celeb news Caitlyn Jenner: "I am a male - not a woman. Chromosomes don't lie."

[Illuminati]

9/11

[Illuminati]

33 minutes ago, dinorhino said:

I understand she's said problematic things about other trans people and whatnot but just viewing this in isolation, what's the issue with her saying that she's male? Because she's right.

She's a woman but she's still AMAB. Male doesn't equate to a man. But even more liberal trans folk who don't like her would still regard trans women as being AMAB. Obviously rude to call them male because many people use it as a synonym for being a man/that can still make some trans folk dysphoric referring to them by their biological sex but if said trans woman says something like "i'm male/amab and I'm a trans woman" how is that problematic?

If you want to pretend to be unaware of what this promotes, she also said she's not a woman (rather than not a female, by your logic)

[dinorhino]

16 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

If you want to pretend to be unaware of what this promotes, she also said she's not a woman (rather than not a female, by your logic)

I'm not going to hold you I read both the title and the post but for some reason I just stopped at reading the "I'm male part" and only looked back and noticed she said she's not a woman

 

I also said I understand she's had a history of saying/doing transphobic things but I was talking about it in isolation. I also don't think you understand my logic because I said being male =/= being a man and subsequently that implies you can be assigned male at birth/be biologically male and still be a woman (or other). 

[Punky Rooster]

 

[Velvet Night]

This fool again. Shilling for that which seems to destroy you. Unreal 

[shimind]

So catlyin jenner is regretting the transformation? i guess she misses the perks she used to enjoy as a man

[Illuminati]

5 minutes ago, dinorhino said:

I'm not going to hold you I read both the title and the post but for some reason I just stopped at reading the "I'm male part" and only looked back and noticed she said she's not a woman

 

I also said I understand she's had a history of saying/doing transphobic things but I was talking about it in isolation. I also don't think you understand my logic because I said being male =/= being a man and subsequently that implies you can be assigned male at birth/be biologically male and still be a woman (or other). 

1 hour ago, dinorhino said:

how is that problematic?

  I understood what you meant by that but it is always (and in this case also) employed to push the narrative that everything beyond chromosomal sex is just a delusion. As you said yourself, trans people are aware of what sex they were born with and what they were assigned at birth so why are we still pretending like trans people need to be educated on it

 

The person who told Caitlyn she is not a woman already knew her political views and that she's not some "woke" liberal "member of the alphabet mafia," he's not coming after her views on sex, he's not having a scientific discussion here. He's upset because she exists as a trans person.

 

The person who tweeted at Caitlyn already moved the goalpost, it wasn't enough that she agreed with him. Conversations like that, or what JK Rowling usually talks about only have one end point - forced detransitioning.

[Joesuxx]

The anger in here, her chromosomes are and will always be those of their assigned gender at birth. That's the case for any trans person regardless of wether they've transitioned medically or not. It's a biological fact, regardless of wether it's their personal truth. If she wishes to acknowledge that then it's her chromosomes, let her think what she wants about them and herself. 

[Hot Volcano]

So suddenly ATRL sees an issue in this just because the person is far right oriented?

 

What about her own right to express however she feels like?

[KatyPrismSpirit]

You are a murderer who killed an innocent woman because you can't drive. And making a mockery of that with this picture just shows you are a evil spirited disgrace.

[shyboi]

to each their own i guess 

[Erreur2 La Nature]

1 hour ago, Mr_campbell said:

She is allowed opinions. 

This is not an « opinion », Mr_campbell. 

[Suilen]

3 hours ago, dinorhino said:

I understand she's said problematic things about other trans people and whatnot but just viewing this in isolation, what's the issue with her saying that she's male? Because she's right.

She's a woman but she's still AMAB. Male doesn't equate to a man. But even more liberal trans folk who don't like her would still regard trans women as being AMAB. Obviously rude to call them male because many people use it as a synonym for being a man/that can still make some trans folk dysphoric referring to them by their biological sex but if said trans woman says something like "i'm male/amab and I'm a trans woman" how is that problematic?

The issue is that when she or right-wing grifters like Blaire White say that they're male, "liberal" people begrudgingly understand what they mean but bigots don't believe in gender in the first place, so for them that sounds like the admittance that they're men and should be misgendered, and the same goes for the rest of trans people. So instead of using their platforms to highlight the difference between sex (and it's not as simple as a biology textbook suggests) and gender, and many people are genuinely ignorant about that, they just perpetuate the misconception, which does hurt the community. And while trans people are very aware of their AGAB, not everyone wants to be reminded of it or considers it relevant to their current experience. I have no issue with a random trans woman saying that she's "transsexual" and "male", there are plenty of those. But when you're like the first prominent trans woman in the mainstream, you do hold some responsibility for what you say.

Edited June 2 by Suilen

[campelo]

She is gendered as a woman but biologically a male! At the end of the day she has to go to a urologist and endocrinologist and not to the Gynecologist, that's just a fact. 
 

I get what she said but it can come off very problematic and damaging for the trans community. 

Edited June 2 by campelo

[Mr_campbell]

1 hour ago, Erreur2 La Nature said:

This is not an « opinion », Mr_campbell. 

Quote

a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

 

[John Slayne]

4 hours ago, dinorhino said:

I understand she's said problematic things about other trans people and whatnot but just viewing this in isolation, what's the issue with her saying that she's male? Because she's right.

She's a woman but she's still AMAB. Male doesn't equate to a man. But even more liberal trans folk who don't like her would still regard trans women as being AMAB. Obviously rude to call them male because many people use it as a synonym for being a man/that can still make some trans folk dysphoric referring to them by their biological sex but if said trans woman says something like "i'm male/amab and I'm a trans woman" how is that problematic?

Male and AMAB are not the same thing. Afaik Caitlyn has completed her transition which includes HRT - which means her hormone levels are that of a typical female. Her secondary sex characteristics - less body hair, breasts, etc. are also that of an average female.

 

Chromosomes are not the only factor determining biological sex, not even the most common factor. Doctors almost never assign sex at birth based on chromosomes because they don't test for that. So while Caitlyn still might have XY sex chromosomes, that doesn't mean she's necessarily still a male. That said, I can respect how she identifies and don't really give a f, so if she wants to say she's male then whatever. But her view of biological sex is extremely reductive and to be honest yes it does play into a lot of transphobic tropes.

Edited June 2 by John Slayne

[Hector]

She is always insufferable.

[réveuse]

Caitlyn Jenner is a murderer.

[Bloodflowers.]

That photo looks like a meme already

[shoganai]

She killed a woman. The rest doesn't matter not even a bit.

[Forestboy]

When people realise that biological sex and gender are two seperate things 

[Raiden]

3 hours ago, Suilen said:

The issue is that when she or right-wing grifters like Blaire White say that they're male, "liberal" people begrudgingly understand what they mean but bigots don't believe in gender in the first place, so for them that sounds like the admittance that they're men and should be misgendered, and the same goes for the rest of trans people. So instead of using their platforms to highlight the difference between sex (and it's not as simple as a biology textbook suggests) and gender, and many people are genuinely ignorant about that, they just perpetuate the misconception, which does hurt the community. And while trans people are very aware of their AGAB, not everyone wants to be reminded of it or considers it relevant to their current experience. I have no issue with a random trans woman saying that she's "transsexual" and "male", there are plenty of those. But when you're like the first prominent trans woman in the mainstream, you do hold some responsibility for what you say.

 

 

 

 

But they didn't once — this is actually a shift of tone / or attitude.

 

These same right wing trans peeps did claim the word woman in the past. Now they are no longer claiming it.

 

Edited June 2 by Raiden

[Suilen]

7 minutes ago, Raiden said:

But they didn't once — this is actually a shift of tone / or attitude.

 

These same right wing trans peeps did claim the word woman in the past. Now they are no longer claiming it.

 

Well, for sure, but it's not like they have a gun to their heads forcing them to say that. Ultimately, they say what their audience wants to hear mixed with some pick-meism and I'm not like those other t-words. I do feel sorry for them in a way, as they're stuck in this vicious cycle where they constantly have to affirm they're not like that at the expense of their identity (and who knows what they'll say once things get even worse), but they also benefit from it. I know some people here will imply that Jenner and her ilk have to say they're male because of non-binary people or whatever going too far, but Blaire, for instance, makes videos on non-binary people and whatnot, without which nobody would've paid much attention to them, and she contributes to the issue by deliberately picking out bad actors and exaggerating/lying in certain cases.

[HRHCOLLECTION]

 

[Click Clack]