The7thStranger Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, perfillusion said: She was even sued in the early 90s by three of the dancers who were in the Vogue video. Just wanted to add a little context here for the other users. She was sued over a clause in the dancers' contract that had to do with Truth or Dare. Gabriel unfortunately passed away from AIDS (Madonna pays tribute to him on The Celebration Tour), but the other two, Oliver and Kevin, have come out and said they think it was a major misunderstanding between their representatives. In fact, there's at least one or two clips of Kevin saying that they've somewhat made amends, as they've run into each other a few times over the years. And Madonna recently danced with José Xtravaganza at a Pride Event. The worst thing she did was out Gabriel by refusing to remove the kissing scene from Truth or Dare. And while it was a heinous thing to do, I would argue that the rules for outing in 1990 were not anywhere close to as established as they are now. And also, the cameras were on them 24/7, and there's a lot of mystery around how much the dancers knew about what would become Truth or Dare. There are conflicting reports coming from literally anybody who was involved in that movie. 1
SupremeGoddess Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 6 hours ago, perfillusion said: Vogue is the best song. It's also the most problematic. Literally a rich, privileged white woman slapping her name and face on ballroom culture and appropriating it in her own image. She would get SKEWERED if she did this today, lucky for her it happened before most of us were born. She was even sued in the early 90s by three of the dancers who were in the Vogue video. She settled out of court. and a straight cis white woman singing she’s not a drag she’s just a queen would fly nowadays? get out of here your madonna hate boner is weird specially considering gaga wouldn’t exist without madonna but to each their own i guess 1 1
Raptus Posted December 1, 2023 Author Posted December 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, SupremeGoddess said: and a straight cis white woman singing she’s not a drag she’s just a queen would fly nowadays? get out of here your madonna hate boner is weird specially considering gaga wouldn’t exist without madonna but to each their own i guess and: You're Black, white, beige, chola descent You're Lebanese, you're Orient 3
aesthetic bih Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 Vogue > BTW >>>> YNTCD (I'm saying this as a Taylor stan)
spiritboy Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 Unless you lived in 90s, whatever you write here doesn't mean a thing. We have lived the era and it wasn't good time to be a LGBT community. Madonna has always been a champion for AIDS and LGBT rights, even before she got famous. With Vogue, she brought ballroom culture to mainstream which was a huge thing to do and was unheard of from a star of her calibre. So NO, you just don't compare Madonna to younger girls, she's been fighting for our team long before Gaga or other girls were born. What Gaga is doing great for new generation is great though, i applaud her for her activism. 4 3
Jay07 Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) Madonna wasn't sued over Vogue, stop trying to distort facts as usual. The facts are that she took Jose and Luis on tour, included them in the Vogue video, Truth or Dare and the extremely high profile Vogue performance at the VMAs. She basically gave them their career. More facts: Madonna supported and allied with the gay community at the height of the AIDS epidemic, when the government was letting people die without doing anything and being connected to that could be a career death knell. She did that because of courage and conviction. No one knew what cultural appropriation was in 1990, stop trying to frame the past through the lens of the present for petty stan wars. The fact is Madonna saw artists she admired and popularized their art form, while giving a spotlight and tremendous opportunities to members of the community. More facts? Today, Madonna has dedicated huge parts of her concert to the friends she lost to AIDS, her allyship to the LGBTQ+ community and her admiration and love for ballroom culture, still giving back and spotlighting the originators on tour. Meanwhile in 2011, over 20 years later: You're Black, white, beige, chola descent You're Lebanese, you're Orient Don't even dare point the finger, Madonna has been talking the talk and walking the walk for 40 years when Lady Gaga has to be bullied to even make a statement during Pride month so as not to upset the movie studios and her new conservative base. Edited December 4, 2023 by Jay07 1 7 1
Santhosh Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 20 hours ago, JennyWayne said: Notice how LGBTQ+ acceptance has been declining since 2019 I see some causation here Wait
kimberly Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 YNTCD is more important for queer history because it made many people homophobic. 1 3
Mystic Boy Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, kimberly said: YNTCD is more important for queer history because it made many people homophobic. I'm sure her stans think this ridiculously embarrassing line is pure genius 1
dumbsparce Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 YNTCD cured AIDS and made all trans people transition to their desired gender in the blink of an eye so that. 1
ronelmaano13 Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 Why is YNTCD there? Some LGBT Swifties hate that song.
Bosque Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Mystic Boy said: I'm sure her stans think this ridiculously embarrassing line is pure genius No Swiftie likes this song or has ever called it a great LGBT anthem. The way you now have to resort to literally inventing stuff in your head to “drag” her.
perfillusion Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 14 hours ago, Jay07 said: Madonna wasn't sued over Vogue, stop trying to distort facts as usual. The facts are that she took Jose and Luis on tour, included them in the Vogue video, Truth or Dare and the extremely high profile Vogue performance at the VMAs. She basically gave them their career. More facts: Madonna supported and allied with the gay community at the height of the AIDS epidemic, when the government was letting people die without doing anything and being connected to that could be a career death knell. She did that because of courage and conviction. No one knew what cultural appropriation was in 1990, stop trying to frame the past through the lens of the present for petty stan wars. The fact is Madonna saw artists she admired and popularized their art form, while giving a spotlight and tremendous opportunities to members of the community. More facts? Today, Madonna has dedicated huge parts of her concert to the friends she lost to AIDS, her allyship to the LGBTQ+ community and her admiration and love for ballroom culture, still giving back and spotlighting the originators on tour. Meanwhile in 2011, over 20 years later: You're Black, white, beige, chola descent You're Lebanese, you're Orient Don't even dare point the finger, Madonna has been talking the talk and walking the walk for 40 years when others have to be bullied to even make a statement during Pride month so as not to upset their conservative base. Not a lecture on popstars and gay rights from a Britney Spears stan whose only contribution to the fight has been saying "gays are somewhat girls" and that's IT. And not a Britney Spears stan talking about not upsetting conservative fans when she sat there chewing her gum and told Americans "we need to support Bush" during his most heinous war crimes just so her career wouldn't suffer. Anyway Vogue is the best song on the list but also the most problematic and Madonna is hugely disingenuous. 1 5
Mystic Boy Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 1 hour ago, perfillusion said: Not a lecture on popstars and gay rights from a Britney Spears stan whose only contribution to the fight has been saying "gays are somewhat girls" and that's IT. And not a Britney Spears stan talking about not upsetting conservative fans when she sat there chewing her gum and told Americans "we need to support Bush" during his most heinous war crimes just so her career wouldn't suffer.
Mystic Boy Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Dephira said: No Swiftie likes this song or has ever called it a great LGBT anthem. The way you now have to resort to literally inventing stuff in your head to “drag” her. You Swifties take these stuff way too seriously, it's getting weird
JackOfHearts Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 Vogue and Born This Way seem to be the most impactful for their respective generations, which makes a lot of sense. That being said, one probably wouldn’t have ever existed without the other? I voted for BTW tho, as it impacted me more than Vogue did. The third one made me a little homophonic I think. 😬
Geraldine Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 Vogue BTW was forgotten the year it was released and YNTCD the day it was released
Mr. Stratus Posted December 2, 2023 Posted December 2, 2023 17 hours ago, Jay07 said: Madonna wasn't sued over Vogue, stop trying to distort facts as usual. The facts are that she took Jose and Luis on tour, included them in the Vogue video, Truth or Dare and the extremely high profile Vogue performance at the VMAs. She basically gave them their career. More facts: Madonna supported and allied with the gay community at the height of the AIDS epidemic, when the government was letting people die without doing anything and being connected to that could be a career death knell. She did that because of courage and conviction. No one knew what cultural appropriation was in 1990, stop trying to frame the past through the lens of the present for petty stan wars. The fact is Madonna saw artists she admired and popularized their art form, while giving a spotlight and tremendous opportunities to members of the community. More facts? Today, Madonna has dedicated huge parts of her concert to the friends she lost to AIDS, her allyship to the LGBTQ+ community and her admiration and love for ballroom culture, still giving back and spotlighting the originators on tour. Meanwhile in 2011, over 20 years later: You're Black, white, beige, chola descent You're Lebanese, you're Orient Don't even dare point the finger, Madonna has been talking the talk and walking the walk for 40 years when others have to be bullied to even make a statement during Pride month so as not to upset their conservative base. 20 years later, Gaga did it and did it better. There's no other billboard #1 with such heavy lgbtq rhetoric and the words 'trans, gay, lesbian' - ill say it again: this is a billboard #1. She used her power to make this thing go mainstream. Lets not forget that attitudes to gay marriage in America did change post 2011.... i wonder why And your other faves contribution to the convo? a will.i.am song that parodied rupaul 'werk b*tch!!' ot: BORN THIS WAY BABY 1 4
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