base talk Why do liddos support Chappell while Madge stans still hate Gaga?

[Rino]

since ATRL is bugging as hell today I decided to get Gaga-related news on a forum dedicated to her. one certain thread caught my attention, and it was the thread celebrating Chappell Roan's potential climb to #2 on Billboard 200.

I entered the thread expecting to see at least a couple of shady responses from pressed Gaga stans, but to my surprise there was nothing but support 

some examples:
 

Spoiler

I remember as recently as 2019, when ASIB was blowing up and Gaga was having a sort of a comeback, some Madge stans were still fuming about her over at MNation, to the point that one response even became an iconic GIF 

what do you think is the difference maker here? why didn't liddos take up arms when they saw a young pop girl rise who somewhat resembles Gaga?
and why are they behaving differently to Madonna stans who did (and select few continue to do) everything in their power to put Gaga and her fans down? 

[Biggie]

If you'd like to know about behaviour, I would ask a behavioural therapist on behalf of yourself if these questions from 2011 are keeping your eyes twitching.

Edited August 14 by Biggie

[pisuke]

Oh, shut the **** up delulu

[MatiRod]

Visually, there is a comparison, sure. Musically, I don't hear any Gaga in Chappell's music. Gaga has two big strands to her music: huge euro dance-pop, and huge rock-ish power ballads, neither of which Chappell is doing.

 

To me Chappell sounds like an updated 80s Cyndi Lauper, from the strong self-determining female perspective to the mix of synth and pop rock, mixed with the whimsy of 90s solo Annie Lennox (think "Walking On Broken Glass" and "No More I Love You's"), and a strong Taylor influence as well, especially the bratty sing-talky parts which Taylor started doing in songs occasionally from "Shake It Off" onwards.

Edited August 14 by MatiRod

[Smarticle]

[Frozen99]

8 minutes ago, MatiRod said:

Visually, there is a comparison, sure. Musically, I don't hear any Gaga in Chappell's music. Gaga has two big strands to her music: huge euro dance-pop, and huge rock-ish power ballads, neither of which Chappell is doing.

 

To me Chappell sounds like an updated 80s Cyndi Lauper, from the strong self-determining female perspective to the mix of synth and pop rock, mixed with the whimsy of 90s solo Annie Lennox (think "Walking On Broken Glass" and "No More I Love You's"), and a strong Taylor influence as well, especially the bratty sing-talky parts which Taylor started doing in songs occasionally from "Shake It Off" onwards.

basically, chapelle isn't really musically related to gaga whereas gaga and madonna heavily intertwined. shade were thrown here and there and the fans went in on it. has chapelle and gaga ever interacted?

 

regardless, it's nice to see the support and also the fact M and gaga found a way to be friendly. all i'd love to see is a collab!

 

[itsnotaegg]

Regardless if they are similar or not, I think monsters don't want to bring her down because we remember how it felt when other pop stars did that to Gaga in the beginning of her career 

 

I personally love Chappel, feel like she's a breath of fresh air in the pop scene, and she's very talented. Plus, Gaga shouted her out and obviously loves her 

[Janet]

Wow, that's a great question.

 

liddos turned out to be kindness punks I think

[HardBambi]

I love Gaga and always had from the beginning 

[єѕℓαм]

Well for starters didn't Gaga comment on tiktok saying she loves Chappell meanwhile Madge hated on Gaga and that plays a big role 

[Infernal Paradise]

Probably has something to do with stans trying to model their behaviour after their faves and paradigm shifts within the industry. We live in different times now. Gaga has made it unequivocally clear that she will continue to support younger artists across the board and I'm glad she's setting the right example (along with her peers).

 

Besides, when you know you stan someone who's truly inimitable, there's no room for feeling insecure or bitter. 

 

[Rino]

8 minutes ago, єѕℓαм said:

Well for starters didn't Gaga comment on tiktok saying she loves Chappell meanwhile Madge hated on Gaga and that plays a big role 

kinda true

also not related but if that's really you in your avi, you are so HOT omg

[Lil Mxnster]

I think there are two reasons: 1) Chappell's music isn't very similar to what Gaga does, and 2) Monsters don't have insecurities about Gaga's TABS -- we aren't afraid of a young emerging and talented artist  taking the spotlight. On the contrary, it's time to support her and embrace her quirkiness 

[Princess Aurora]

Meh. I don't think Chappell Roan sounds like Gaga in my opinion but there are some similarities when it comes to some fashion choices. However, Chappell reminds me more of Cyndi Lauper or any other 80s pop star. 

[Rihinvention]

I think it's because Chappell is doing something reminiscent of Gaga without explicitly copying her.

 

I think Gaga leaned too heavily into the Madonna comparisons with the Alejandro video, and subsequently the Judas video.

 

I think that was misconstrued as plagiarism. Chappell's doing something similar, but if you put them side-by-side, it'll look completely different.

[Mikeymoonshine]

Pop music fandoms were meaner then. Women were always being accused of copying, yeah that's still a thing in stan communities but it's not usually taken as seriously. Stuff like the Katy Perry lawsuit has lead to a lot more education on why a lot of songs sound simmilar. I think people are more accepting of the idea of being inspired by other work and playing homage to it now as well. Gaga went a bit far with the Madonna homage. She and her team should have made Born This Way like a sample or something. Madonna was right to take issue with it but she also didn't have to behave the way she did. The fact that both artists behaved badly over it lead to a fandom war that I don't think a lot of Madonna stans will ever get over. Personally as a Gaga fan who also likes Madonna I don't want to see a situation like that again. Older artists should lift up younger artists and younger artists should respect those who came before them. 

[Funnyfatty]

I heard about Chappel because of Gagas comment on tiktok. 
 

 

[dumbsparce]

Bc Gaga stans are still relatively young and crave the 2009-2014 gaga shenanigans they've been deprived of for a decade now so ofc they're gonna bandwagon the newcomer. 

 

Madonna fans do not stand for what registers as plagiarism in their mind bc as older and wiser they're very protective of intellectual property.

[Mr. Stratus]

Gaga set a good example to fans, whereas Madge never did and MNation had threads where they hate on other girls. You get WPs for attacking Madonna on GGD. They are not the same and never were

[The7thStranger]

I've thought about this a lot since that era, and I think hindsight is really beneficial here. Here's my take on the situation as Madonna fan who is now also a casual fan of GaGa (and owns a couple of her albums).

 

The two stars were in wildly different places, and their actions led to an odd All-About-Eve-esque situation that fans gobbled up. Until GaGa came on the scene, there was never any real perceived "threat" to Madonna's status as the matron of all pop music. No other performer since her debut managed to capture the nation's audience using the very same playbook. Lulls in Madonna's career were instantly followed by big success (Evita following Body of Evidence, Confessions on Dance Floor following American Life). After about a year of GaGa being on the scene, the conversation slowly turned from "Oh, she's a little Madonna!" to "Oh, she's the NEW Madonna. We don't need the old Madonna anymore," which ultimately led to Madonna fans and the older generation looking at GaGa and thinking, "But she's just a cheap imitation."

 

So let's look at where they were in their lives. Afer finding no success as an indie artist, GaGa had revamped her image --a new blend of glam rock, Grace Jones, and, of course, Madonna. She was hungry for fame, something she aptly dissected on her debut album. I would almost called Lady GaGa's persona something akin to a social experiment. How far could she take things? Madonna, on the other hand, was trying to hold off an inevitable legacy era. Hung Up was proof that she was still a hit-making force in the US, even if the follow singles were mostly abandoned by radio. And then we have 4 Minutes (we can debate over whether this kept her in the mix or made her look like she was only catching trends) followed by the wildly successful Sticky & Sweet Tour. She was also going through the very messy dissolution of her marriage, something I personally believe she really fought for, even allowing steadfast relationships in her life to atrophy in an attempt to keep the flame alive. I think the end of this marriage was particularly harmful to Madonna's confidence. And as we move out of the Hard Candy era into the next era of Madonnadom, GaGa has become a household name, both of her own merit and because she was being called the new Madonna in the media.

 

I think the tables really turned during The Fame Monster, when people where busy scouring GaGa's work to find all the people she had allegedly ripped off. I remember their being drama over Alejandro sounding like Ace of Base and the video borrowing heavily from Vogue and Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation, and I can remember Roisin Murphy calling her a knock-off as well. Many Madonna fans had also noticed a deluge of similar costuming choices. So we have resentment boiling under the surface because Madonna had seemingly been replaced by somebody doing the same tricks, leaving fans puzzled and angry.

 

Of course, this all comes to a head with the release of Born This Way, where GaGa's homage to Madonna had finally crossed a line. Also, there were many queer people at the time (mostly older ones) who felt she had usupred the "born this way" motto for her own use. As GaGa's entire shtick during this time was to garner as much attention as possible, it was hard for some to take seriously anything that came out of her mouth. In the end, however, that song ended up being a battle cry for many young queer people, and we have to give her respect for that. But then, following the infamous remark by Madonna calling GaGa's workd "reductive," fans were simply at each other's throats. Madonnsters wishing and hoping for GaGa downfall, and Little Monsters calling for people to kill themselves. Add to this GaGa's former creative team admitting to having copied Madonna intentionally, and you have an all our fanwar.

 

Of course, Madonna did not leave well enough alone by this point, likely because she felt she had the support of the public. By public opinion is fickle, and it started to swing back and forth between the two sides. Ultimately, with Madonna being twice GaGa's age and have a wealth of experience in the industry, many felt she should have been the bigger person. She was definitely in the right to call GaGa out for ripping off Express Yourself, but she took things too far when she mashed the songs up on the MDNA Tour (a moment that did not go down that well, if I recall correctly; I remember audiences not caring or just being confused by it).

 

But that's where things were left from my point of view until Madonna and GaGa took a photo together after GaGa's Oscar win. In the years since Born This Way, GaGa has really matured as an artist, a performer, and a person. And a lot of the insecurity coming from Camp Madonna, in my opinion, stemmed from the fact that Madonna herself was very unsure about her proper place, both at home and in popular music. She had just gotten divorced, ended her checkered acting career for good, and now had this new up-and-coming starlet that everybody was keen to replace her with. That led Madonna to severely overcorrect and leave her work wildly unedited, which led to some messy results (the unfinished MDNA, the overworked Rebel Heart, and, ultimately, the misguided Madame X). Personally, I don't think this really came to a head until her health scare.

 

At the end of the day, it was an exciting but awful time to be a Madonna fan.

Edited August 14 by The7thStranger

[mrpartyrocker]

because most madge fans are probably born in the late 70s, 80s and their mentality is different and you can't really impose them to be as open minded as a little monster 

[Windy Day]

because most of gaga stans are gen z and younger millenials with a completely different mentality and madonna stans are old, bitter and hateful

[MattieB]

2 hours ago, єѕℓαм said:

Well for starters didn't Gaga comment on tiktok saying she loves Chappell meanwhile Madge hated on Gaga and that plays a big role 

Regardless if its true or not, gaga sounds like a performer whenever she speaks, I never know when the act is up or she's being genuine, that's the difference between her and Madonna, Madge came from an era where she had to express herself to get to where she is today

[alexrex]

Liddos have been mean to the queen of pop, Ava Maxxx tho 

 

[toy soldier.]

1 hour ago, Rihinvention said:

I think it's because Chappell is doing something reminiscent of Gaga without explicitly copying her.

 

I think Gaga leaned too heavily into the Madonna comparisons with the Alejandro video, and subsequently the Judas video.

 

I think that was misconstrued as plagiarism. Chappell's doing something similar, but if you put them side-by-side, it'll look completely different.

Absolutely this, It really felt like Gaga was copying Madonna when she came out lol

She definitely played that up as well, like when she said Whitney inspired BTW and then it was Express Yourself pt 2.

 

She was so messy back then lol