celeb news Pet Shop Boys shade Taylor "Where are the famous songs?"

[The Next Day]

2 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Old men think that the world orbits around them

 

For Millenials, Genz and Gen alpha she has a lot of classics.

 

SIO and Blank Space are undeniable classics

 

Also Cruel Summer will be up there soon, August and Cardigan are also getting there.

He argues that music classics used to have a far wider generational reach. You're arguing that Taylor's songs only reach certain generations, isn't that his point?

[Gossip_Boy]

9 minutes ago, Yakult said:

This wasn't even a diss, I don't know why some stans are being precious about his comments.

 

It opens up an interesting conversation about monoculture and the move from radio/MTV to streaming; hit songs aren't as omnipresent as they used to be due to the abundance of choice and lack of cultural programming.

I agree. This would actually be an interesting discussion to have but this is ATRL so…

[Katamari]

14 minutes ago, Espresso said:

None of those tracks are objectively on that level outside the UK except for West End Girls, barely. Period, point blank.

"barely"

 

WEG hit number one in several countries including the US what you mean  

[Orsay]

Not him doing the atrl'd "no classics" argument ndsjhff

[Mania]

I would defend him for shits and giggles but I couldn't tell you one PSB song title.

 

[Vermillion]

Just now, Katamari said:

"barely"

 

WEG hit number one in several countries including the US what you mean  

Cultural impact is a subjective argument that people go beyond charts to argue. The original premise was on WEG vs. Billie Jean but it's not important at this point and off-topic from their Taylor comments.

[MatiRod]

Blank Space deserves to be mentioned alongside all time great pop songs

[Trent W]

1 minute ago, The Next Day said:

He argues that music classics used to have a far wider generational reach. You're arguing that Taylor's songs only reach certain generations, isn't that his point?

Taylor is one of the last names to hold monoculture together

 

Boomers might not know her specific songs but they know her

 

It's unfair to compare her to acts from the 80s and 90s

 

These days no artist can be a part of monoculture but Taylor has managed to stay relevant to several generations 

[thequeenofpopmadonna]

This has been my exact point since a million years ago.

Outside the us, most people don't know her name, nor do they remember her forgettable and disposable songs. I challenge most people even name her song.

That's reality. But ny times and the media are making too much work to make her look bigger than she actually is. Maybe her team pays pieces for good looking articles. Pr job.

Edited April 25 by thequeenofpopmadonna

[Illuminati]

The MJ sneak really outs him. What was the last big song that he can name? Thriller?

 

There's not a living person on the internet who could escape 1989 singles, but even if she was a no-hits phenomenon, that would be an even more impressive achievement imo, sort of what gives Lana so much goodwill despite BTD being a decade old

[Shelter]

Currently bopping to It's A Sin 

 

[Trent W]

These men also come from a time were there were very few mainstream names

 

All you had to do was get a record deal and be on radio/mtv

 

Now you have to rise by yourself and staying relevant on Taylor's level is absolutely impossible 

 

That's why her success in the 2020s is a lot more impressive than artists from the 80s and 90s

 

She has 10000x more competition 

Edited April 25 by Trent W

[NEX]

58 minutes ago, Le Grande said:

They are right, and when I say she has 2 hits (Shake It Off and Anti-Hero) I get downvoted to hell.

 

58 minutes ago, Le Grande said:

They are right, and when I say she has 2 hits (Shake It Off and Anti-Hero) I get downvoted to hell.

Not the double post getting you double the downvotes

[Gui Blackout]

11 minutes ago, The Next Day said:

He argues that music classics used to have a far wider generational reach. You're arguing that Taylor's songs only reach certain generations, isn't that his point?

People in their 60s the 1980s would probably say the same thing about Billie Jean, they would say "where's his hit compared to Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles". It was a hit for young people, who are older now and still sing its praises. Likewise young people from this generation who grew up with Taylor's music will say in the 2050s that her songs are their reference of a classic, not necessarily Billie Jean. 

Edited April 25 by Gui Blackout

[Vermillion]

10 minutes ago, Gossip_Boy said:

I agree. This would actually be an interesting discussion to have but this is ATRL so…

Again though, he could have brought this argument on the monoculture up on its own instead of scapegoating her to make a point. The notion that she's forcing out others from reaching her level in the culture is absurd - she arrived and took off just before the monoculture was pretty much lost entirely, at least in the biggest music markets.

[MatiRod]

5 minutes ago, thequeenofpopmadonna said:

This has been my exact point since a million years ago.

Outside the us, most people don't know her name, nor do they remember her forgettable and disposable songs. I challenge most people even name her song.

That's reality. But ny times and the media are making too much work to make her look bigger than she actually is. Maybe her team pays pieces for good looking articles. Pr job.

That is not true in 2024  

[The Next Day]

7 minutes ago, Venice B said:

Oh I thought this was recent because it popped up in my timeline last week but it's from 2016 

 

https://www.nme.com/news/music/pet-shop-boys-2-1193909

He's also praising Taylor here

 

5 minutes ago, Trent W said:

Taylor is one of the last names to hold monoculture together

 

Boomers might not know her specific songs but they know her

 

It's unfair to compare her to acts from the 80s and 90s

 

These days no artist can be a part of monoculture but Taylor has managed to stay relevant to several generations 

 

2 minutes ago, Trent W said:

These men also come from a time were there were very few mainstream names

 

All you had to do was get a record deal and be on radio

 

Now you have to rise by yourself and staying relevant on Taylor's level is absolutely impossible 

 

That's why her success in the 2020s is a lot more impressive than artists from the 80s and 90s

 

She has 10000x more competition 

I would've agreed with you on the first post, it's actually getting harder and harder to compare the success of different people because of how extensive the metrics of success have changed. But you had to go belittle the success of PSB to defend Taylor against non-existent threats. Neil didn't shade her success, I didn't do it... No one claims Taylor isn't successful.

[Gui Blackout]

8 minutes ago, thequeenofpopmadonna said:

This has been my exact point since a million years ago.

Outside the us, most people don't know her name, nor do they remember her forgettable and disposable songs. I challenge most people even name her song.

That's reality. But ny times and the media are making too much work to make her look bigger than she actually is. Maybe her team pays pieces for good looking articles. Pr job.

This argument is so circa 2014, keep up 

 

Her global stats speak for itself, not mention her currently being in the middle of the biggest global stadium tour of all time. But yeah no one knows her outside the US

[Edit0rz]

He is right. Taylor is a bigger star than her music reflects. She doesn't have a single song that will be remembered outside of fans come 5 years time. I still hear What have I done to deserve this, It's a sin and Opportunities on the radio (XM radio 1st wave). Taylor does not have any songs that will stand the test of time come 30 years later. What is even her biggest hit? Shake it off? Me! Perhaps

 

[Trent W]

2 minutes ago, The Next Day said:

He's also praising Taylor here

 

 

I would've agreed with you on the first post, it's actually getting harder and harder to compare the success of different people because of how extensive the metrics of success have changed. But you had to go belittle the success of PSB to defend Taylor against non-existent threats. Neil didn't shade her success, I didn't do it... No one claims Taylor isn't successful.

I'm not shading them directly 

 

They are from a time were Record Labels chose what the public would listen, we don't know who the best artists of those times are because the corrupt labels picked whoever they wanted and pushed them.

 

And again this is nothing against them specifically but artists from these days who have success are more impressive because its 1000x harder to rise and to stay relevant 

[jqnetto]

he is absolutely right, streaming Rent to support the bravery.

[The Next Day]

7 minutes ago, Gui Blackout said:

People in their 60s the 1980s would probably say the same thing about Billie Jean, they would say "where's his hit compared to Sinatra, Elvis, The Beatles". It was a hit for young people, who are older now and still sing its praises. Likewise young people from this generation who grew up with Taylor's music will say in the 2050s that her songs are their reference of a classic, not necessarily Billie Jean. 

I think the comparison would work better if it was set in the 90s. Because Taylor has been active for almost 2 decades and Neil's question concerns the present. Shake It Off was 10 years ago. Does it hold the same weight now as Billie Jean in 1993? Or even 2003? I think that's what he's wondering about. I'm not entirely sure either, but I think there is a difference. Not in better/worse, but different.

[Bussea]

Oh, I actually have heard west end girls  they play it at my job all the time, I didn't know that was by them.

 

[Shelter]

14 minutes ago, Trent W said:

These men also come from a time were there were very few mainstream names

 

All you had to do was get a record deal and be on radio/mtv

 

Now you have to rise by yourself and staying relevant on Taylor's level is absolutely impossible 

 

That's why her success in the 2020s is a lot more impressive than artists from the 80s and 90s

 

She has 10000x more competition 

It's much easier in general to stay relevant now though and you don't even have to do as much. Back then you had to have hits or you would get dropped. They didn't have the reach back then, now you just have social media to do most of the work. 

[Gui Blackout]

Taylor's discography as a whole has always been more celebrated than one or two standalone singles, see: her streams and the TVs

 

Her catalog is her Billie Jean