base talk Is Taylor Swift breaking typical conventions of how popstar's rise and 'peak'?

[MingYouToo]

Hear me out, ALL popstars, I mean, ALL, from their mainstream breakout peak within their first decade. Though I am talking about actual mainstream popstars, not the CRJs, the Grimes, the Melanie Martinez's or the Ava Max's and whatnot.

 

Sure its not their debut era or whatever but the moment an artist kicks out into mainstream you're guaranteed that they'll peak their first decade in it. Michael Jackson, Madonna, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Mariah Carey, Whitney, Justin Bieber, etc.

 

Every popstar under the sun always peaks within 10 years of their mainstream breakout, except for Taylor Swift. 

 

Taylor Swift found success in 2006-2007 but really kicked into mainstream popularity with 2008s Fearless, and many consider her 2014 set 1989 to be her peak, well within the 7th/8th year of her first decade, following that rule, she falls under this category. And her time would close around 2018-2019, and it during that time period, many thought it did with the Lover era (Loser truly won in the end I fear)

 

What is surprising however is that 2014's 1989 era pales in comparison to the level of fame, success and acclaim she has in the 2020s, nearly 15 years later, starting off with 2020s Folklore and Evermore, the re-recordings and with the smashing success of 2022's Midnights (with numbers never thought was possible in the 2020s but she did it), and its expected that she will hit even higher highs in 2024, a whole decade after her original 1989 era. The sky is the limit for TS11 too.

 

Based off of this, she is clearly bending the conventions of what a popstar can do despite the moniker that the older you get = more unappealing you become. Taylor has only become more and more popular as she's stayed in the industry, nearly pushing 20 years in the game and spanning 3 decades, while not only competing, but towering over every other artist both trendy and established. She's managed to take the millennial kids and teens with her, grew up with them, took their kids and teens too, and just recently, took the dads by a chokehold, she's only expanded her fanbase as time goes by.

 

Is Taylor breaking popstar conventions of rising and peak eras?

 

 

[Mordecai]

Well Taylor's current imperial era was brought on by Covid, which is an anomaly. We don't know what her career would look like if it never happened. She's also doing her re-recordings at her peak which to every other artist would not make commercial sense. So her career trajectory can't really be compared to others.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason why Taylor, Beyonce etc. are still able to have such longevity and success is because of a lack of superstars in the current pop landscape. This new generation hasn't really taken over the way that previous eras have.

[on the line]

Yes, by far. 

 

She's played such a diff game than the legacy acts whose fans always say "so impressive for 20+ years into its career!!!" when those acts market their brand as "exclusive and elusive" to keep their hype when they drop an album every 5-7 years. Rather than doing the bare minimum, she does the most while constantly being on the edge of overexposure, and is STILL going up in popularity. Even the general public can see Taylor loves what she does and does it out of passion, and not simply for more money. A true phenomenon and will be the definitive pop star of this generation.

[Vespertine]

6 minutes ago, Mordecai said:

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason why Taylor, Beyonce etc. are still able to have such longevity and success is because of a lack of superstars in the current pop landscape. This new generation hasn't really taken over the way that previous eras have.

This is really true. Taylor and Bey are the most talked about MPGs still even though they're approaching 20 and 30 years in the industry  Labels are really struggling to get someone to stick for more than an album or two. 

[shyboi]

is just the current sociological climate

 

actors, especially actresses are having longer careers, models are having campaigns well in their 50s or 60s

[LastGreatBloodline]

yes but this discussion happens here every single day we get it

[Steve Johnson]

Stop making same threads with different titles again and again. 

[Rotunda]

Yes, but Taylor is a once-in-generation kind of phenomenon. There’s always someone each era who seems to be on a totally different trajectory than everyone else in their lane. What I’m really curious is if other artists will be able to experience a similar kind of flourishing after having mainstream success for years.
 

7 minutes ago, on the line said:

Yes, by far. 

 

She's played such a diff game than the legacy acts whose fans always say "so impressive for 20+ years into its career!!!" when those acts market their brand as "exclusive and elusive" to keep their hype when they drop an album every 5-7 years. Rather than doing the bare minimum, she does the most while constantly being on the edge of overexposure, and is STILL going up in popularity. Even the general public can see Taylor loves what she does and does it out of passion, and not simply for more money. A true phenomenon and will be the definitive pop star of this generation.

This argument would carry more weight if there was any other legacy act following this trajectory than Beyoncé. Taylor and Beyoncé both take approaches to their careers that are distinct from each other, but are also distinct from everyone else in their cohorts. Taylor is obviously #1, but Beyoncé’s approach has worked well for her.

[Rev8]

Sia

[swissman]

Taylor is definitely an anomaly, not only for her continued success but for the continued success of her catalogue as she continues to release new music. It's pretty unprecedented and very much something to be in awe at.

 

I think the key to this is she didn't come up as part of a trend, nor even catered to one (for the most part) at any given time. As trends changed, her image and her music didn't feel passé because it remained the steady branding she always had, and that clearly the public enjoyed. She also has largely not been musically nor lyrically controversial. Probably the "riskiest" musical move was to go to full pop from her loyal country genre, while already basically making pop music as it was. She is comparable to Adele in this way: having something that works and that appeals to the general public in an inoffensive and commercial way, and having continued success because of it. Comparing her to some of the people listed in the OP like Madonna (who has been one of the riskiest popstars ever), or Gaga (whose pop career matched with larger trends and fell off when those trends started to change) or Katy (who switched up her brand too abruptly that left the GP confused and uninspired) or even Beyoncé (who went away from the pop trends and then continued to be more political and hands-off) or Mariah (whose momentary fall was moreso due to the public ridicule of her mental health), we see that there is a big difference in the choices made in the career itself.

She also mastered the art of relating to listeners. I cannot quite describe how because I've never related to her, but it's impossible for my experience to negate the fact that she very much has related to millions of fans. This keeps her close, and guarantees a sort of base level success.
 

I also think that the re-releases has truly helped her career, bringing new fans into the mix who maybe didn't experience the original eras, reinvigorating interest from longtime fans, and just simply giving more content more often which in this streaming age can be a key to success.

 

All in all, it's very impressive.

[byzantium]

Yes, she definitely is but I would say that most legends break typical conventions or redefine those conventions.  That is what makes them legends.  

In terms of her longevity, Taylor Swift really stands out.  I genuinely cannot think of an artist who had their career peak 17 years into their career, especially an artist who released a diamond record and achieved pop culture omnipotence 15 years earlier.  (And then later became the biggest artist in the world 9 years before...with another diamond record).  

[dumbsparce]

Not really bc it is exclusive to her. I don't think any artist we have right now will be able to experience her career trajectory. To be able to be Taylor Swift you literally have to be Taylor Swift as in start out super young, be successful right from the get go and have the drive to push forward harder and harder. Miley had the foundation to be just like Taylor Swift but she's had way too many flops now to even be in the conversation.

[on the line]

3 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

Yes, but Taylor is a once-in-generation kind of phenomenon. There’s always someone each era who seems to be on a totally different trajectory than everyone else in their lane. What I’m really curious is if other artists will be able to experience a similar kind of flourishing after having mainstream success for years.
 

This argument would carry more weight if there was any other legacy act following this trajectory than Beyoncé. Taylor and Beyoncé both take approaches to their careers that are distinct from each other, but are also distinct from everyone else in their cohorts. Taylor is obviously #1, but Beyoncé’s approach has worked well for her.

Ah, I actually think Beyonce's marketing as an elusive luxury brand is brilliant and why she's still around. A lot of people really eat it up.

[idkwiam]

43 minutes ago, MingYouToo said:

Hear me out, ALL popstars, I mean, ALL, from their mainstream breakout peak within their first decade. Though I am talking about actual mainstream popstars, not the CRJs, the Grimes, the Melanie Martinez's or the Ava Max's and whatnot.

 

Sure its not their debut era or whatever but the moment an artist kicks out into mainstream you're guaranteed that they'll peak their first decade in it. Michael Jackson, Madonna, Beyonce, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Mariah Carey, Whitney, Justin Bieber, etc.

 

Every popstar under the sun always peaks within 10 years of their mainstream breakout, except for Taylor Swift. 

 

Taylor Swift found success in 2006-2007 but really kicked into mainstream popularity with 2008s Fearless, and many consider her 2014 set 1989 to be her peak, well within the 7th/8th year of her first decade, following that rule, she falls under this category. And her time would close around 2018-2019, and it during that time period, many thought it did with the Lover era (Loser truly won in the end I fear)

 

What is surprising however is that 2014's 1989 era pales in comparison to the level of fame, success and acclaim she has in the 2020s, nearly 15 years later, starting off with 2020s Folklore and Evermore, the re-recordings and with the smashing success of 2022's Midnights (with numbers never thought was possible in the 2020s but she did it), and its expected that she will hit even higher highs in 2024, a whole decade after her original 1989 era. The sky is the limit for TS11 too.

 

Based off of this, she is clearly bending the conventions of what a popstar can do despite the moniker that the older you get = more unappealing you become. Taylor has only become more and more popular as she's stayed in the industry, nearly pushing 20 years in the game and spanning 3 decades, while not only competing, but ttowering over every other artist both trendy and established. She's managed to take the millennial kids and teens with her, grew up with them, took their kids and teens too, and just recently, took the dads by a chokehold, she's only expanded her fanbase as time goes by.

 

Is Taylor breaking popstar conventions of rising and peak eras?

 

 

Tina Turner peaked 25 years WW wise after her debut and she peaked in Europe 30 years post her debut so it's not guaranteed that you'll peak in your first decade. 

[RobynYoBank]

No artist has ever followed her trajectory

[EmailMySwift]

She's in her own league. We know this already. 

[Tidal]

She’s definitely the biggest pop star out rn. 

 

I don’t mean to make this a Tay vs Bey thing but I do think Bey being a Black woman in her 40’s with another arguable peak is a tad bit more “unconventional” though. As much as nobody wants to acknowledge it, that’s a huge feat (especially consider Beyoncé is certainly… controversial to any demographics beside her own).

 

Taylor is tall, white, skinny, and blond. Pretty much THE most “acceptable” pop star in the world. Bey’s kinda the opposite, which is why I would put her ahead due to how unconventional her brand is as a whole. 

 

Both are doing amazing for themselves though

[Glam]

No she isn't cause Madonna did it already. But she's the 2nd female artist to do it so I'll give her that.

 

 

[MingYouToo]

1 minute ago, Tidal said:

She’s definitely the biggest pop star out rn. 

 

I don’t mean to make this a Tay vs Bey thing but I do think Bey being a Black woman in her 40’s with another arguable peak is a tad bit more “unconventional” though. As much as nobody wants to acknowledge it, that’s a huge feat (especially consider Beyoncé is certainly… controversial to any demographics beside her own).

 

Taylor is tall, white, skinny, and blond. Pretty much THE most “acceptable” pop star in the world. Bey’s kinda the opposite, which is why I would put her ahead due to how unconventional her brand is as a whole. 

 

Both are doing amazing for themselves though

True. I can see it.

 

Beyonce being a woman of color doing what she is doing is truly remarkable on its own right, I mean 25 years and she just had a solo #1 and a top 10 global smash last year like

 

And the best part about it is Beyonce has never floundered in star power or celebrity (her commercial decline is her own decision and I stand by it!) like, she has been in the game since No No No went Top 10 in 1998

[Freakshowvato]

No bc she is no longer the generic pop star she once was. Her music power now comes from authentic album discography with hits here and there but they arent a “Shake It Off” 

[Raphy23]

I think she’s bringing it back to how it used to be. Pop stars would have their up’s and downs but would last for decades. Madonna, Cher, etc.