base talk Taylor's legacy undermined by stans. Why?

[Trent W]

1 minute ago, futuresuperstar2023 said:

Beyonce would have never been respected if she didn't reinvent herself after 4. I am Sasha Fierce was beyonce most successful era and biggest seller and that still didn't make the GP respect her. Sales is not all that matters. I wish Taylor Swift stans would understand that but of course they won't.

Exactly, imagine Beyonce releasing 2 IASF replicas after 4 ST or Lemonade

 

When you are 15 years into your career and keep using the same formula is kind of a turn off.

 

Legacy is not only about numbers. Is only one metric

 

Is more about impact, artistry and showcasing your talent for younger generations to follow that

 

And Taylor is fighting with Olivia and Billie instead of influencing
 

 

 

[futuresuperstar2023]

2 hours ago, byzantium said:

You are still operating in the world of hypotheticals. Only one artist actually did it. 

Look this whole thread is asking why Taylor Swift legacy is undermined by stans. She has a 1 billion tour but still doesn't have the respect that she should at this point in her career. That's telling Y'all right there what it is lmao.

[elincomprendid]

12 minutes ago, Trent W said:

And Midnights was not perfect for her career, she could've released a more experimental album

People in the real world don't give a **** about more experimental music 💀

 

12 minutes ago, Trent W said:

She was going after 12 year old girls with the themes of the album, like an 18 year old.

Taylor literally has the most appeal among older generations among I would say all acts but specially females. Trust me no one outside of online forums seriously think this.
 

Regarding boths points the biggest complain is people saying she using complex words not the childish stuff, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Regarding whatever Beyonce did no one cares good for her but casually since she started doing all that her only public is the USA and people online. Cause again there is a huge world outside of those public's that do not care about "experimental" or how "childish" something sounds. They just want music they can relate to or have fun to or just enjoy, is never as deep as you all want to make it seem. And that matches the complex word issue much more considering said public is usually no native English speakers. 

[futuresuperstar2023]

2 hours ago, elincomprendid said:

People in the real world don't give a **** about more experimental music 💀

 

Taylor literally has the most appeal among older generations among I would say all acts but specially females. Trust me no one outside of online forums seriously think this.
 

Regarding boths points the biggest complain is people saying she using complex words not the childish stuff, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Regarding whatever Beyonce did no one cares good for her but casually since she started doing all that her only public is the USA and people online. Cause again there is a huge world outside of those public's that do not care about "experimental" or how "childish" something sounds. They just want music they can relate to or have fun to or just enjoy, is never as deep as you all want to make it seem. And that matches the complex word issue much more considering said public is usually no native English speakers. 

That's bullshit because in Brazil people love Beyonce lmao. Y'all stay ******* lying. Bey is an international artist and always have been. I really need Bey to have international tour dates because the clowns are buzzing.

[BussC,XOXO]

it's their way of coping.

[MissedTheTrain]

17 minutes ago, Loca said:

You can't ruin something that doesn't exist. There's nothing that makes her distinctive enough as an artist, and even less as a performer, to be remembered in the future. Writing relatable songs for little girls and 30 yo white gay men is not enough. 

 

Posts like this make me lol because....pretending she "won't be remembered in the future" is just pure delusion.  She's in the middle of a peak that we haven't seen anyone have in ages, and on top of that, she's almost been in the business for almost 20 years.  The demand for her stadium tour is insanely high to a level that others can't compare to.

 

If she's not for you, that's fine!  But passing off her career like this is kind of ridiculous.

[AvadaKedavra]

Overexposed and lack of evolution with these last records thanks to  antonoff.

Taylor would be 10x times more praised and more loved today without these situations.
This big hate wave is a more a recent thing. After Folklore she was very respected and loved i remember  cause that album was an evolution and she was more lowkey.

Taylor should take a big break after the next re-recordings. Then come with a fun and different type of record
She could regain all that goodwill from before. 

Edited Friday at 03:11 AM by AvadaKedavra

[Trent W]

21 minutes ago, elincomprendid said:

People in the real world don't give a **** about more experimental music 💀

 

Taylor literally has the most appeal among older generations among I would say all acts but specially females. Trust me no one outside of online forums seriously think this.
 

Regarding boths points the biggest complain is people saying she using complex words not the childish stuff, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Regarding whatever Beyonce did no one cares good for her but casually since she started doing all that her only public is the USA and people online. Cause again there is a huge world outside of those public's that do not care about "experimental" or how "childish" something sounds. They just want music they can relate to or have fun to or just enjoy, is never as deep as you all want to make it seem. And that matches the complex word issue much more considering said public is usually no native English speakers. 

People who are into music in general do care about growth, evolution and quality

 

Your post is giving "Im ok with her being mediocre as long as she remains on top"

 

With Taylor she can another 30 eras like Midnights, 1989 or TTPD and no one is going to care anymore because she's stuck in the age of 19 recreating the same era and debut week over and over again.

 

Her next album will be 100x impressive if she actually does something out of her comfort zone and quality instead of another failed attempt at surpassing Adele's 25 debut week numbers.

 

As a fan I want a good album not huge debut week numbers.

Edited Friday at 03:09 AM by Trent W

[HASHTAGPOW]

[elincomprendid]

21 minutes ago, Trent W said:

People who are into music in general do care about growth, evolution and quality

Well those are not the people that define who is or not a legend sadly for you! People that define legends are the masses not a selected group. And again Taylor has shown growth evolution and quality thousands of times lol

 

21 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Your post is giving "Im ok with her being mediocre as long as she remains on top"

My post is talking about how I don't define mediocrity by putting expectations she doesn't need to match. She is a pop star that based her music in writing music to resonate with people. As long as people resonates with her she is doing her job just fine.
 

And the most interesting is that people have been growing with her along and people over 30 years still resonate with her, how is this possible if she is so childish? Could it be that she is not childish? Could it be that people expect a maturity that is not real from adulthood?

 

21 minutes ago, Trent W said:

she's stuck in the age of 19 recreating the same era and debut week over and over again.

Oh yeah TTPD and Fearless are just the same!!

 

The funniest part about this is that the only 2 albums that are similar are folklore & evermore that are the ones you claimed were a step in the right direction. And if you find any other pair of albums similar maybe you are just not that much of an expert in music as you say you are…

 

21 minutes ago, Trent W said:

another failed attempt at surpassing Adele's 25 debut week numbers.

Once again only basing your opinion on internet people, Taylor clearly knew more than any of you all that she was NOT breaking that record. At least when complaining make valid complains please.

[elincomprendid]

32 minutes ago, AvadaKedavra said:

Taylor would be 10x times more praised and more loved today without these situations.
This big hate wave is a more a recent thing. After Folklore she was very respected and loved i

I mean she is also miles bigger than what she was already with folklore 

 

The bigger your reach the bigger your hate, I think that's more important than overexposure.

Specially cause nowadays basically everyone in the world knows she is the biggest artist in the world and whoever that doesn't understand why or don't like her music will always try to attack her giving a bigger sensation of haters.

[Trent W]

13 minutes ago, elincomprendid said:

Well those are not the people that define who is or not a legend sadly for you! People that define legends are the masses not a selected group. And again Taylor has shown growth evolution and quality thousands of times lol

 

My post is talking about how I don't define mediocrity by putting expectations she doesn't need to match. She is a pop star that based her music in writing music to resonate with people. As long as people resonates with her she is doing her job just fine.
 

And the most interesting is that people have been growing with her along and people over 30 years still resonate with her, how is this possible if she is so childish? Could it be that she is not childish? Could it be that people expect a maturity that is not real from adulthood?

 

Oh yeah TTPD and Fearless are just the same!!

 

The funniest part about this is that the only 2 albums that are similar are folklore & evermore that are the ones you claimed were a step in the right direction. And if you find any other pair of albums similar maybe you are just not that much of an expert in music as you say you are…

 

Once again only basing your opinion on internet people, Taylor clearly knew more than any of you all that she was NOT breaking that record. At least when complaining make valid complains please.

No one of the big legendary names is a legend for being relatable alone. They had to show extreme levels of growth, challenge social norms and have a lot of impact.
 

She has definitely shown growth and evolution but she has regressed in the last albums A lot.

 

And her current music is childish, her having some fans in theirs 30s doesn't erase that fact. 

 

Anyway so far she has a legendary career but she needs better music to become a massive legend.

 

If we erase sales and charts, her legacy is really really passed by her peers in many areas. 

 

[elincomprendid]

10 minutes ago, Trent W said:

They had to show extreme levels of growth, challenge social norms and have a lot of impact.

You think Taylor did not?

 

10 minutes ago, Trent W said:

her having some fans in theirs 30s doesn't erase that fact. 

"some fans" it's literally easily the biggest artist for 30+ artist by a landslide. And I'll value way more their opinion over what's childish and what's not than whatever you say on ATRL 

 

12 minutes ago, Trent W said:

she needs better music to become a massive legend.

She needs nothing more she is already one lol

 

12 minutes ago, Trent W said:

If we erase sales and charts, her legacy is really really passed by her peers in many areas. 

First of all why would you erase them? Second of all LOL.

Her legacy goes BEYOND sales and charts. Those are just a small part of the massive impact she had in the industry, but of course her sales and charts are so massive they seem to be blinding over others.

• Her impact on country music, bringing a girl teen voice, popularizing singer songwriters in the genre, expanding the genre out of the US.
• Her persona publicly sold as singer songwriter increasing the demand for little girls to want to continue a career in music and building a new matrix of the industry that focus on relatability and the experience of just being a girl
• Her standing up for artists rights in demand of streaming royalties
• Her standing up for artists rights in masters ownership
• Her kinda being the front face of Nostalgia revival in music with the eras tour and re-recordings (another massive movement in the industry for her)
• One of the first artists to use social media to establish a connection with fans, she was a precursor in seeing the potential it could have back in like 2006 lol
• 1989 reviving poptimism, which also in a way helps giving younger girls the idea that wanting to be a singer is a good thing extending that factor even more

 

All stuff you can easily see on today's mainstream. 

 

Non music directly but also:

 

• Nowadays she is giving American Football a much broader audience. Females and international viewers are over the roof since she started attending some matches.
• Helping making Ticketmaster ass getting more exposed thanks to her massive reach.
• Creating a new method of distribution for films with her first theater release

Also her impact in a smaller way but she helped so many artists jump to fame and specially gave a career as a producer to Jack Antonoff that is basically one of the biggest and most condecorated producers of the decade despite whatever people want to complain about him on online forums.

We all know that her chart & sales success is crazy and sometimes so big if blinds other things. But if you think it's only that well then maybe this is not the conversation you should be having

 

[Trent W]

22 minutes ago, elincomprendid said:

You think Taylor did not?

 

"some fans" it's literally easily the biggest artist for 30+ artist by a landslide. And I'll value way more their opinion over what's childish and what's not than whatever you say on ATRL 

 

She needs nothing more she is already one lol

 

First of all why would you erase them? Second of all LOL.

Her legacy goes BEYOND sales and charts. Those are just a small part of the massive impact she had in the industry, but of course her sales and charts are so massive they seem to be blinding over others.

• Her impact on country music, bringing a girl teen voice, popularizing singer songwriters in the genre, expanding the genre out of the US.
• Her persona publicly sold as singer songwriter increasing the demand for little girls to want to continue a career in music and building a new matrix of the industry that focus on relatability and the experience of just being a girl
• Her standing up for artists rights in demand of streaming royalties
• Her standing up for artists rights in masters ownership
• Her kinda being the front face of Nostalgia revival in music with the eras tour and re-recordings (another massive movement in the industry for her)
• One of the first artists to use social media to establish a connection with fans, she was a precursor in seeing the potential it could have back in like 2006 lol
• 1989 reviving poptimism, which also in a way helps giving younger girls the idea that wanting to be a singer is a good thing extending that factor even more

 

All stuff you can easily see on today's mainstream. 

 

Non music directly but also:

 

• Nowadays she is giving American Football a much broader audience. Females and international viewers are over the roof since she started attending some matches.
• Helping making Ticketmaster ass getting more exposed thanks to her massive reach.
• Creating a new method of distribution for films with her first theater release

Also her impact in a smaller way but she helped so many artists jump to fame and specially gave a career as a producer to Jack Antonoff that is basically one of the biggest and most condecorated producers of the decade despite whatever people want to complain about him on online forums.

We all know that her chart & sales success is crazy and sometimes so big if blinds other things. But if you think it's only that well then maybe this is not the conversation you should be having

 

I don't wanna sound like an OTH, from all the things you posted I really fail to see how that's impact in the music landscape

 

For example Beyonce made the entire industry change from Tuesday to Friday, and made popular surprise drops for a while, even Taylor did that after her.

 

Britney changed the entire music landscape when she debuted, again Taylor also was influenced by her.

 

Even Gaga in a smaller scale did that.

 

Your points are more of a standard celebrity moves rather than music impact.

 

I would say she has some impact in someone like Olivia but that's all I can thing about

 

You can't have impact when you are too safe.

[elincomprendid]

1 minute ago, Trent W said:

For example Beyonce made the entire industry change from Tuesday to Friday

This annoying lie lol, yeah definitely you have no idea of reality of music out of online forums lol

 

2 minutes ago, Trent W said:

from all the things you posted I really fail to see how that's impact in the music landscape

Well then id recommend you to get English classes cause reading comprehension is lacking 

[The Music Industry]

2 hours ago, futuresuperstar2023 said:

The point is Renaissance would have been 1 billion if she did more dates. That's facts lmao.

Except she didn't have more dates, so you're not living in a factual world but rather in a fantasy land. Hope that helps! 

[The Music Industry]

1 hour ago, Trent W said:

And her current music is childish

Ah yes, songs like Florida, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, Guilty As Sin, How Did It End, The Black Dog, The Prophecy, loml and Cassandra just scream "childish" 

[Cleanromantic]

Bitter jealous stans of other artists foaming at the mouth and trying to undermine bigger artists is nothing new. 

And I'll always lol at atrl's obsession with people being remembered in 100 years or whatever. You are not going to be alive, you're not going to know who is remembered and who is not, and people with a third of Taylor's achievements are remembered, saying that she's not going to be is foolish. But stans will use anything to cope... 

And lastly, ttpd is her most mature album .

[Trent W]

30 minutes ago, elincomprendid said:

This annoying lie lol, yeah definitely you have no idea of reality of music out of online forums lol

 

Well then id recommend you to get English classes cause reading comprehension is lacking 

No lol

 

You are just posting delusion.

 

Anyway imo she is a legend, just was stating some facts that most of her fans won't be able to digest.

[piotrert]

3 hours ago, futuresuperstar2023 said:

The point is Renaissance would have been 1 billion if she did more dates. That's facts lmao. To make it seem as if Taylor is this big ass legend that trumps over everybody in impact is ******* laughable.

so your assumption is that beyonce didn't have 6 sofi shows or 8 at wembley because she didn't want to make more money, and not because she doesn't have a demand to meet those numbers?

[dumbsparce]

4 hours ago, Atlantis said:

Okay?. Her cult really won't be satisfied until every person on earth thinks she's the best and most successful singer ever and it becomes illegal to criticize her.

What does Beyonce have to do with this thread though??

[cuteboyzay]

It's definitely not undermined and I feel incredibly RIGHTFULLY rated. I do think though that she's a legend no doubt, because around she's around the age when I considered Beyoncé a Legend, especially after Self-Titled. 
 

Like it or not Taylor has had some impact in ways, and she's always been a huge part of pop culture. She just does NOT have what so many other artist's have reached her height with WAY MORE against them. She's basically the definition of cookie cutter, and unfortunately her quality is lacking BECAUSE she knows that, and she sticks to it cause she knows what sells.

[Lemon]

Undermined by stans? 
 

And that is her obstacle? 
 

Some people truly live inside their heads only. 
 

Especially those who are saying Taylor's recent work is not close to folkmore. 

[Popboi.]

8 hours ago, futuresuperstar2023 said:

The point is Renaissance would have been 1 billion if she did more dates. That's facts lmao. To make it seem as if Taylor is this big ass legend that trumps over everybody in impact is ******* laughable.

Any tour could reach $1 billion with the right amount of dates but that's a naive idealistic thought. You say that as if RENAISSANCE only needed a few more dates to reach that, when in reality it would've needed DOUBLE the ones it had, and that's if those second set of dates had the same level of demand as the first (which is not realistic) - and even then, on paper would look pale next to Eras cause Taylor reached a billion with only 60 dates.

[Marry The Gods]

swifites comparing her to joni mitchell ive truly seen it all