discussion Long term labor shortage in Vermont!

[Monster Megamind]

Age demographics are starting to show its effect in Vermont.... This is the beginning of the end.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Monster Megamind

[Jormungand]

I wouldn't mind moving to Vermont, but what industries do they even have and what's the pay like? Are there even incentives by the state of Vermont to bring in more people or are companies offering relocation assistance? Asking because I'm trying to get the hell out of this backwards ass dumpster that Florida has turned into. It would move me closer to NJ as well which is where I'm trying to move to for my bestie. 

[perfect blue]

I visited Burlington and Montpelier a couple of weeks ago… it was so boring.

[Ampersand13]

Grew up going to Vermont, love it up there. Got some family in the southern part of the state. During COVID it seemed like a lot of people were buying properties up there. I wonder if the majority of them were second homes or if family decides to sell as the world reopened and if that’s had any effect?

 

I’ll read the article when I get the chance, very interested.  

[BletaRexher]

Im sure every nice office job that pays well is fully staffed with boomers. They probably have every retail job open that pays $15 an hour max with owners that say “no one wants to work these days!”. It’s happening in my state in every small town too. Unless Vermont is willing to assist with buying a house and getting you a job that pays well no one is moving there.

[khalyan]

There is no incentive for young people to move to most of New England in general

[Aston Martin]

2 minutes ago, khalyan said:

There is no incentive for young people to move to most of New England in general

I'd say abortion, marijuana, and more legal protection for minorities and marginalized groups than red states would serve as incentives. The problem is that high cost of living negates them all to a generation that is financially worse-off than our parents. I'd move out of the shithole state I currently live in and up to NE in if I could afford it. 

[khalyan]

1 minute ago, Aston Martin said:

I'd say abortion, marijuana, and more legal protection for minorities and marginalized groups than red states would serve as incentives. The problem is that high cost of living negates them all to a generation that is financially worse-off than our parents. I'd move out of the shithole state I currently live in and up to NE in if I could afford it. 

Politics there are great, but what are people going to do for jobs? 

[Aston Martin]

7 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Politics there are great, but what are people going to do for jobs? 

I could see people who have good remote jobs and care about social issues having the purchasing power + desire to live somewhere like Vermont. But that won't really help their current issue on a larger scale because it's such a small group of people. 

[DAP]

Boo hoo. Won’t someone think of the poor employers that can’t get people to work for them in sh*t conditions for a $15 or $20-an-hour wage 

[Monster Megamind]

22 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Politics there are great, but what are people going to do for jobs? 

This is where capitalism comes in. Vermont has so many regulations and high taxes that businesses left the state. 

[Monster Megamind]

1 hour ago, Jormungand said:

I wouldn't mind moving to Vermont, but what industries do they even have and what's the pay like? Are there even incentives by the state of Vermont to bring in more people or are companies offering relocation assistance? Asking because I'm trying to get the hell out of this backwards ass dumpster that Florida has turned into. It would move me closer to NJ as well which is where I'm trying to move to for my bestie. 

Did you read the article?

[khalyan]

2 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said:

This is where capitalism comes in. Vermont has so many regulations and high taxes that businesses left the state. 

Nah, I don’t believe this has any affect 

[EtherealCat]

people arent having enough babies, i blame the gays

[byzantium]

If only immigration was legal.  Then they might be able to find some workers. 

[Mast]

2 hours ago, Jormungand said:

I wouldn't mind moving to Vermont, but what industries do they even have and what's the pay like? Are there even incentives by the state of Vermont to bring in more people or are companies offering relocation assistance? Asking because I'm trying to get the hell out of this backwards ass dumpster that Florida has turned into. It would move me closer to NJ as well which is where I'm trying to move to for my bestie. 

Vermont used to have relocation assistance but funding has run out since. Rent in "urban " areas like Burlington and Montpelier will be little high; around $18-$20/hr would be a liveable wage in those areas. That being said, the biggest industries in Vermont are probably farming, forestry, and tourism. There are some computer companies and financial services companies/lawfirms, but otherwise the job market in Vermont can be meh.

[Monster Megamind]

1 hour ago, khalyan said:

Nah, I don’t believe this has any affect 

Then why do you think new hampshire which is next door is flourishing but Vermont is collapsing?

[Mast]

1 hour ago, Monster Megamind said:

This is where capitalism comes in. Vermont has so many regulations and high taxes that businesses left the state. 

 

1 hour ago, Monster Megamind said:

This is where capitalism comes in. Vermont has so many regulations and high taxes that businesses left the state. 

Lmao I've lived in Vermont most of my life and I can assure you that's not why. We've known for over a decade now that the population of Vermont was aging and that this would impact the labor market in years to come. Vermont tried to fix it by creating small incentives, but young people increasingly leave the state for large/warmer cities and it's hard to convince young people to move to Vermont when it has never had a huge economy. Not to mention, to be perfectly honest, that it's a pretty ******* boring place to live in. 

 

You're also completely ignoring the fact that Vermont has seen two devastating climate catastrophies within the last decade that have put dozens, if not hundreds, of establishments out of business.

 

Also, the #1 reason people live Vermont is because housing is unaffordable and outpaces the growth of wages every year. This is generally the case across the country, but it hits hard in a place like Vermont where the job market is rather small and filled with boomers.

[Monster Megamind]

5 minutes ago, Mast said:

 

Lmao I've lived in Vermont most of my life and I can assure you that's not why. We've known for over a decade now that the population of Vermont was aging and that this would impact the labor market in years to come. Vermont tried to fix it by creating small incentives, but young people increasingly leave the state for large/warmer cities and it's hard to convince young people to move to Vermont when it has never had a huge economy. Not to mention, to be perfectly honest, that it's a pretty ******* boring place to live in. 

 

You're also completely ignoring the fact that Vermont has seen two devastating climate catastrophies within the last decade that have put dozens, if not hundreds, of establishments out of business.

 

Also, the #1 reason people live Vermont is because housing is unaffordable and outpaces the growth of wages every year. This is generally the case across the country, but it hits hard in a place like Vermont where the job market is rather small and filled with boomers.

@khalyan  chat gpt told me this.

This is a complex question that does not have a definitive answer. However, based on some sources, here are some possible factors that may contribute to the economic differences between Vermont and New Hampshire:

• Taxation: New Hampshire has no income or sales tax, while Vermont has both. This may attract more businesses and residents to New Hampshire, as well as increase their disposable income¹².
• Population: New Hampshire has more than twice the population of Vermont, which means a larger labor force, consumer base, and tax revenue. New Hampshire also has a higher population density, which may reduce the costs of infrastructure and public services¹³.
• Education: New Hampshire has a higher percentage of college-educated adults than Vermont, which may indicate a more skilled and productive workforce. New Hampshire also spends more on education per student than Vermont, which may improve the quality of education and human capital¹³.
• Health care: Vermont has a higher percentage of people with health insurance than New Hampshire, which may reflect its more generous social welfare programs. However, this also means higher health care costs and taxes for Vermont, which may reduce its economic competitiveness¹³.
• Natural environment: Vermont has a more diverse and scenic natural environment than New Hampshire, which may attract more tourists and outdoor enthusiasts. However, Vermont also has more environmental regulations and restrictions, which may limit its economic development and growth potential¹³⁴.
• Business environment: New Hampshire ranks higher than Vermont in terms of business friendliness, economic freedom, and innovation potential, according to various surveys and indices. This may indicate that New Hampshire has a more conducive and supportive environment for entrepreneurship, investment, and innovation¹³².
• Growth: New Hampshire has a higher annual GDP growth rate than Vermont, which may reflect its more dynamic and diversified economy. New Hampshire also has a higher employment growth rate and a lower unemployment rate than Vermont, which may indicate a stronger and more resilient labor market¹³.
• Infrastructure: New Hampshire has better infrastructure than Vermont, according to some measures, such as road quality, broadband access, and energy efficiency. This may improve the connectivity, mobility, and productivity of New Hampshire’s economy and society¹³ .
• Opportunity: Vermont ranks higher than New Hampshire in terms of opportunity, according to some indicators, such as income equality, social mobility, and poverty reduction. This may suggest that Vermont has a more fair and inclusive society, where people have more chances to improve their well-being and quality of life¹³.
• COVID-19: The COVID-19 pandemic has affected both states in different ways, with varying impacts on their health and economic outcomes. Vermont has had fewer cases and deaths per capita than New Hampshire, which may indicate its more effective and proactive response to the crisis. However, Vermont has also faced more restrictions and lockdowns, which may have harmed its economic activity and recovery¹³ .

These are some of the possible points that may explain why Vermont is not flourishing economically compared to New Hampshire. However, these points are not exhaustive or conclusive, and there may be other factors and perspectives that are not covered here. Therefore, I encourage you to do more research and analysis on this topic, using reliable and diverse sources of information. 😊

 

[Mast]

6 minutes ago, Monster Megamind said:

Then why do you think new hampshire which is next door is flourishing but Vermont is collapsing?

Because New Hampshire's population is twice as big and it is located much closer to Boston. Vermont ain't close to ****. About 15% of the workforce in New Hampshire commutes to Massachusetts for work.

[Monster Megamind]

1 minute ago, Mast said:

Because New Hampshire's population is twice as big and it is located much closer to Boston. Vermont ain't close to ****. About 15% of the workforce in New Hampshire commutes to Massachusetts for work.

Now what do you think they need to do to solve Vermont s problems?

[Mast]

Just now, Monster Megamind said:

@khalyan  chat gpt told me this.

This is a complex question that does not have a definitive answer. However, based on some sources, here are some possible factors that may contribute to the economic differences between Vermont and New Hampshire:

• Taxation: New Hampshire has no income or sales tax, while Vermont has both. This may attract more businesses and residents to New Hampshire, as well as increase their disposable income¹².
• Population: New Hampshire has more than twice the population of Vermont, which means a larger labor force, consumer base, and tax revenue. New Hampshire also has a higher population density, which may reduce the costs of infrastructure and public services¹³.
• Education: New Hampshire has a higher percentage of college-educated adults than Vermont, which may indicate a more skilled and productive workforce. New Hampshire also spends more on education per student than Vermont, which may improve the quality of education and human capital¹³.
• Health care: Vermont has a higher percentage of people with health insurance than New Hampshire, which may reflect its more generous social welfare programs. However, this also means higher health care costs and taxes for Vermont, which may reduce its economic competitiveness¹³.
• Natural environment: Vermont has a more diverse and scenic natural environment than New Hampshire, which may attract more tourists and outdoor enthusiasts. However, Vermont also has more environmental regulations and restrictions, which may limit its economic development and growth potential¹³⁴.
• Business environment: New Hampshire ranks higher than Vermont in terms of business friendliness, economic freedom, and innovation potential, according to various surveys and indices. This may indicate that New Hampshire has a more conducive and supportive environment for entrepreneurship, investment, and innovation¹³².
• Growth: New Hampshire has a higher annual GDP growth rate than Vermont, which may reflect its more dynamic and diversified economy. New Hampshire also has a higher employment growth rate and a lower unemployment rate than Vermont, which may indicate a stronger and more resilient labor market¹³.
• Infrastructure: New Hampshire has better infrastructure than Vermont, according to some measures, such as road quality, broadband access, and energy efficiency. This may improve the connectivity, mobility, and productivity of New Hampshire’s economy and society¹³ .
• Opportunity: Vermont ranks higher than New Hampshire in terms of opportunity, according to some indicators, such as income equality, social mobility, and poverty reduction. This may suggest that Vermont has a more fair and inclusive society, where people have more chances to improve their well-being and quality of life¹³.
• COVID-19: The COVID-19 pandemic has affected both states in different ways, with varying impacts on their health and economic outcomes. Vermont has had fewer cases and deaths per capita than New Hampshire, which may indicate its more effective and proactive response to the crisis. However, Vermont has also faced more restrictions and lockdowns, which may have harmed its economic activity and recovery¹³ .

These are some of the possible points that may explain why Vermont is not flourishing economically compared to New Hampshire. However, these points are not exhaustive or conclusive, and there may be other factors and perspectives that are not covered here. Therefore, I encourage you to do more research and analysis on this topic, using reliable and diverse sources of information. 😊

 

I'm literally from Vermont bro. I suggest that you actually look into sources rather than just pull up chatgpt and call that research. Do you even know how chatgpt works?

 

The link it provided for the taxation explanation does not even link to any study about the effects of taxation. It literally just leads to a demographics comparison chart. You can't even be bothered to do your research properly lmao. Just confirming your own bias.

[Monster Megamind]

1 minute ago, Mast said:

I'm literally from Vermont bro. I suggest that you actually look into sources rather than just pull up chatgpt and call that research. Do you even know how chatgpt works?

 

The link it provided for the taxation explanation does not even link to any study about the effects of taxation. It literally just leads to a demographics comparison chart. You can't even be bothered to do your research properly lmao. Just confirming your own bias.

OK then answer me. What all needs to be done to solve Vermont s issues.?

[Jotham]

I've heard about this a lot from people living in Vermont, the population is rapidly aging because younger people are leaving due to unaffordable housing and a poor job market. I also don't see myself living there as I heard that it's a difficult place to live in if you're an ethnic minority.

[Monster Megamind]

3 minutes ago, Jotham said:

I've heard about this a lot from people living in Vermont, the population is rapidly aging because younger people are leaving due to unaffordable housing and a poor job market. I also don't see myself living there as I heard that it's a difficult place to live in if you're an ethnic minority.

I wonder how the housing prices are not decreasing when the population is falling and probably demand for housing is decreasing... And it's an empty rural state.