanks for sharing!

And no to the rest of what you're saying, not me girl lol. My viewpoint is that her team is doing her dirty by not addressing her calls for help.

Edited September 22 by ImpressMeMuch

[on the line]

1 hour ago, Relampago. said:

1.) Kamala can't easily take a stance against Israel when Biden is very openly pro-Israel, and she is his current VP. She hasn't broken from Biden and I believe she doesn't want to show a rift between her and Biden. 

 

Personally, I think this is still the reason. 

[State of Grace.]

16 minutes ago, ImpressMeMuch said:

oh nice, that's a very beautiful statement thanks for sharing!

And no to the rest of what you're saying, not me girl lol. My viewpoint is that her team is doing her dirty by not addressing her calls for help.

I'm glad we can agree on that! Also, a very important part from her quote was cut off in the OP. 

Quote

 

The change she wants to see in the US in this election year, she says instantly, is "trans rights. They cannot have cis people making decisions for trans people, period."

 

As for the rest, I find it really funny how she has done about...3? interviews in total but they all happened to be published around the same time and with twitter accounts intentionally leaving important parts from them, it looked like she's crying about fame daily for last couple of weeks.  She has actually spoken about her team being extremely supportive and loving. I don't think anyone is forcing her to do anything. It's obvious that the quick rise to stardom has taken a toll on her, and she's been vocal about struggling with mental illness for years, so it surely wasn't helping. She's apparently taking a long break soon and it's much need imo.

Edited September 22 by State of Grace.

[Chris]

38 minutes ago, Swirl900 said:

From all the interviews she does about not liking fame...despite doing interviews