news Dumb conservatives wrongly accuse female boxer Imane Khelif of being a man

[KatyPrismSpirit]

1 minute ago, bushwick said:

I have no idea what DSD is—I'm not a medical professional. But the OP's post (before they edited it with dozens of tweets) failed to mention the athlete's chromosomal disorder, which has created a confusing and divisive atmosphere in this thread.

You did not read my OP in full which is fine. I in fact did mention this part, I only added a tweet from Elon Musk that garnered more attention. 

 

My first comment literally mentions she is a woman and is being wrongfully accused of being a man tho? Then you came with a Quote from The Guardian mentioning her having DSD and insinuating i could be lying. That doesnt even have anything to do with the point of this thread

[Illuminati]

23 minutes ago, Femalien said:

If Imane Khelif has a disorder of sex development then that seems pretty unfair, and i feel that can be stated without denigrating her womanhood. Boxing is the one area of sport that deserves this extra layer of scrutiny because the fighters are literally going mano a mano. It's why combat sports have weight classes and all that, mismatched strength levels lead to catastrophic outcomes 

People who are taller tend to have an advantage in basketball, swimmers with bigger lung capacity tend to do better in swimming competitions, the list goes on. The whole point of competing is to show off your extraordinary capabilities imo.

 

I feel like without defining it very clearly people would just keep pushing for that to be the standard for everything and exclude people.

Just like how JK Rowling's transphobia now goes beyond just trans people, the goalpost keeps moving

Edited August 1 by Illuminati

[abelfenty]

She literally competed at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics and the conservatives didn't bat an eyelid then. They're just looking for something to complain about 

[bushwick]

Just now, swissman said:

but do you not think that the "conservatives wrongly accus[ing] female boxer of being a man" are not also failing to mention the "chromosomal disorder"? and is that not the clear point of this thread, to call out how conservatives are simply saying "that's a man! transphobes unite!"?

 

regardless of this "disorder", they are still calling a woman a man to promote their transphobic rhetoric. why is your concern more about whether an ATRL thread included this information fast enough, when it's there now, and when the discussion is barely changed having known this information?

Why do you think Imane was disqualified from the women's world championships last year? I don't like when conservatives latch onto transphobic goon fuel, but this particular event has more nuance to it, considering a cis woman was brought to tears.

 

[Hephaestus]

11 minutes ago, Hephaestus said:

The discussion around this is SO weird. According to conservatives everyone is the sex they're born with, but when people have characteristic that go beyond what's deemed "normal" they're suddenly transgender?

 

The funniest thing to come out of this is them acknowledging transgender people do exist though, which is something they always brush under the rug as "gender ideology" or "wokeness".

 

tl;dr: conservatives are a JOKE!

Adding to this: not "man punching a woman" (common rhetoric for this event) being an issue only when it comes to sports. What about all the instances of everyday women being assaulted, raped, killed by men? That never gets them riled up.

 

I'm once again telling you, conservatives are a joke.

[Reginald]

not #that author still chiming in  I had almost forgotten about her hateful ass, and her overrated children's books. 

[Aethereal]

Yeah I just heard about this.

 

[Hephaestus]

5 minutes ago, bushwick said:

Why do you think Imane was disqualified from the women's world championships last year? I don't like when conservatives latch onto transphobic goon fuel, but this particular event has more nuance to it, considering a cis woman was brought to tears.

Boohoo, so crying is what tips the scale now? She cried because she lost and now she's playing victim. It's as easy as that.

[swissman]

9 minutes ago, bushwick said:

Why do you think Imane was disqualified from the women's world championships last year? I don't like when conservatives latch onto transphobic goon fuel, but this particular event has more nuance to it, considering a cis woman was brought to tears.

Lots of people are brought to tears during the Olympics, I'm not sure how that should have any influence to the nuance, which surely does exist, but the use of which sounds very much like her tears are more valuable than the tears the other woman might shed, regardless of them being cis. I'd also caution to say that the dynamics of race are at play in the use of "tears" here, but that's another topic.

 

I don't know why she was disqualified from the world championships last year. Do you? If that is your point, then why was she allowed to compete at the Olympics this year? I believe the Olympics make people compete as the sex they were assigned at birth, so...? What is even your point?

 

If this has nuance, by all means weigh it out. I don't see you doing that, however. Instead I see you mainly nitpicking whether or not the OP included something which is there now.

 

 

Edited August 1 by swissman

[bushwick]

2 minutes ago, Hephaestus said:

Boohoo, so crying is what tips the scale now? She cried because she lost and now she's playing victim. It's as easy as that.

DAMN. So much for "believing women." You just straight up denied her tears and accused of playing victim.  That's wild, you're down bad.

 

The Guardian article actually included Angela Carini's quotes! 'I have never felt a punch like this'.

 

I think it's bizarre the OP is also missing statements from the cis woman in the fight: "After the second punch, after years of experience, I felt a strong pain in the nose. I said enough, because I didn't want. I couldn't finish the fight after the punch to the nose. So it was better to put an end to it."

 

Sounds brutal. 

 

 

Edited August 1 by bushwick
mispell

[Mocha]

it is illegal to be transgender in algeria and you wouldn't be able to change your gender identity on things like birth certificate...etc  

 

 

 

[Femalien]

14 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

People who are taller tend to have an advantage in basketball, swimmers with bigger lung capacity tend to do better, the list goes on. The whole point of competing is to show off your extraordinary capabilities imo.

Agreed. But I'm honing in specifically on matter at hand involving combat sports where you're inflicting physical blows on each other. Those other sports you mentioned don't implement weight classes because there isn't the same harm of injuring each other

 

It feels kinda unfair to allow a woman who has undergone a male pubescence and now possesses a testosterone-dominated system to physically fight a woman without the same development. On a anatomical level this is comparable to a male fighting a female, and normally letting a man and woman compete in combat sports would be unthinkable due to safety concerns. The only difference here is the social lived experience of Imane and I don't think that ought to supercede every other consideration for the matter, and moreover I don't think acknowledging her strength advantages is insulting to her lived experiences as a woman either.

Edited August 1 by Femalien

[family.guy123]

27 minutes ago, Buffy said:

Is there a reason why there can't be separate sport competitions for cases like this? Men vs men, women vs women, trans vs trans, other vs other, etc.

I think this is the way. But they should take every mention of gender, sex out of the nomenclature. Define it strictly by objective criteria so there's no room for debate on who competes where. 

 

The Olympics is about who's best. Not who's a man and who's a woman. 

[Trash]

2 minutes ago, bushwick said:

DAMN. So much for "believing women." You just straight up denied her tears and accused of playing victim.  That's wild, you're down bad.

 

The Guardian article actually said Angela Carini, the cis athlete in this fight: "'I have never felt a punch like this'.

 

I think it's bizarre the OP is also missing statements from the cis woman in the fight: "After the second punch, after years of experience, I felt a strong pain in the nose. I said enough, because I didn't want. I couldn't finish the fight after the punch to the nose. So it was better to put an end to it."

 

Sounds brutal. 

 

 

You keep referring to the loser as the cis woman as if the winner isn't one aswell, why is that?

[family.guy123]

27 minutes ago, Buffy said:

Is there a reason why there can't be separate sport competitions for cases like this? Men vs men, women vs women, trans vs trans, other vs other, etc.

I think this is the way. But they should take every mention of gender, sex out of the nomenclature. Define it strictly by objective criteria so there's no room for debate on who competes where. 

 

The Olympics is about who's best. Not who's a man and who's a woman. 

[family.guy123]

27 minutes ago, Buffy said:

Is there a reason why there can't be separate sport competitions for cases like this? Men vs men, women vs women, trans vs trans, other vs other, etc.

I think this is the way. But they should take every mention of gender, sex out of the nomenclature. Define it strictly by objective criteria so there's no room for debate on who competes where. 

 

The Olympics is about who's best. Not who's a man and who's a woman. 

[Hephaestus]

1 minute ago, bushwick said:

DAMN. So much for "believing women." You just straight up denied her tears and accused of playing victim.  That's wild, you're down bad.

 

The Guardian article actually included Angela Carini's quotes! 'I have never felt a punch like this'.

 

I think it's bizarre the OP is also missing statements from the cis woman in the fight: "After the second punch, after years of experience, I felt a strong pain in the nose. I said enough, because I didn't want. I couldn't finish the fight after the punch to the nose. So it was better to put an end to it."

 

Sounds brutal. 

Since you wanna play this game, care to explain why you referred to Angela as a "cis woman brought to tears"? What does that make Imane then, uh?

[bushwick]

1 minute ago, Trash said:

You keep referring to the loser as the cis woman as if the winner isn't one aswell, why is that?

 

Just now, Hephaestus said:

Since you wanna play this game, care to explain why you referred to Angela as a "cis woman brought to tears"? What does that make Imane then, uh?

Classroom time.

 

Let's break this down: I need both of you to explain to me how Imane is both the oppressed biological victim of a birth disorder affecting her gender... and also a cis woman? 

 

 

[Hephaestus]

1 minute ago, bushwick said:

Classroom time.

 

Let's break this down: I need both of you to explain to me how Imane is both the oppressed biological victim of a birth disorder affecting her gender... and also a cis woman? 

Birth disorder affecting her gender? 

 

She is born and identifies as a woman. What happens in her body is another discussion, one that the Olympics committee took into hands beforehand and decided that she's allowed to compete against other women.

 

Maybe you should go back to school instead of playing smart with topics you clearly know nothing about.

[Anthinos]

Western societies are really getting dumber and dumber. I can't listen to this whole topic anymore. 10 years ago nobody talked about trans, today it's a big "problem". Heterosexual people should maybe just leave the LGBT community alone instead of looking for a new group to mob every 10 years.

[swissman]

Boxing is stupid anyway.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

10 minutes ago, bushwick said:

 

Classroom time.

 

Let's break this down: I need both of you to explain to me how Imane is both the oppressed biological victim of a birth disorder affecting her gender... and also a cis woman? 

Her "birth disorder"  doesnt affect her gender… wtf is this post? Many women (up to 10-15% of the entire female population) have higher than average testosterone levels.

 

Shes a cis woman, BORN female assigned at birth, but higher than normal testosterone levels. By y'all's limited definition of woman she's unequivocally a woman right?

Edited August 1 by KatyPrismSpirit

[MonsterTown]

Elon's tweet has 1Millon+ likes damage is already done

[swissman]

it's interesting because I guarantee you if what the conservatives have perceived here was the other way around, if it were a trans woman competing in a male boxing category, none of those conservatives in the OP would be championing her, advocating for her safety, asking that she be put in the woman's category. why? because 1) that would then contradict what they're advocating for most of the time, despite changing their mind in this case and 2) they simply do not actually care about protecting trans people.

 

 

Edited August 1 by swissman

[Orsay]

The truth is, being intersex and having naturally higher testosterone levels may have given her the "physical advantage" people love to talk about trans women having in sports over cis women. Only… she's not trans, not born male, nothing like the bogeyman they've tried to create over the last few years; whether they're too dumb or too evil to recognize the difference, I'm not sure

 

The bottom line, then, is that people like JK Rowling want to ban all people on the fringes of gender/sex from participating in official sporting events. They offer no solutions, just a hollow "feminist" narrative being pushed often by the same people who want to take away women's rights over their bodies. Sickening and terrifying how rapidly these ideas spread on social media. And gays, after they come for trans people, just know you're next