celeb news Songwriter Tiffany Red calls out Beyonce for stealing writing credits

February 20

4 minutes ago, Mornings said:

Amazing! So she should theoretically have no problem doing it again. Those songs she actually earned the credits and the percentages, so let’s keep it consistent.

She doesn't have to write or work solo though. She prefers working with others, and there's nothing wrong with that.

February 20

Just now, QueenBLadyG said:

She doesn't have to write or work solo though. She prefers working with others, and there's nothing wrong with that.

but when isn’t giving people proper compensation, then she should probably reconsider if she actually wants to be collaborative with her art.

most good artowotk is collaborative, it’s so rare that someone can do everything themselves and still have it be dynamic.

artists usually collaborate with galleries and curators to help them. But if the curator claimed to paint a quarter of the painting because they’re showing it in their show, that would be a huge problem.

February 20

4 minutes ago, Mornings said:

but when isn’t giving people proper compensation, then she should probably reconsider if she actually wants to be collaborative with her art.

most good artowotk is collaborative, it’s so rare that someone can do everything themselves and still have it be dynamic.

artists usually collaborate with galleries and curators to help them. But if the curator claimed to paint a quarter of the painting because they’re showing it in their show, that would be a huge problem.

How do you know she isn't giving proper compensation? Do you have any proof of that besides online chatter and rumors?

If she was a "thief" people wouldn't be working with her continuously. Especially if the industry, which is small, knew for a fact she was a "problem".

Edited February 20 by QueenBLadyG

February 20

she has been accused of being a thief so many times. we need an fbi investigation.

February 20

Nothing new here.

February 20

23 minutes ago, QueenBLadyG said:

How do you know she isn't giving proper compensation? Do you have any proof of that besides online chatter and rumors?

If she was a "thief" people wouldn't be working with her continuously. Especially if the industry, which is small, knew for a fact she was a "problem".

Well considering we have demos from years prior to her recording and releasing them with one or two words changed. There is proof out there.

and also to get back to the video that started the thread, it’s all explained in there. People deal with it because they are following their dreams. It’s a classic story of artists trying to exist in capitalism and getting their ideas and hard work learning how to express those ideas exploited by people who think exposer can pay your bills. This isn’t exclusive to beyonce. But she is definitely one of the biggest names doing it. So the artist in the video is asking why beyonce wouldn’t do something for struggling black artists and change the precedent.

Also, there are known facts about people in the industry that are ignored by their peers and excused because of the power they have. It’s happened over and over and over again.

Edited February 20 by Mornings

February 20

27 minutes ago, Mornings said:

Well considering we have demos from years prior to her recording and releasing them with one or two words changed. There is proof out there.

and also to get back to the video that started the thread, it’s all explained in there. People deal with it because they are following their dreams. It’s a classic story of artists trying to exist in capitalism and getting their ideas and hard work learning how to express those ideas exploited by people who think exposer can pay your bills. This isn’t exclusive to beyonce. But she is definitely one of the biggest names doing it. So the artist in the video is asking why beyonce wouldn’t do something for struggling black artists and change the precedent.

Anyone is supposed to get credit for that. Doesn't make a difference whether you agree with the ethics or morality from the outside looking in on it. Songwriting rules exist for a reason. You change or add a word, you are credited. Those rules apply to EVERYONE. Not just Beyoncé. So?

She doesn't have to be the arbiter of change. It's ridiculous that just because she's a big name that it's all unfairly dropped on her lap. Songwriters that have such an issue with it should do something about it. It's in their hands. But to try and undermine Beyoncé and her abilities, especially the racist claims that she isn't educated enough to write, are disgusting and low. She's a capable and proven songwriter and contributor to all her material. We have far too many examples of collaborators in awe of her work ethic and involvement in each and every step of the recording process, and far too many people that continue to work with and praise her despite all the online chatter and claims against her.

Edited February 20 by QueenBLadyG

February 20

1 hour ago, Mornings said:

Well considering we have demos from years prior to her recording and releasing them with one or two words changed. There is proof out there.

and also to get back to the video that started the thread, it’s all explained in there. People deal with it because they are following their dreams. It’s a classic story of artists trying to exist in capitalism and getting their ideas and hard work learning how to express those ideas exploited by people who think exposer can pay your bills. This isn’t exclusive to beyonce. But she is definitely one of the biggest names doing it. So the artist in the video is asking why beyonce wouldn’t do something for struggling black artists and change the precedent.

Also, there are known facts about people in the industry that are ignored by their peers and excused because of the power they have. It’s happened over and over and over again.

The demos outline the extent of the changes. They do not prove improper compensation or inequitable percentages as you have alleged.

February 20

My last response in here:

If writers getting 70-90% of a song from publishing, and they are still broke, sounds like they are not writing hits. If I write for an artist that is on a big label, I'd be open to giving them 15% of publishing. The reason why I say this is due to the record label taking majority of the money. I remember reading about Celine Dion getting a percentage of publishing rights despite not writing. If I had a chance to write for Celine Dion in the 90s and she wanted 15% of the publishing, I'd say HELL YEAH. :michael:

February 20

LOL here we go again... the meltdowns already and it's only been a day :deadbanana2:

February 20

1 hour ago, Mornings said:

but when isn’t giving people proper compensation, then she should probably reconsider if she actually wants to be collaborative with her art.

most good artowotk is collaborative, it’s so rare that someone can do everything themselves and still have it be dynamic.

artists usually collaborate with galleries and curators to help them. But if the curator claimed to paint a quarter of the painting because they’re showing it in their show, that would be a huge problem.

Your analogy doesn't quite relate.

It's not that of an artist and a curator, but of two artists with different styles: a painter and someone whose medium is collage.

In the words of Caroline Polacheck, original writer of No Angel

"When the opportunity came up to write for Beyoncé ... I rewrote the verse lyrics and sent it to her. It had this minute-and-a-half-long instrumental in the middle of it, and I was like ‘I’m sure they’re gonna cut that out, and replace it with something else. There’s no way she’s gonna let a minute and a half long instrumental fly.’ They kept it. ... I mean, Beyoncé is a genius writer and producer for this reason. She’s so good at seeing connections. She took this rap that James Fauntleroy wrote for another song, and put it right in the middle of the song. And then reprised the verse from earlier in the song, and then brought the chorus earlier. She reshaped all of these pieces from other places to keep this instrumental intact."

Or, in the words of Rae Sremmurd, original writer of Formation:
"[Beyoncé, who wrote the verses of Formation] took this one little idea we came up with on the way to Coachella, put it in a pot, stirred it up, and came with this smash. ... She takes ideas and puts them with her own ideas, and makes this masterpiece. She’s all about collaborating. ... That’s what makes her Beyoncé. Being able to know what she wants. A lot of people don’t know what they want. ... They just want to put a little icing on it and bite it. But it’s really a process to make one of these great songs. It’s layers. Layers and layers and layers.”

So in this art analogy, if you created a painting and gave it to a collage artist, who then seperated it into pieces, adding their own elements in the process, and combining it with works from other artists, could you factually say that that the final piece is entirely your painting, and that the artist in charge of the final piece had no artistic input or made no contributions whatsoever to it?

Edited February 20 by swissman

February 20

All I want to say that her long stares into the camera are comedy gold & there are so many memeable moments. Bring on the GIFs!

February 20

18 minutes ago, swissman said:

Your analogy doesn't quite relate.

It's not that of an artist and a curator, but of two artists with different styles: a painter and someone whose medium is collage.

In the words of Caroline Polacheck, original writer of No Angel

"When the opportunity came up to write for Beyoncé ... I rewrote the verse lyrics and sent it to her. It had this minute-and-a-half-long instrumental in the middle of it, and I was like ‘I’m sure they’re gonna cut that out, and replace it with something else. There’s no way she’s gonna let a minute and a half long instrumental fly.’ They kept it. ... I mean, Beyoncé is a genius writer and producer for this reason. She’s so good at seeing connections. She took this rap that James Fauntleroy wrote for another song, and put it right in the middle of the song. And then reprised the verse from earlier in the song, and then brought the chorus earlier. She reshaped all of these pieces from other places to keep this instrumental intact."

Or, in the words of Rae Sremmurd, original writer of Formation:
"[Beyoncé, who wrote the verses of Formation] took this one little idea we came up with on the way to Coachella, put it in a pot, stirred it up, and came with this smash. ... She takes ideas and puts them with her own ideas, and makes this masterpiece. She’s all about collaborating. ... That’s what makes her Beyoncé. Being able to know what she wants. A lot of people don’t know what they want. ... They just want to put a little icing on it and bite it. But it’s really a process to make one of these great songs. It’s layers. Layers and layers and layers.”

So in this art analogy, if you created a painting and gave it to a collage artist, who then seperated it into pieces, adding their own elements in the process, and combining it with works from other artists, could you factually say that that the final piece is entirely your painting, and that the artist in charge of the final piece had no artistic input or made no contributions whatsoever to it?

What these people describe is the work of a producer and all major producers who reshape the songs so significantly demand publishing.

February 20

44 minutes ago, LegaMyth said:

My last response in here:

If writers getting 70-90% of a song from publishing, and they are still broke, sounds like they are not writing hits. If I write for an artist that is on a big label, I'd be open to giving them 15% of publishing. The reason why I say this is due to the record label taking majority of the money. I remember reading about Celine Dion getting a percentage of publishing rights despite not writing. If I had a chance to write for Celine Dion in the 90s and she wanted 15% of the publishing, I'd say HELL YEAH.

I mean yeah, but that’s a part of the equation here…it’s not the 90s. Writing for a major label artist doesn’t guarantee that it’ll be a hit (even if the song is good). So much of it depends on timing, label support, competition, virality, etc. And all of that is extremely unpredictable these days given how saturated the market is.

It was a toxic practice in the 90s to be asking for publishing, but under this economic climate + changing trends in music these days…makes the situation so much worse, imo.

Edited February 20 by professor2000

February 20

lol these allegations have been following her for decades, whenever she gets called out, it gets detracted quickly. people who actually write their music never had this happen to them

and of course her foot soldiers in here calling her a liar, whats new

that woman is a fraud

February 20

24 minutes ago, swissman said:

Your analogy doesn't quite relate.

It's not that of an artist and a curator, but of two artists with different styles: a painter and someone whose medium is collage.

In the words of Caroline Polacheck, original writer of No Angel

"When the opportunity came up to write for Beyoncé ... I rewrote the verse lyrics and sent it to her. It had this minute-and-a-half-long instrumental in the middle of it, and I was like ‘I’m sure they’re gonna cut that out, and replace it with something else. There’s no way she’s gonna let a minute and a half long instrumental fly.’ They kept it. ... I mean, Beyoncé is a genius writer and producer for this reason. She’s so good at seeing connections. She took this rap that James Fauntleroy wrote for another song, and put it right in the middle of the song. And then reprised the verse from earlier in the song, and then brought the chorus earlier. She reshaped all of these pieces from other places to keep this instrumental intact."

Or, in the words of Rae Sremmurd, original writer of Formation:
"[Beyoncé, who wrote the verses of Formation] took this one little idea we came up with on the way to Coachella, put it in a pot, stirred it up, and came with this smash. ... She takes ideas and puts them with her own ideas, and makes this masterpiece. She’s all about collaborating. ... That’s what makes her Beyoncé. Being able to know what she wants. A lot of people don’t know what they want. ... They just want to put a little icing on it and bite it. But it’s really a process to make one of these great songs. It’s layers. Layers and layers and layers.”

So in this art analogy, if you created a painting and gave it to a collage artist, who then seperated it into pieces, adding their own elements in the process, and combining it with works from other artists, could you factually say that that the final piece is entirely your painting, and that the artist in charge of the final piece had no artistic input or made no contributions whatsoever to it?

Yeah so look you can quote as many people as you want and pick apart analogies. But if you’re not writing anything, you shouldn’t get writing credits. Go ahead and split credits with producers etc, but not writing. And if it gets too complicated to know who deserves what’s then maybe it’s time to simplify.

February 20

2 minutes ago, MattieB said:

lol these allegations have been following her for decades, whenever she gets called out, it gets detracted quickly. people who actually write their music never had this happen to them

and of course her foot soldiers in here calling her a liar, whats new

that woman is a fraud

:lmao:

February 20

I don't think we should be worried as long as the Grammy AOTY committees know the tea which they do.

February 20

5 minutes ago, Pheromosa said:

A black legend your fave has been chasing all her life?

February 20

3 minutes ago, MattieB said:

A black legend your fave has been chasing all her life?

who has been caught chasing her multiple times? :lmao:

he has song stealing allegations too sweetheart, but she doesn't have his other allegations :foxaylove2:

February 20

8 hours ago, IBeMe said:

obviously but it's just not happening. People need to adapt to realities on the ground and the reality is, art won't pay the bills for a lot of them sadly. It may be a defeatist take but it's also a realist take tbh

I don't think it's fair to just "accept it" though, because there's an injustice in them not being fairly paid for their work. It's a lot of time and hard work, and given the amount of dedication it takes....it just doesn't pay off to treat it like a side hustle. At the end of the day, they need to pay their bills. Eventually...talented songwriters are going to give up because their hard work and talent isn't being nourished. Less people will aspire to make careers as songwriters, and the entertainment industry needs songwriters.

(And that's another whole discussion on songwriters being paid more fairly, artists taking undeserved cuts of their pay is just a part of it).

February 20

Beyonce and Jay-Z aren't the music king and queen we all hoped they would be.

It's sad, but that's life. :michael:

February 20

21 hours ago, Zefierce said:

I'm simply stating a common viewpoint.

Most people in this thread are agreeing with me, are they dupes as well?

A common viewpoint is that Taylor gets around, is that accurate? Or a perception of something that may not be fully true?

February 20

15 minutes ago, Mornings said:

Yeah so look you can quote as many people as you want and pick apart analogies. But if you’re not writing anything, you shouldn’t get writing credits. Go ahead and split credits with producers etc, but not writing. And if it gets too complicated to know who deserves what’s then maybe it’s time to simplify.

So you're saying I can provide as many quotes from writers who have actually have worked with Beyoncé, and can correct analogies so that they actually represent the relationship between her and writers based on again, actual quotes from people who have actually worked with her, and you still will just say the same stock thing that doesn't seem to have engaged with anything I've said?

February 20

10 minutes ago, Pheromosa said:

who has been caught chasing her multiple times?

he has song stealing allegations too sweetheart, but she doesn't have his other allegations

Yall and these weak comebacks lmao. You do realize if you call that man a pedo, your fave is a pedo sympathizer who dresses herself and her daughter as a known pedo

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