Wewee Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 4 hours ago, wish said: This forum has been rehashing the same threads about Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, Britney Spears, and Lady Gaga for years now and THIS is the topic that's boring to y'all? Katy Perry not even mentionned here that says a lot
WildHeart Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ithinkheknowsoutsold said: This is basically what happened with Taylor too though, no? Fearless spent 58 weeks in the top ten compared to Speak Now's 15. Both albums had several high debuting singles and promo singles but songs weren't able to set radio alight like the singles from the previous era and overall the album felt like more of an Anglospherian effort than its far-reaching predecessor. Then Red came and Taylor came back swinging with that, so the same could very well happen with Olivia. That's right but the thing is, second or third (in case second album is the breakthrough album) album underperforming is a very common thing but turning things around ala RED is a big anomaly. Given a common occurrence, there is a 90% chance that the decline will continue. Lowkey debut ----> Breakthrough ---> Decline -----> Decline --->Decline 1st 2nd 3rd 4th TFM BTW Artpop OOTB TD Prism Witness 19 21 25 30 + X Divide** Equals Stoney Beerbongs HB TCT Justified FutureSex 20/20 Man Of The Woods Christina Stripped Back To Basics ----------------- DSAM WWAFAS HTE SOUR GUTS It is just a common thing and i think that's because GP's interest in an average artist last for 1 more album after their breakthrough album (which is still a decline in most cases) and totally disappear after 3rd album. Their next albums will be their make or break moment with the odds of industry not favoring them but even if they decline, they will still end up with 40-50M units in the long run which is a feat achieved by a handful of artists in the history so... Edited November 15, 2023 by Artistofthedecade 2
liquiddiamonds Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) It’s funny that some people need to stick to numbers, because if I were to be honest: Both GUTS and HTE are head and shoulders above the material the milennial girls were churning out around the same age, and hell yeah I’m including Taylor in it. The songwriting is more expansive, more reflective, the production has more interesting references and both Dan ***** and FINNEAS are way too good in making records sound expensively well done with details instead of overly compressed. They were both 19 writing these records and people here overlook that detail a lot. It‘s a testament to their quality that they are put up against older girls that had time to mature their writing and have courage to experiment. I adore Taylor, Miley, etc but they took time to find their footing and bring consistency to their records. These gen z girls started with a bang and just get better but yeah numbers Edited November 15, 2023 by liquiddiamonds 2
UseYourIllusion2002 Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 32 minutes ago, Kyoto said: Outselling only in the US and UK I guess. GUTS ww performance is tragic. Outselling in two of the biggest (with the US being the biggest) markets? Now that IS a win for Liv
Relampago. Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Guts is so boring and once Olivia releases the same album for the 3rd time people will realize it instead of latching on to what little success it’s having rn Billie released quality so she won 1
Jooj Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Do you guys really think MC is a good metric for acclaim nowadays? Guts is not a 91 album, lets be real. With that being said, HTE managed to sell itself as a full album after the messiest rollout possible so even if Guts ends up bigger (which is unlikely atm), Billie is the real winner here because she still managed to keep her success and momentum going without sacrificing quality 2
badgirlriri Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Obviously. So much claims of how she was going to outdo Sour or do on-par and how Billie was replaced, just for it to be only slightly outpacing HTE week-to-week and who knows what that will end up looking like in the long run. That's with Billie not being a radio/singles artist, coming off one of the most intense hate trains of recent times, and having a very messy rollout and generally dealing with "overexposed" allegations. Meanwhile, Olivia's return was highly anticipated, she had a normal traditional rollout and was coming off of a 2 year break, yet has seemingly lost a lot of her singles power the one thing that really differentiated her from Billie and the era doesn't come across as more impressive than HTE. So it's obvious why people are saying Billie has gotten the last laugh. And I love Olivia and I've been streaming GUTS a lot the past few months, but the Livies really had this coming. Also, Billie achieving her critical scores at the height of her hate train where it would've been easy for publications to bandwagon against her (and some tried) is more impressive to me than the publications wrongly assuming Olivia was in for a blockbuster era and now looking foolish. Metacritic as a whole is a deeply unserious site at this point and I think the year-end list and decade-end in the long-run will be very telling as far as how seriously we should take its score. 6
Sabrina Carpenter Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Billie's worst song is better than Olivia's best (besides Deja vu)
Ron Ng Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 9 hours ago, Cameltoe Chariot said: These threads are boring ATRL would be boring without these threads tbh 1
mojitos Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Artistofthedecade said: That's right but the thing is, second or third (in case second album is the breakthrough album) album underperforming is a very common thing but turning things around ala RED is a big anomaly. Given a common occurrence, there is a 90% chance that the decline will continue. Lowkey debut ----> Breakthrough ---> Decline -----> Decline --->Decline 1st 2nd 3rd 4th TFM BTW Artpop OOTB TD Prism Witness 19 21 25 30 + X Divide** Equals Stoney Beerbongs HB TCT Justified FutureSex 20/20 Man Of The Woods Christina Stripped Back To Basics ----------------- DSAM WWAFAS HTE SOUR GUTS It is just a common thing and i think that's because GP's interest in an average artist last for 1 more album after their breakthrough album (which is still a decline in most cases) and totally disappear after 3rd album. Their next albums will be their make or break moment with the odds of industry not favoring them but even if they decline, they will still end up with 40-50M units in the long run which is a feat achieved by a handful of artists in the history so... it's also funny that all the artists that manage to have a HUGE album after a sophomore/album after breakthrough decline kinda follow a similar trend too, here are three examples mariah carey -> emotions -> music box dangerously in love -> bday -> iasf fearless -> speak now -> red all the first 2 albums by these artists are not exactly the most mainstream genre, especially outside of the us(r&b for both bey and mariah, country for taylor), but once they ALL went full pop is when they really found a new career peak(I know red has some country songs but let's be serious the main singles were all pop) imo billie can follow this pattern if she wants to, she seems ready to leave the alt pop sound and go for something more gp/radio friendly, especially since her vocals matured so much and she said it herself BE3 is somewhat different to her previous work Now I'm not sure if Olivia can do that though, her singles has been very mainstream since DL, except maybe bad idea right? so she kinda got unlucky, because if she does a drastic image and sound change she might follow a similar trajectory to xtina, where she just confuses her audience and they end up abandoning her. If she stays with the same sound though, she might follow an ed sheeran trajectory, where the gp loses interest BUT they still manage to have a loyal solid fanbase,which might not be bad cause he can still sell out stadiums. idk though and only time will tell, maybe one of them will surprise and do something groundbreaking or so horrible that they kill their careers forever 1
QueenofCopyPaste Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 OP is so obsessed with Olivia Its frightening
Margaux Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 accdg to the critics guts is the better album. idk how to feel about some randoms here in atrlers saying their opinion. maybe they should get certified first. and sales wise guts still stomped on hte. considering how much promo and payola the latter have. from countless singles and tth placements. 1 3
QueenofCopyPaste Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 "Happier Than Ever" 's GOLDWING is specifically about Olivia She won Mother Billie is MOTHERING to Baby Liv at that time Actually, to both 1
Klein Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 5 hours ago, liquiddiamonds said: It’s funny that some people need to stick to numbers, because if I were to be honest: Both GUTS and HTE are head and shoulders above the material the milennial girls were churning out around the same age, and hell yeah I’m including Taylor in it. The songwriting is more expansive, more reflective, the production has more interesting references and both Dan ***** and FINNEAS are way too good in making records sound expensively well done with details instead of overly compressed. They were both 19 writing these records and people here overlook that detail a lot. It‘s a testament to their quality that they are put up against older girls that had time to mature their writing and have courage to experiment. I adore Taylor, Miley, etc but they took time to find their footing and bring consistency to their records. These gen z girls started with a bang and just get better but yeah numbers At the age Olivia wrote GUTS, Taylor was writing Speak Now. Let's not...
ImperialCuntess Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) Happier Than Ever is a shift to a more visceral ambitious stripped back electronic infused pop, relying greatly on its melodic compositions and songwriting. By adopting a less immediate and more traditional approach it showcased her raw musicality. GUTS challenges her own narrative arc focusing on storytelling to deconstruct persona, expanding her sonic pallete and blending genre to great effect. It's clever use of musical theatricality is undeniable. Most, artists don't compare and aren't seeing that level of artistry in a lifetime making, their main competition themselves. Edited November 15, 2023 by ImperialCuntess 4
Donquizote Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 HTE is one of the best songs of all time. While I love GUTS, it doesn't have a song that can be classic in the future and makes me want to stream indefinitely like SOUR.
liquiddiamonds Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Klein said: At the age Olivia wrote GUTS, Taylor was writing Speak Now. Let's not... Taylor was 19 in 2008 actually, so it’s Fearless. GUTS is the better album to me. Taylor was still not good in introspection. Her ballads were still things like You’re Not Sorry and White Horse, too saccharine. Even if the comparison is Speak Now, I find both GUTS and HTE more interesting records. Dear John and Enchanted bangs, but both Billie and Olivia approach things Taylor didn’t touch with her writing yet… There were even girls washing her up around the same age like Laura Marling, who wrote this with 18… I think Olivia and Billie are closer to writing like these indie girls than Taylor was around their age Edited November 15, 2023 by liquiddiamonds 2 1
Klein Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, liquiddiamonds said: Taylor was 19 in 2008 actually, so it’s Fearless. Fearless was already out when Taylor was 19 yo. She did write Speak Now when she was 19-20 though, same as Olivia. And in Speak Now, you can find Dear John, Back To December, Last Kiss among others that are far superior to what Olivia's been able to come up with on GUTS. Fearless was written when she was 17-18. Edited November 15, 2023 by Klein
liquiddiamonds Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Just now, Klein said: Fearless was already out when Taylor was 19 yo. She did write Speak Now when she was 19-20 though, same as Olivia. Fearless was written when she was 17-18. I still find both albums superior to Speak Now, as I mentioned. I dont see a reason to fight an opinion…
Klein Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 1 minute ago, liquiddiamonds said: I still find both albums superior to Speak Now, as I mentioned. I dont see a reason to fight an opinion… Then frame it as an opinion and not a fact if you didn't want people to respond to that.
Ron Ng Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 Yes, I remember ATRL made fun of HTE's underperformance 2 years ago and they said Olivia has replaced Billie as the Genz queen, now we can clearly see the tables have turned when GUTS is doing even worse than HTE
liquiddiamonds Posted November 15, 2023 Posted November 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Klein said: Then frame it as an opinion and not a fact if you didn't want people to respond to that. I framed exactly as an opinion and explained why I found it as such with lyrics, production and consistency, didn’t even mentioned only Taylor, just included her in the batch, because especially the production was a consequence of its time and loudness war. Both Billie and Olivia aren’t afraid (in different levels) of being messy with their lyrical personas and approaching feelings it took entering their 20s to other milennial girls to approach, especially because they have more alternative influences and are coming up at different times, post-Lana and post-Lorde. They write in ways other couldn’t or didn’t give a thought about it. Both Billie and Olivia have explicits songs about abuse they undergone as an example and both released as lead singles without fear of commercial consequences (Your Power, Vampire). I could go on and on why these two are way more interesting imo at such a young age. They own up their **** song by song with great consistent. No wonder critics love both a lot 2
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