base talk More important for queer history - Vogue vs. Born this way vs. You need to calm down?

[Tovitov]

While I agree that the answer is Vouge, people shouldnt discount the effects BTW had. While the overall attitude of the west was already changing to be more accepting of queer people by 2011, BTW really felt like Gaga smashing that last glass wall that was preventing pop culture and celeberties from really embracing LGBT+ people and culture. For most of the early 2000s, celeberties regularly tip toe'd around the topic with subtle, supportive platitudes. Maybe a shout out in a lyric or some representation in a video, but never enough to piss people off, atleast not enough to hurt their sales. 

[Big Bad Wolf]

Released in order from most to least I fear 

[Enrique523]

4 hours ago, ultraviolence.xx said:

im convinced all BTW voters are trolling

I'm convinced they're not, and that's the scary part 

[Alexz]

Vogue.

[Mystic Boy]

Both BTW and Vogue impacted the community in different ways.If you can't see the different nuances then YOU are the problem not the BTW voters

[Great808]

Yeah BTW by a long shot lmao. Ppl were coming out left and right when that song came out not to mention how in your face BTW with the gay stuff. Vogue wasn’t doing that lol. 

[spree]

8 minutes ago, Great808 said:

Yeah BTW by a long shot lmao. Ppl were coming out left and right when that song came out not to mention how in your face BTW with the gay stuff. Vogue wasn’t doing that lol. 

and how old are you?

[SupremeGoddess]

33 minutes ago, Great808 said:

Yeah BTW by a long shot lmao. Ppl were coming out left and right when that song came out not to mention how in your face BTW with the gay stuff. Vogue wasn’t doing that lol. 

Vogue was released during the AIDS crisis where the community was being vilified, attacked, KILLED, ignored and left for dead (legitimately left to die in hospitals without proper medical assistance or care had it not been for lesbian nurses a lot of patients with aids would have died alone without seeing their loved ones) so i’m sorry nobody was coming out just because of Vogue

 

but in reality, someone did come out to vogue

 

 

 

[BrandNewBrandon]

5 hours ago, Danny789 said:

Vogue is the only one that applies. 

While I do agree Vogue was the most innovative, you're downplaying BTW's impact.

 

Gaga was GIGANTIC in 2011, the biggest popstar and one of the most famous females and THE most talked about female in the industry. She put out a song that blatantly had the words GAY, BI and TRANS in the lyrics which blasted through the airwaves in every single country in the world, even the intolerant ones. She could do that because it was the lead single of her first post-The Fame era album and had as much hype as Adele's Hello. So for her to do that and spread the message across the globe in ways rarely seen definitely helped the LGBTQ+ community and I feel like homosexuality has since been embraced even further in the media and publicly, even in conservative countries because other stars followed as well. Vogue paved the way for BTW but BTW has had a big impact as well. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by BrandNewBrandon

[Great808]

57 minutes ago, spree said:

and how old are you?

Not 50. 
 

30 minutes ago, SupremeGoddess said:

Vogue was released during the AIDS crisis where the community was being vilified, attacked, KILLED, ignored and left for dead (legitimately left to die in hospitals without proper medical assistance or care had it not been for lesbian nurses a lot of patients with aids would have died alone without seeing their loved ones) so i’m sorry nobody was coming out just because of Vogue

 

but in reality, someone did come out to vogue

 

 

 

Yeah that’s something and I say that as a fan of both but BTW had more of an impact is all. What Madonna should have done was put something like BTW DURING while this was happening, now that would have been something. 
 

BTW is the song of the month every June and while Vogue is blasting as well it’s not on the same caliber as BTW is. 
 

LGBT was more so used as an aesthetic for the video while LGBT is the main focus of the BTW song. 

[spree]

3 minutes ago, Great808 said:

and while Vogue is blasting

and has been blasting for 33 years, and 21 years more than BTW.  You act as tho those 21 years mean nothing.  It's literally DOUBLE the lifespan of BTW. 

[Bethenny Frankel]

I feel like Express Yourself has done more than Vogue, but BTW is better.

[truthteller]

you need to calm down being the token third party...  

Edited December 1, 2023 by truthteller

[Marianah Adkins]

Vogue and BTW are true gay classics in that they were released at a time when there was nothing like it. Vogue introduced a gay cultural practice into the mainstream whereas BTW is honestly the first in your face gay pride song. With this songs, it was clear they took a strong stand. (I would also include Express Yourself here since thats another gay classic that is associated with Madge).

 

The other one represented the advent of pinkwashing and commercialization of social justice issues for profit. And the impact has been bad for the community (increasing homophobia, associating queerness with corporatism).

[Elusive Chanteuse]

Are y'all serious on here?

[Apolonio ₃₄]

The literal sneak.  

[LosingHimWasBlue]

vogue. 

 

and Taylor doesn't made music for gays, so idc. Madonna can take it

Edited December 1, 2023 by LosingHimWasBlue

[FailSafe]

You Need To Calm Down

 

[Raspberries]

Vogue, sweetie.....

[perfillusion]

Vogue is the best song. 

 

It's also the most problematic. 

 

Literally a rich, privileged white woman slapping her name and face on ballroom culture and appropriating it in her own image. 

 

She would get SKEWERED if she did this today, lucky for her it happened before most of us were born. She was even sued in the early 90s by three of the dancers who were in the Vogue video.

 

She settled out of court.

[Raptus]

32 minutes ago, perfillusion said:

Vogue is the best song. 

 

It's also the most problematic. 

 

Literally a rich, privileged white woman slapping her name and face on ballroom culture and appropriating it in her own image. 

 

She would get SKEWERED if she did this today, lucky for her it happened before most of us were born. She was even sued in the early 90s by three of the dancers who were in the Vogue video.

 

She settled out of court.

Homophobia exist for people like you 

 

[Mystic Boy]

5 hours ago, Bethenny Frankel said:

I feel like Express Yourself has done more than Vogue

Totally agree.

[Asscatchem]

not all these straight white women being attributed for queer history

[GraceRandolph]

Murder On The Dancefloor by Sophie Ellis-Bextor clears.

[The7thStranger]

7 hours ago, Great808 said:

Not 50. 
 

Yeah that’s something and I say that as a fan of both but BTW had more of an impact is all. What Madonna should have done was put something like BTW DURING while this was happening, now that would have been something. 
 

BTW is the song of the month every June and while Vogue is blasting as well it’s not on the same caliber as BTW is. 
 

LGBT was more so used as an aesthetic for the video while LGBT is the main focus of the BTW song. 

The documentary Strike a Pose begs to differ. It's not just about Vogue, but about that entire era. For many young kids, Vogue and Truth or Dare were the first time they saw themselves on TV and in a movie. All of the dancers, including the two who conceived Vogue and choreographed both the video and the stage version, still receive letters to this day from fans because of this.

 

 

I'm all for giving GaGa her due, as I know that Born This Way did a lot for queer youth at the time. I personally don't like the message in that song, but that's just how I interpret it.

 

What I don't accept is the younger generation, who does not fully understand just how invisible gay people were in the 1990s, trying to take away from what Madonna did.