discussion Is America’s debt proof that at a high level, money is made up?

[Just a Gay on ATRL]

The US has over 33 TRILLION in national debt currently. Let’s be real that is probably never getting paid. I mean…

 

Obviously I know money is tangibly a very real thing and concern in life for all of us, but my point: is the absurdly high US debt just further proof that humans are sadists and just made up money to make life more stressful for everyone on earth?  Does money make zero sense at the end of the day? Why did we do this to ourselves? Lol

[jesus del rey]

Capitalism running its course

[Sheep]

Money and power are related. Under civilizations's current paradigm, as long as the US is the most powerful country they're still the richest.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Sheep

[tost1]

I mean who do they even owe that money to? Money is a ****** up concept

[LadyDiana]

But, what is an alternative to capitalism?

[Tropez]

The debt is owed to itself. Those are mostly bonds, the US always pays on time. Because of that, other countries have faith in the US as it’s proven to be a stable economy for 200+ years. 
 

Most of this is basic economics. I suggest you understand how economies work. 

[Domination]

Lol, the debt of a country is not comparable to the debt you have on your credit cards. Please read up on modern monetary theory.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Domination

[Contessa]

4 minutes ago, LadyDiana said:

But, what is an alternative to capitalism?

People equally entitled to the finite amount of resources

Edited October 18, 2023 by Contessa

[byzantium]

No.  Not really.  Having some debt is generally healthy. You don’t want to little or too much.  The problem is not the debt itself but the ability to pay it.  
 

The issue with national debt is that no one really knows what the sweet spot is and it might often vary country to country.  I would say the US national debt is concerning, and it will increasingly face issues with its crumbling political systems.  But this does not mean money is fake. 

[45seconds]

17 minutes ago, Contessa said:

People equally entitled to the finite amount of resources

…socialism?  

[BrokenMachine]

10 minutes ago, 45seconds said:

…socialism?  

Yes 

[BrokenMachine]

In summary, yes. But lemme put a Second Thought video since it widely explains that topic in case some of you need it

 

 

[Daddy]

Money is made up like everything in our society. It still makes sense to have something to indicate value. We're too many people on earth to live from our own farms and I don't know if somebody would take a bucket of eggs for a vinyl record. It's not ideal but what's the alternative? 

[byzantium]

1 hour ago, Contessa said:

People equally entitled to the finite amount of resources

But there is not a finite amount of resources.  Which is the fundamental tension.  You want to incentivize the efficient creation of resources while ensuring everyone has what they need to live quality lives.  (And I say this as a socialist) 

[John Slayne]

money at all levels is totally made up. that doesn't mean it's not real though. it just means that it is an economic system that is propped up by our collective agreement, or the agreement of those in power.

 

money is absolutely not necessary to run a society. it's kind of like borders - they are made up, but affect us in very real and tangible ways - but they are not objective, natural, or necessary. it's just one way of organizing the world. 

[LadyDiana]

6 hours ago, BrokenMachine said:

Yes 

Um... you do realise that's not gonna work?! I mean it is a nice idea, but we as a species are not on that intelectual level yet. Maybe we'll never be. Cuz in the end if there is no "reward" for hard work, no one is going to do any work at all. 

[BrokenMachine]

1 hour ago, LadyDiana said:

Um... you do realise that's not gonna work?! I mean it is a nice idea, but we as a species are not on that intelectual level yet. Maybe we'll never be. Cuz in the end if there is no "reward" for hard work, no one is going to do any work at all. 

Socialism is about 'rewarding' hard work tho

 

Or do you believe nowadays under capitalism the likes of Musk, Bezos, Gates, etc work x26482819 times harder than their employees ?

[DamianSolo]

As we move closer to a cashless society, the concept of money does become a lot more abstract to the point where it does seem "made up." I can't even remember the last time I held a paycheck in my hand, for example, it just all gets directly deposited into my bank account; numbers just increase digitally. Nothing is tangibly in my hand, unless I make a cash withdrawal—but I never really need to carry cash on me.

 

I feel like a lot of the rules that apply to money aren't inherently so, since the concept of money is very much man-made. After all, at one point, salt was a form of currency.

[WokeEqualist]

For wealthy nations maybe, but for individuals... pay that credit card statement on time sis

[JonginBey]

Everything about this country is a scam.

[monologueNacafe]

21 hours ago, byzantium said:

But this does not mean money is fake. 

But it is

[byzantium]

20 minutes ago, monologueNacafe said:

But it is

You are arguing semantics and not substance.  Financial institutions, like any institution is a product of humans so one could take the position that all institutions are “fake” or “artificial”.  But you would need to concede that institutions like “Holidays”; “marriage”; “law”; “the existence of sovereign states”; or “property ownership” are also fake. 
 

To which I would counter then that just because you deem them as fake does not mean they are not meaningful.