ATRL Moderator MissedTheTrain Posted February 27 ATRL Moderator Posted February 27 Just now, dirrtydiana said: So people are “willfully dumb” for pointing out she’s not a good performer (choreography is not the issue)? No, they're willfully dumb acting like that's the only thing that matters for an artist. Calling her mediocre, "Why would you be a fan of this", etc, when dancing has never been why she's famous. She's a singer/songwriter that has made it big as a Pop artist, and puts on a fun show for people. A little clip of her performing a 2012 pop single isn't the be all of her musical talent. 1
dirrtydiana Posted February 27 Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, MissedTheTrain said: No, they're willfully dumb acting like that's the only thing that matters for an artist. Calling her mediocre, "Why would you be a fan of this", etc, when dancing has never been why she's famous. She's a singer/songwriter that has made it big as a Pop artist, and puts on a fun show for people. A little clip of her performing a 2012 pop single isn't the be all of her musical talent. Yes some people are trolls and people can like what they like but most in this thread are pointing out, and I repeat, that the choreo is not her only issue as a performer, especially of her price tag.
GraceRandolph Posted February 27 Posted February 27 17 minutes ago, MissedTheTrain said: No, they're willfully dumb acting like that's the only thing that matters for an artist. Calling her mediocre, "Why would you be a fan of this", etc, when dancing has never been why she's famous. She's a singer/songwriter that has made it big as a Pop artist, and puts on a fun show for people. A little clip of her performing a 2012 pop single isn't the be all of her musical talent. She's dancing horribly to a mid, immature pop song that borders on parody yet is held up as this bastion of the music industry when she is only moderately talented. Of course people will acknowledge this discrepancy. 9 1 1
PoisonPill Posted February 27 Posted February 27 12 hours ago, Kavish said: I think it's time people realise that she is not trying to be a dancer nor has she ever claimed to be. She said once that you don't have to be a dancer to be able to enjoy music and have fun. That was the whole concept of the Shake It Off video. Dragging her for her dancing is not understanding what type of artist she is. They know that. But she dominates every single metric and measure, so it’s the only way they can vent their unhealthy hatred of this woman. 2 3 2
Cruel Summer Posted February 27 Posted February 27 At this point I’m just wondering how many times people are going to like the exact same tweets and make the same exact threads go for ten-plus pages as if we haven’t all had this discussion repeatedly. Like we have had this EXACT thread go for a dozen pages each like at least three other times in the last few months. What is the point? What do some of you get out of your daily ATRL dot net announcement that Taylor Swift doesn’t impress you? 2
GraceRandolph Posted February 27 Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, PoisonPill said: They know that. But she dominates every single metric and measure, so it’s the only way they can vent their unhealthy hatred of this woman. Or... we are mad BECAUSE she is dominating every metric with mediocrity and we see the discrepancy before our eyes and are baffled at why, in 2024, this is held up as the peak of music/entertainment. 7
Where are you now? Posted February 27 Posted February 27 13 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Or... we are mad BECAUSE she is dominating every metric with mediocrity and we see the discrepancy before our eyes and are baffled at why, in 2024, this is held up as the peak of music/entertainment. Maybe if other artists had an ounce of the work ethic and dedication to their fanbases that Taylor has, they could also be on top. She didn’t become this huge by just dropping albums. She breaks her back and has given her life for her craft and career, while so many artists just drop the music and then disappear for 3 years. 1
hypnodemiluv Posted February 27 Posted February 27 dancer... nobody talking about non stop lipsync for a show with 5M+ income...
Jay07 Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, MissedTheTrain said: No, they're willfully dumb acting like that's the only thing that matters for an artist. Calling her mediocre, "Why would you be a fan of this", etc, when dancing has never been why she's famous. She's a singer/songwriter that has made it big as a Pop artist, and puts on a fun show for people. A little clip of her performing a 2012 pop single isn't the be all of her musical talent. Respectfully, as you are always very polite and level headed, what is her talent? She can't dance, as pointed out she is lip synching in this clip (I don't know if she lip synchs the rest of the show) so what is the talent that justifies this level of omnipresence? People point out her songwriting but what are these untouchable songs that make her worthy of this acclaim? Like, I could point to Lana's Fingertips and Kintsugi that deal with really raw, personal matters in poetic ways but Taylor constantly deals in platitudes and cliches when she's not whining about an ex or a perceived enemy. So what's her talent? It's not singing, not dancing, not a visual artist, not a notable songwriter. What is it? The truth is, she's a blond girl with blue eyes that has a conveyor belt of forgettable, easily digestible pop songs for middle America that are catnip for everyone who ever hated Madonna, Gaga, Beyonce for being too outspoken, too weird, too sexual. She's bland and unchallenging and that is her biggest gift and the reason for her success. That's fine but don't blame people for wanting more than the lowest common denominator and questioning why so many people are happy to settle for that. Edited February 27 by Jay07 1 9 3
Talento Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) Not a single word was sang Edited February 27 by Talento
duadududt Posted February 27 Posted February 27 she can't dance to save her life, we all know that but who cares at this point. I only care about the quality of the music so let's hope she'll go back to folklore level of quality instead of whatever midnight was
Zendayababes Posted February 27 Posted February 27 18 hours ago, False God said: All the people that goes to the tour knows she is not a dancer. They are not expecting her to serve choreography. What a dumb thread What are they expecting? Oh right, "stage presence".
False God Posted February 27 Posted February 27 Just now, Zendayababes said: What are they expecting? Oh right, "stage presence". To hear their fave songs live. Your fave Zendaya don't have a music career anymore so you won't relate.
TheLastChord Posted February 27 Posted February 27 I'm not really bothered by her lack of dancing skills or stage presence, it's really the fact that her backing track is so incredibly loud that it's basically lip syncing.
PoisonPill Posted February 27 Posted February 27 7 hours ago, GraceRandolph said: Or... we are mad BECAUSE she is dominating every metric with mediocrity and we see the discrepancy before our eyes and are baffled at why, in 2024, this is held up as the peak of music/entertainment. If you are indeed so mad about Taylor’s success and determined to prove your point that she doesn’t deserve it. I would suggest submitting smarter evidence than the same 10 second clips of the most intentionally juvenile song in her discography recorded 12 years ago.
dirrtydiana Posted February 27 Posted February 27 4 hours ago, Jay07 said: Respectfully, as you are always very polite and level headed, what is her talent? She can't dance, as pointed out she is lip synching in this clip (I don't know if she lip synchs the rest of the show) so what is the talent that justifies this level of omnipresence? People point out her songwriting but what are these untouchable songs that make her worthy of this acclaim? Like, I could point to Lana's Fingertips and Kintsugi that deal with really raw, personal matters in poetic ways but Taylor constantly deals in platitudes and cliches when she's not whining about an ex or a perceived enemy. So what's her talent? It's not singing, not dancing, not a visual artist, not a notable songwriter. What is it? The truth is, she's a blond girl with blue eyes that has a conveyor belt of forgettable, easily digestible pop songs for middle America that are catnip for everyone who ever hated Madonna, Gaga, Beyonce for being too outspoken, too weird, too sexual. She's bland and unchallenging and that is her biggest gift and the reason for her success. That's fine but don't blame people for wanting more than the lowest common denominator and questioning why so many people are happy to settle for that. That mod is clearly a swiftie which is strange to see as in all my years here, mods are supposed to be impartial. but anyyyywho, ugh I’m intoxicated with how perfectly you articulated how jarring swiftmania is 1 hour ago, PoisonPill said: If you are indeed so mad about Taylor’s success and determined to prove your point that she doesn’t deserve it. I would suggest submitting smarter evidence than the same 10 second clips of the most intentionally juvenile song in her discography recorded 12 years ago. Sweetie, if you like her and enjoy what she serves that’s on you. But if these “10 second clips” are constantly becoming viral, that should tell you something. Besides, they’re not needed to prove a point when the first comment on this page has 3 lengthy examples proving the same. With her playing instruments, at that, which is supposed to be her strong suit. 1
ATRL Moderator MissedTheTrain Posted February 27 ATRL Moderator Posted February 27 11 hours ago, GraceRandolph said: She's dancing horribly to a mid, immature pop song that borders on parody yet is held up as this bastion of the music industry when she is only moderately talented. Of course people will acknowledge this discrepancy. This is what I'm talking about. She is extremely talented. She's written songs since she was a kid that have resonated and connected with millions of people. She's gotten acclaim over the years for her craft. If she isn't for you, then that's fine, but millions upon millions of people are fans and see her talent.
P!nk Posted February 27 Posted February 27 I’m more concerned that she’s lip syncing a massive portion of that video. You can clearly hear when her live vocals come in.
ATRL Moderator MissedTheTrain Posted February 27 ATRL Moderator Posted February 27 6 hours ago, Jay07 said: Respectfully, as you are always very polite and level headed, what is her talent? She can't dance, as pointed out she is lip synching in this clip (I don't know if she lip synchs the rest of the show) so what is the talent that justifies this level of omnipresence? People point out her songwriting but what are these untouchable songs that make her worthy of this acclaim? Like, I could point to Lana's Fingertips and Kintsugi that deal with really raw, personal matters in poetic ways but Taylor constantly deals in platitudes and cliches when she's not whining about an ex or a perceived enemy. So what's her talent? It's not singing, not dancing, not a visual artist, not a notable songwriter. What is it? The truth is, she's a blond girl with blue eyes that has a conveyor belt of forgettable, easily digestible pop songs for middle America that are catnip for everyone who ever hated Madonna, Gaga, Beyonce for being too outspoken, too weird, too sexual. She's bland and unchallenging and that is her biggest gift and the reason for her success. That's fine but don't blame people for wanting more than the lowest common denominator and questioning why so many people are happy to settle for that. Songwriting is her talent. and you might disagree, but she is a notable songwriter. She's got acclaim from tons of critics, legendary artists and songwriting rights organizations throughout the course of her career for her talent. She knows how to connect with people. When she debuted, there was not any other Country artist (or in Pop, to be honest) that was self-writing those kinds of diaristic songs for her own demographic. Songs like Our Song, Cold As You, Mine, Dear John, Enchanted, Last Kiss....all of those were extremely impressive coming from a teenager (or anyone, really), and people have grown up with these songs and watched her evolve. She would not have the career she has solely off of the big radio hits she's had like Shake It Off and Bad Blood, there's a whole discography underneath those that have won over people. I very much disagree with you saying "Taylor constantly deals in platitudes and cliches when she's not whining about an ex or a perceived enemy." A few examples of brilliantly written songs that aren't about either of those things: -ivy -cowboy like me -marjorie -evermore -the last great american dynasty -this is me trying -peace -'tis the damn season -happiness -tolerate it -right where you left me -Ronan -You're On Your Own Kid And songs about love interests or being wronged by someone...what is wrong with that? She's written some fantastic songs along those lines like: -my tears ricochet -Would've Could've Should've And yeah, in addition to the better examples of her skillset, she's played the Pop game and put out many radio-ready Pop songs that have hooked in others. Some of which are very well written for radio Pop songs (Blank Space, Cruel Summer), and some aren't meant to be taken seriously but have still done their job. With all of these songs and the people who have connected with them throughout the course of her career, she puts on a spectacle show for those fans. She's never claimed to be a world class performer and clearly wouldn't be in the business if she didn't write songs (she's said that herself), but she puts on a fun show. And those 10 second clips aside, she does overall have charisma on stage and connects with the crowd extremely well, especially in the acoustic segments. You're bringing up Lana, who yes, is also insanely talented. She just doesn't play the game like Taylor, and hasn't put a foot in the Pop world. She doesn't have much (if any, really) mainstream/Pop leaning material that would elicit the kind of performances Taylor's putting on, and that's fine. Again, she might not be for you, and that's fine! But millions of people have a different opinion, and she's gotten the acclaim and accolades over the years to back it up. I just kind of wish some of you could respect the fact that she's not for you and not try to explain her success away. Music is subjective. 2 2
ATRL Moderator MissedTheTrain Posted February 27 ATRL Moderator Posted February 27 2 hours ago, dirrtydiana said: That mod is clearly a swiftie which is strange to see as in all my years here, mods are supposed to be impartial. but anyyyywho, ugh I’m intoxicated with how perfectly you articulated how jarring swiftmania is When it comes to the rules of this site. We aren't supposed to be impartial about artists. 1 2 1
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