Safe&Sound Posted September 7, 2023 Author Posted September 7, 2023 2 hours ago, DoubleRainbow! said: Well Teenage Dream is the reason why 1989 exists so now you know which album did it first The fact is Teenage Dream... and PRISM are the epitome of mainstream Pop albums which turn critics off There is lack of narrative and lyrical content. It is just bunch of radio friendly songs which doesnt connect to each other and thrown into single album If she puts TIHWD to Teenage Dream and Pearl to PRISM, both will remain the same album Katy herself just started doing it on Witness 1 1
Timeless Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Safe&Sound said: There is lack of narrative and lyrical content. It is just bunch of radio friendly songs which doesnt connect to each other and thrown into single album Could I ask how 1989 songs connect together to make one narrative? Teenage Dream is all about the facets of teenhood and adolescent - songs about growing up, partying, teenage lust, self-empowerment, etc. Meanwhile 1989 songs don't really fit together narratively. It consists of songs about the media, moving to New York, her fued with Katy Perry, her ex Harry Styles. I love 1989 but to say that 1989 has narrative meanwhile Teenage Dream lacks is a lie. Edited September 7, 2023 by Timeless 2 1
Power love Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 That Ellie Goulding shade was so unnecessary 1
Kill Me Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Cain said: No, Emotion by Carly started the poptimism era among critics After 1989 pure pop music was largely missing from the charts for half a decade before making a big comeback in the 2020s, so commercially it didn’t usher in that renaissance either Nice try... but 1989 is the first unapologetically pop album to make the top 10 on YE lists. Even E.MO.TION failed to do it. Year End Lists - Metacritic: 2014: #6 - 1989 https://www.metacritic.com/feature/critics-pick-top-10-albums-of-2014 2015: #11 - E.MO.TION https://www.metacritic.com/feature/critics-pick-top-10-best-albums-of-2015 Critics were going so hard for Taylor that guardian made this whole article about Taylor and poptimism. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/03/taylor-swift-poptimism 4
AxelFox Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 Not in the slightest. It was, in fact, one of the first major releases to benefit from the poptimism current that had already started prior; notably with Adele and the reception of 21. The breakthrough moment of modern poptimism however was marked by Beyoncé's self titled record in 2013. While not exclusively 'pop' in genre, Beyoncé herself has always existed in the female pop star thrope. And the critical reception to that album was something we had not seen for a female pop star since arguably the 90s. The reviews and praise were unparalleled and that 85 Metacritic score was literally unheard of for female pop stars at that time. It was only after it that female pop started to be taken more seriously once more after a long while and girls like Lorde, Lana del ray and eventually taylor herself would see similar levels of acclaim. And it is one f the major pillars of what allowed 1989 to be as well received, albeit on a smaller scale as it is nowhere as good or ambitious of a project. It would not have seen the same reception had it been released back in like 2012. 4 5 2
Lille Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 Yes, it was absolutely the start of the most recent wave of Poptimism. 1
Virgos Groove Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) It was a big part of it, but other artists and albums also played a role (Fever, Xenomania, FS/LS, Gaga, Robyn, Bey's ST, Emotion). Poptimism was a decade-long process with huge advances and retrocesses, and it's not realistic to pin it down to a single moment. Edited September 7, 2023 by Virgos Groove 3
Mr. Stratus Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, vuelve88 said: Taylor Swift is a critically acclaimed artist regardless of trends. Lady Gaga’s “Joanne” was released in 2016 and has a 67 on Metacritic, so I guess it wasn’t affected by “poptimism”. Joanne is a good example, but because it isn't 'pop' it was judged more harshly - she was trying to move away from AP/BTW EDM sound (which would've been lower brow back then)... Like, this is why ATRL tries to say its the worst album ever. An album that totally bombed hard - like glory - released the month before in 2016, is full of filler, only charted for 8 weeks and received the higher score on metacritic (71) is a much better example of a flop being effected by poptimism OT: and no she helped but this was charli and carly doing that... now house pop albums that sound basic af and flop get a 79+, just cause the industry has shifted Edited September 7, 2023 by Mr. Stratus
Harrier Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 I don't think you can pin poptimism to just one album or one era even. It was a slow evolution in the past 20-25 years. Taylor was definitely a big contributor, but in places like the UK good pop music has been recieving significant acclaim since before Taylor even released anything Think like Girls Aloud or Kylie's acclaimed material Idk I think its too complex to put on one album
skankle Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 Poptimism was already around but Emotion is definitely the pivotal album/moment to pick Maybe Beyoncé too, getting 88 on metacritic back then was huge. 5 minutes ago, Harrier said: I don't think you can pin poptimism to just one album or one era even. It was a slow evolution in the past 20-25 years. Taylor was definitely a big contributor, but in places like the UK good pop music has been recieving significant acclaim since before Taylor even released anything Think like Girls Aloud or Kylie's acclaimed material Idk I think its too complex to put on one album Yeah poptimism has always had more sway in the UK. The Sugababes were getting NME acclaim in 2002
Novacaine Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 If anything I think 1989 is what inspired the anti-pop phase that we saw in the later half of the 2010’s.
Draper. Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) It was Robyn's Body Talk. It was loved by both artists and critics. The album was so good that Max Martin himself said that artists came to him asking for that sound. That's how you get the synthpop trend of Love Me Harder (#43 on Pitchfork's year end list) or Style (#50 on Pitchfork's year end list, Taylor herself name-drops Dancing On My Own on Shake It Off). Critics would give great ratings to anything Body Talk-sounding or openly inspired by the album from then on: CHVRCHES, Melodrama, E·mo·tion, Georgia's About Work the Dancefloor... But Carly was #29 on Pitchfork's Year End list for 2012 with Call Me Maybe. Beyoncé's self titled got a 8.8 score from them in December 2013. Ariana's Problem and Break Free got a Best New Track mention in early 2014. So the trend started before 1989. Edited September 7, 2023 by Draper. 2
brraap Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) Didn’t trap/rap totally dominate directly after 1989 in 2016/2017 with pop music to be found nowhere? Dead? Struggling on the charts? What is this think piece If anything she ended pop . Even Taylor herself switched to a darker aesthetic when she got cancelled, everyone started getting woke/ offended by everything, bleak times due to trump presidency etc Like yes it was a great album but not the shake up OP wrote about In terms of 1989 helping pop acts score higher acclaim, The Grammys in the year Bruno swept had limited choice because all the top records were by rap artists (and we know how much they dislike that genre in general field). It was between childish gambino, jay z, bruno, kendrick and lorde (who sadly got snubbed all night despite melodrama being what I would have thought the top choice, perhaps behind the scenes drama w/ the committee) The year after that they returned to usual and awarded kacey musgraves in a sea of rap acts. Then billie. Then Taylor again for folklore. In my opinion 1989 was the last hurrah of pop Edited September 7, 2023 by brraap 1
PopKills Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Safe&Sound said: There is lack of narrative and lyrical content. It is just bunch of radio friendly songs which doesnt connect to each other and thrown into single album Imagine actually believing that lmao
Blank Space Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Timeless said: Let's be serious, the reason why Taylor wanted to work with Max Martin in the first place WAS because of his pop bangers during this era, and this includes Teenage Dream as well. There's a reason why she switched to the pop genre as she noticed that her sound was getting tired but also because pop music was what topped the charts during the early 2010s. Speak Now singles and Red country singles flopped. The commercial success of Teenage Dream among other successful pop albums during this time drove her into making 1989. now where did you get that from? max martin has been the top hit maker since 1999, not since 2010. both speak now and red sold over one million in the first week. no one else was doing it. she didn't need commercial hits as you're saying. she decided to go pop in 2014 cause she simply wanted to. there's no correlation Edited September 7, 2023 by Blank Space
Digitalism Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 Nah she was kinda the last one before it changed But it started slowly with loose and fsls
Safe&Sound Posted September 7, 2023 Author Posted September 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Timeless said: Could I ask how 1989 songs connect together to make one narrative? Teenage Dream is all about the facets of teenhood and adolescent - songs about growing up, partying, teenage lust, self-empowerment, etc. Meanwhile 1989 songs don't really fit together narratively. It consists of songs about the media, moving to New York, her fued with Katy Perry, her ex Harry Styles. I love 1989 but to say that 1989 has narrative meanwhile Teenage Dream lacks is a lie. but you can hear that silver lining through 1989 It's about living in big city life, how rumors fly about her (Blank Space) and how she tried to escape from the media (I Know Places), how one day she was picked up with no headlights (Style), and left her thinking at 2AM seeing a headlights passing (I Wish You Would) how the album finally ended about completely moving on from the chapter of her life Since you may not be a fan, she actually put a hidden message on every song's lyric Teenage Dream definitely is lack of that storytelling. I can even assure that she actually put first 5 tracks as her initial singles plan 1
Timeless Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Safe&Sound said: but you can hear that silver lining through 1989 It's about living in big city life, how rumors fly about her (Blank Space) and how she tried to escape from the media (I Know Places), how one day she was picked up with no headlights (Style), and left her thinking at 2AM seeing a headlights passing (I Wish You Would) how the album finally ended about completely moving on from the chapter of her life Since you may not be a fan, she actually put a hidden message on every song's lyric Teenage Dream definitely is lack of that storytelling. I can even assure that she actually put first 5 tracks as her initial singles plan Hidden messages are just a fun detail for fans to uncover and discover. There is no way you seriously think Shake It Off is actually about how "she danced to forget him" like bffr that song is about shaking off the hate and scrutiny she gets from the media. Also your entire first paragraph is a huge reach but I applaud the creativity nontheless. 1
Noodles Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 Body Talk and ST. ST getting 8.8 and BNM on Pitchfork and 85 on Metacritic in 2013 was a shock to everyone, I remember that thread clearly. 1
worldwide angel Posted September 7, 2023 Posted September 7, 2023 this might be a little late but i believe that poptimism is robyn's legacy more than anyone. everyone from britney, to carly, to taylor, to ariana owe it to robyn (specifically her self titled record and the body talk trilogy). i mean body talk was the blueprint for albums like 1989 and my everything. i would also agree that ST also plays a major role. with that album, bey gagged both the GP and the critics and if we really wanna go there, ST kind of represents moment pop music shifts away from EDM and towards trap and hip/hop. kind of like how FN / After Hours kind of represent the beginning and the peak of the disco revival trend. with the "popificiation" of trap music, the argument could be made that both bey and rihanna helped popularize the subgenre and its peak would be in 2018/2019 and best represented by the sweetener and thank u, next 1-2 punch i see FS/LS and loose being mentioned and while they are worthy albums. i would argue that its blackout that holds more credibility. they do exist in the same universe but blackout has always been singled out as the more "european" of the bunch and britney's embrace of dubstep and autotune did set the foundation for the upcoming EDM domination and both genres / technology to be considered commercially viable and respectable to a greater degree.
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