celeb news Songwriter Tiffany Red calls out Beyonce for stealing writing credits

[Dreajae]

4 minutes ago, bjorn said:

She doesn’t have to. And reason was because she chose to not work under those fraudulent conditions as all the other writers who just put up with being exploited so they can say they’ve worked with her. 
 

Beyonce is a BILLIONAIRE and her song writers are all broke af. 

 

***** ain't placed a song on nobodies album since Cassie and that flopped. And even before that her mess was weak.

 

The fact yall believe that bloated hoe had folks coming to confide and complain to her about Bey is laughable. Why didn't they advocate to put her on an actual hit album with "fair" pay? They cashed their check while she's complaining for a job. 

Edited February 20 by Dreajae

[heartlocket]

4 minutes ago, orange22 said:

 

What is the point you’re trying to make? Stop derailing the thread. B00TS still speaks highly of his experience of working with her. 
 

It’s not a mark of guilt to seek new (usually younger…) talent/songwriters to help bring her creative vision to life & keep an interesting take on them. In fact, it keeps her music fresh. 

[orange22]

 

[bad guy]

It’s always funny when people who have zero knowledge of the music industry try and gaslight people who…actually work in the industry and claim they’re wrong just because they like a certain artist  
 

I watched the entire video and just because she hasn’t written for Beyoncé doesn’t make what she’s saying any less valid. She also wasn’t dissing Beyoncé, her talents, her vision, or anything of that sort. She gave Beyoncé her flowers numerous times. What she did say is that writers for Beyoncé have felt she should not receive publishing for things she did not write. She didn’t claim Beyoncé is totally uninvolved, in fact the contrary, but adding harmonies or ablibs is more of a production credit than a writing one (unless of course she adds something new to the adlibs). Even then, does she deserve to get 20% publishing for a word change or two? Especially given that the majority of the work is done by songwriters who get paid next to nothing? Songwriters in these sessions do not get paid hourly or for their time at all. The music industry exploits these people. Nobody is saying this is a Beyoncé problem, not even this songwriter, so I don’t know why stans are getting so defensive about this. If you watched the video in full she talks about how ALL A-list/B-list artists (who don’t write solo) benefit from this songwriter exploitation and that there are way worse culprits in the industry. She just used Beyoncé as an example of an artist that has so much influence to change this dynamic but chooses not to. And again it isn’t Beyoncé’s problem to solve. But to act like her leading by example would not benefit these songwriters given her massive influence is kinda silly.

 

Also the NDA thing is very real and artists’ lawyers/labels impose these heavily on songwriters. The issue really is the system these labels have created where artists receive all of the benefits that the people that helped create their vision do not get to see. In fact, Beyoncé is a rare case of an artist that sees any profits from their work since labels usually see majority of the profit. Only a hand full of A-listers have that privilege. Some of the biggest artists have less ownership over their work than their labels do which is a whole other problem within the industry.

 

With all that said, to try and diminish Beyoncé’s career to “stealing” is stupid because ultimately it’s her vision that pushes her music forward. You can give a singer the best songwriters in the world and they will never be able to replicate the career of a Beyoncé, a Rihanna, or Whitney, or Madonna, etc. 

 

TL;DR: The music industry is an even more heightened version of capitalism where the laborers gets the crumbs while the “face” of the product and their owners (labels) get all of the pie. Songwriters should just go on strike like SAG-AFTRA at this point. 

[Zefierce]

9 minutes ago, Dreajae said:

 

***** ain't placed a song on nobodies album since Cassie and that flopped. And even before that her mess was weak.

 

The fact yall believe that bloated hoe had folks coming to confide and complain to her about Bey is laughable. Why didn't they advocate to put her on an actual hit album with "fair" pay? They cashed their check while she's complaining for a job. 

The fact that this is how you guys talk about someone bravely speaking out about being exploited by Beyonce.

 

Makes me wonder how you'd react to Sri Lanka sweatshop workers talking about their experiences making Ivy Park products.

[Frogger17]

Eh, I'm torn. She has had that Rob Fusari credit-stealing thing and other allegations, but she also gave TS Madison an undeserved songwriting credit on Cozy after Madison's lawyers requested it, so I dunno.

[professor2000]

I believe it.  And I’m at peace with it.  It was it is…it’s Beyonce. Lol.  

 

I’m more shocked by some of the other names she’s mentioned.  

[Mornings]

22 minutes ago, bad guy said:

It’s always funny when people who have zero knowledge of the music industry try and gaslight people who…actually work in the industry and claim they’re wrong just because they like a certain artist  
 

I watched the entire video and just because she hasn’t written for Beyoncé doesn’t make what she’s saying any less valid. She also wasn’t dissing Beyoncé, her talents, her vision, or anything of that sort. She gave Beyoncé her flowers numerous times. What she did say is that writers for Beyoncé have felt she should not receive publishing for things she did not write. She didn’t claim Beyoncé is totally uninvolved, in fact the contrary, but adding harmonies or ablibs is more of a production credit than a writing one (unless of course she adds something new to the adlibs). Even then, does she deserve to get 20% publishing for a word change or two? Especially given that the majority of the work is done by songwriters who get paid next to nothing? Songwriters in these sessions do not get paid hourly or for their time at all. The music industry exploits these people. Nobody is saying this is a Beyoncé problem, not even this songwriter, so I don’t know why stans are getting so defensive about this. If you watched the video in full she talks about how ALL A-list/B-list artists (who don’t write solo) benefit from this songwriter exploitation and that there are way worse culprits in the industry. She just used Beyoncé as an example of an artist that has so much influence to change this dynamic but chooses not to. And again it isn’t Beyoncé’s problem to solve. But to act like her leading by example would not benefit these songwriters given her massive influence is kinda silly.

 

Also the NDA thing is very real and artists’ lawyers/labels impose these heavily on songwriters. The issue really is the system these labels have created where artists receive all of the benefits that the people that helped create their vision do not get to see. In fact, Beyoncé is a rare case of an artist that sees any profits from their work since labels usually see majority of the profit. Only a hand full of A-listers have that privilege. Some of the biggest artists have less ownership over their work than their labels do which is a whole other problem within the industry.

 

With all that said, to try and diminish Beyoncé’s career to “stealing” is stupid because ultimately it’s her vision that pushes her music forward. You can give a singer the best songwriters in the world and they will never be able to replicate the career of a Beyoncé, a Rihanna, or Whitney, or Madonna, etc. 

 

TL;DR: The music industry is an even more heightened version of capitalism where the laborers gets the crumbs while the “face” of the product and their owners (labels) get all of the pie. Songwriters should just go on strike like SAG-AFTRA at this point. 

TELL THEM 

[Fleahive]

31 minutes ago, bad guy said:

It’s always funny when people who have zero knowledge of the music industry try and gaslight people who…actually work in the industry and claim they’re wrong just because they like a certain artist  
 

I watched the entire video and just because she hasn’t written for Beyoncé doesn’t make what she’s saying any less valid. She also wasn’t dissing Beyoncé, her talents, her vision, or anything of that sort. She gave Beyoncé her flowers numerous times. What she did say is that writers for Beyoncé have felt she should not receive publishing for things she did not write. She didn’t claim Beyoncé is totally uninvolved, in fact the contrary, but adding harmonies or ablibs is more of a production credit than a writing one (unless of course she adds something new to the adlibs). Even then, does she deserve to get 20% publishing for a word change or two? Especially given that the majority of the work is done by songwriters who get paid next to nothing? Songwriters in these sessions do not get paid hourly or for their time at all. The music industry exploits these people. Nobody is saying this is a Beyoncé problem, not even this songwriter, so I don’t know why stans are getting so defensive about this. If you watched the video in full she talks about how ALL A-list/B-list artists (who don’t write solo) benefit from this songwriter exploitation and that there are way worse culprits in the industry. She just used Beyoncé as an example of an artist that has so much influence to change this dynamic but chooses not to. And again it isn’t Beyoncé’s problem to solve. But to act like her leading by example would not benefit these songwriters given her massive influence is kinda silly.

 

Also the NDA thing is very real and artists’ lawyers/labels impose these heavily on songwriters. The issue really is the system these labels have created where artists receive all of the benefits that the people that helped create their vision do not get to see. In fact, Beyoncé is a rare case of an artist that sees any profits from their work since labels usually see majority of the profit. Only a hand full of A-listers have that privilege. Some of the biggest artists have less ownership over their work than their labels do which is a whole other problem within the industry.

 

With all that said, to try and diminish Beyoncé’s career to “stealing” is stupid because ultimately it’s her vision that pushes her music forward. You can give a singer the best songwriters in the world and they will never be able to replicate the career of a Beyoncé, a Rihanna, or Whitney, or Madonna, etc. 

 

TL;DR: The music industry is an even more heightened version of capitalism where the laborers gets the crumbs while the “face” of the product and their owners (labels) get all of the pie. Songwriters should just go on strike like SAG-AFTRA at this point. 

I wish I had the critical thinking skills that you do but my inner Hive sees red and refuses to try to understand a video trying to get people to drag Beyonce over baseless rumors. But good post.

[professor2000]

56 minutes ago, orange22 said:

 

I was curious why he hasn’t appeared on any albums since then…any tea on that? 

[toxicgenie]

Beyonce and JayZ are very powerful in music, so of course songwriters will bend over. It's not right, but its the power dynamics that exist, like she said. They have many connections, lawyers, and PR agents to cover up any scandal or bury anyone's career, so no expose will happen. But where there's smoke there's fire. So I'm sure many years from now more "little people" will tell their truth when they no longer have anything to lose or be afraid of.

[orange22]

Why do so many of Miss Thing’s writers find out they’re on the project the day the song is coming out? Negotiate them splits ahead of time *****!!!

Edited February 20 by orange22

[Katy.Kat.23]

10% of the publishing of Replay is what, a McChicken? 

[orange22]

1 minute ago, Katy.Kat.23 said:

10% of the publishing of Replay is what, a McChicken? 

In this economy…probably just an extra dipping sauce  

[Fleahive]

4 minutes ago, toxicgenie said:

Beyonce and JayZ are very powerful in music, so of course songwriters will bend over. It's not right, but its the power dynamics that exist, like she said. They have many connections, lawyers, and PR agents to cover up any scandal or bury anyone's career, so no expose will happen. But where there's smoke there's fire. So I'm sure many years from now more "little people" will tell their truth when they no longer have anything to lose or be afraid of.

So what about the writers that have been working with her and have sung praises when interviewed? Such as writing duo Brittany Coney and Blu June who wrote on The Gift, Renaissance, and other recent tracks? 

[FENTY.]

I'm a Rihanna fan and she uses them too but "writing camp" is such a nasty word 

[Fleahive]

8 minutes ago, professor2000 said:

I was curious why he hasn’t appeared on any albums since then…any tea on that? 

He said the Beyhive bullies him and that he has been working on his own album for a long time. Wants to focus on his own artistry. 

[Frogger17]

2 minutes ago, Fleahive said:

So what about the writers that have been working with her and have sung praises when interviewed?

What about them? They could be lying just like this girl could be.

[Fleahive]

1 minute ago, FENTY. said:

I'm a Rihanna fan and she uses them too but "writing camp" is such a nasty word 

Not to me. Writing camps show the artist is helping come up with concepts by hiring specific writers to help bring an idea or theme into a song. It's much better than being sent a demo and recording it word. 

[orange22]

Just now, Fleahive said:

Not to me. Writing camps show the artist is helping come up with concepts by hiring specific writers to help bring an idea or theme into a song. It's much better than being sent a demo and recording it word. 

Don’t they just record demos from the camp?

[KingJay]

Beyoncé being a thief? Gasp in shocked

[professor2000]

3 hours ago, swissman said:

Just because you choose to ignore what I said doesn't mean I said nothing.

What makes Tiffany a "reliable" person though? I'm not saying she's unreliable I just don't know enough about her to say that everything she says in her video essay is 100% true. What about the people who have spoken about their writing process on RENAISSANCE? Are they not reliable people? Only Tiffany? Are you just not going to believe anyone who says good things? Because if so, you're kind of functioning in conspiracy theories where any counter argument is met with the "well that's what they WANT you to think..." response.

You can call my assumption on how Beyoncé works (based on accounts of her actual collaborators) to be fantasy but it seems incredibly backed up by the reality of the finished products. You can literally hear it in the music. Hold Up is a good example where you only have to look at the writing credits to denote who basically wrote what.

 

 

She’s been in the industry for years and has an organization called “100 percenters” that advocates for songwriters (lobbying in DC as it relates to publishing, copyright law, etc).  https://www.the100percenters.com
 

She’s a pretty legit person in the industry (in general).  Now, I can’t say how much she knows about Bey specifically.  But given she’s a key player in the pub/writing world beyond just writing for artists, she’s pretty well-connected (other writers, publishers, execs/managers, etc).  I’m sure she has heard stories. 

Just wanted to say that one bit.  She’s not a random spewing hate online.  I work in the business and have heard of her.  

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by professor2000

[Bacardo Royale]

The Beyhive are SCRAMBLING with the excuses 

 

[JonginBey]

Yawn.

[Ari29]

6 hours ago, GraceRandolph said:

Why should B get 25% of a song she wrote 0% of? 

If the artist doesn’t record the song, is there even any money to be split?