news France to ban abayas from schools

[LookinAssHittas]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/europe/france-abayas-schools-ban-intl/index.html
 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by LookinAssHittas

[LookinAssHittas]

Once again, France shows how much they hate Muslims & women.

 

An abaya is not a religious garment and does not pose any threat whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

[Embustera]

I am not surprised tho. Muslims should protest against this.

[Breathe On Moi]

people keep trying to defend France and then they keep showing their ass like this 

[Revolution]

This is the same country that genocided all of its linguistic minorities so that everyone would speak Paris French. They have zero tolerance for any culture outside of the one practiced by Paris elites.

[Keter]

I personally don’t see a problem with France setting certain rules for itself as a sovereign state. I would also expect respect to be shown to style of dress requirements in a place like Saudi Arabia, etc. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Keter

[IBeMe]

But why? The abaya is literally traditional dress…it’s not the burqa/face veil which I agree with that being banned but the abaya? That’s just ridiculous at this point. 

[IBeMe]

5 minutes ago, Keter said:

I personally don’t see a problem with France setting certain rules for itself as a sovereign state. I would also expect respect to be shown to style of dress requirements in a place like Saudi Arabia. 

 In that case, if France is literally going to monitor dress code than it should be lumped in the same category as nations like Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea which all have strict dress codes that are illogical and petty and are enforced by the law. I don’t think France would like to be in that category. (Obviously those other countries are far worse for several other reasons but I’m talking strictly the level of control in terms of outerwear…it’s getting unhinged)

Edited August 28, 2023 by IBeMe

[Sheep]

Islamophobia isn't it at all but I think people not from France forget how recently that country was traumatized by religious terrorism. These things take time to heal and at least they aren't weaponizing their bigoted population to justify imperialist wars like a certain other country did in the 00s. 

[JoJo]

France colonized Middle Eastern and North African countries and are now banning the cultural attire of the very people they’ve oppressed. I just know Catholics who wear cross necklaces in public places aren’t receiving the same treatment even though it’s against the law too. 

[Windy Day]

11 minutes ago, JoJo said:

France colonized Middle Eastern and North African countries and are now banning the cultural attire of the very people they’ve oppressed. I just know Catholics who wear cross necklaces in public places aren’t receiving the same treatment even though it’s against the law too. 

you can't enter school if you're wearing a cross necklass. france is very strict when it comes to that kind of thing. hope it helps xx

[ctlp27]

36 minutes ago, IBeMe said:

 In that case, if France is literally going to monitor dress code than it should be lumped in the same category as nations like Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea which all have strict dress codes that are illogical and petty and are enforced by the law. I don’t think France would like to be in that category. (Obviously those other countries are far worse for several other reasons but I’m talking strictly the level of control in terms of outerwear…it’s getting unhinged)

This is not monitoring dress code but proselytism, which is a big nuance. Of course, people may agree or disagree with the decision.

[Trent W]

16 minutes ago, JoJo said:

France colonized Middle Eastern and North African countries and are now banning the cultural attire of the very people they’ve oppressed. I just know Catholics who wear cross necklaces in public places aren’t receiving the same treatment even though it’s against the law too. 

I kind of agree with the Christian/catholic example

 

But this is also a cultural pov, middle eastern countries are very extreme and radical with their rules and laws. France is only doing the same thing if we are fair.

 

You can’t really expect every country to adapt to someone else’s rules.

[Espresso]

A lot to unpack here. @ctlp27 I'm not familiar with the court rulings - has France already determined that religious dress is inherent proselytism?

 

The burqa's obvious from a behavioral and teaching enforcement standpoint but not this.

 

Whether a secular, taxpayer-funded institution (since this is only for public institutions) is inherently breaking separation of church and state by allowing them feels like a weak argument to me.

 

4 minutes ago, Windy Day said:

you can't enter school if you're wearing a cross necklace. france is very strict when it comes to that kind of thing. hope it helps xx

It's disingenuous to suggest both restrictions would be and are currently applied equally.

 

[ctlp27]

1 minute ago, Espresso said:

A lot to unpack here. @ctlp27 I'm not familiar with the court rulings - has France already determined that religious dress is inherent proselytism?

 

The burqa's obvious from a behavioral and teaching enforcement standpoint but not this.

 

Whether a secular, taxpayer-funded institution (since this is only for public institutions) is inherently breaking separation of church and state by allowing them feels like a weak argument to me.

 

It's disingenuous to suggest both restrictions would be and are currently applied equally.

 

Currently, these regulations are enforced uniformly, extending to public servants as well. Instances have arisen where certain mayors attempted to compel their respective City Halls to exhibit nativity scenes (during Christmas time); however, these endeavors were deemed unlawful by the judiciary in accordance with the established legislation.

 

To answer your question, the legislation implemented in 2004 concerning religious symbols in French public schools bars students from wearing items or garments that openly display their religious associations. According to an accompanying directive, these symbols encompass "the Islamic veil, regardless of its terminology, the yarmulke, or an overly conspicuous cross." Nonetheless, subtle religious symbols are still deemed permissible. This does not apply to private school by the way (so whether it is Catholic, Jewish or Muslim-governed).

Regarding abayas, based on my understanding, there has been a notable uptick in their adoption as of late. This surge seems to be propelled by the influence of social media, which appears to encourage students to embrace wearing the abaya. This trend is supported by official communications released by government entities.

It's important to highlight that the Minister was prompted to provide clarifications in response to inquiries from professors and school administrators. This indicates that the government didn't proactively address this issue, but rather responded to specific requests.

[Cain]

So they’re banning pretty dresses?

[JoJo]

21 minutes ago, Windy Day said:

you can't enter school if you're wearing a cross necklass. france is very strict when it comes to that kind of thing. hope it helps xx

And yet French school holidays still follow the Christian liturgical year. How is this not a preference of one religion over the others?

 

14 minutes ago, Trent W said:

I kind of agree with the Christian/catholic example

 

But this is also a cultural pov, middle eastern countries are very extreme and radical with their rules and laws. France is only doing the same thing if we are fair.

 

You can’t really expect every country to adapt to someone else’s rules.

It’s true that France can do whatever it wants, but I wish that people would stop acting like they care about Muslim girls. Modern abayas are just loose-fit maxi dresses. It’s not even religious. 

 

 

[Espresso]

8 minutes ago, ctlp27 said:

Currently, these regulations are enforced uniformly, extending to public servants as well. Instances have arisen where certain mayors attempted to compel their respective City Halls to exhibit nativity scenes (during Christmas time); however, these endeavors were deemed unlawful by the judiciary in accordance with the established legislation.

 

To answer your question, the legislation implemented in 2004 concerning religious symbols in French public schools bars students from wearing items or garments that openly display their religious associations. According to an accompanying directive, these symbols encompass "the Islamic veil, regardless of its terminology, the yarmulke, or an overly conspicuous cross." Nonetheless, subtle religious symbols are still deemed permissible. This does not apply to private school by the way (so whether it is Catholic, Jewish or Muslim-governed).

Regarding abayas, based on my understanding, there has been a notable uptick in their adoption as of late. This surge seems to be propelled by the influence of social media, which appears to encourage students to embrace wearing the abaya. This trend is supported by official communications released by government entities.

It's important to highlight that the Minister was prompted to provide clarifications in response to inquiries from professors and school administrators. This indicates that the government didn't proactively address this issue, but rather responded to specific requests.

Even giving the government, both local and national, the benefit of the doubt that the restrictions are being applied equally, which I'm loathe to do, can we unpack what I've bolded? What official communications have encouraged this or social media posts? From the Middle East?

[Badgalbriel]

Any religion should be discriminated in a civilized society. But they have to decide how they want to do it. They can't discriminate only one religion while supporting another. 

 

I'm all for them prohibiting this if they also prohibit anything catholic-related. 

[CaptainMusic]

I don’t think this is a big deal, it’s only a problem if they extend it to out of schools which would be ridiculous unlike the burqa.

 

France is not a Muslim country and can decide the dress code for their schools, the same way Middle Eastern countries do. 
 

1 minute ago, Badgalbriel said:

Any religion should be discriminated in a civilized society. But they have to decide how they want to do it. They can't discriminate only one religion while supporting another. 

 

I'm all for them prohibiting this if they also prohibit anything catholic-related. 

Agree 

[ctlp27]

10 minutes ago, Espresso said:

Even giving the government, both local and national, the benefit of the doubt that the restrictions are being applied equally, which I'm loathe to do, can we unpack what I've bolded? What official communications have encouraged this or social media posts? From the Middle East?

Apparently from social influencer or anonymous accounts indicating how to bypass the ban : source 1 and source 2

[dlwlrma]

well done 

[Talento]

They'll survive 

[Zaram]

6 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

Any religion should be discriminated in a civilized society. But they have to decide how they want to do it. They can't discriminate only one religion while supporting another. 

 

I'm all for them prohibiting this if they also prohibit anything catholic-related. 

They already banned christian crosses  and Judish kippa before.

[Beyonnaise]

1 hour ago, Century said:

Islamophobia isn't it at all but I think people not from France forget how recently that country was traumatized by religious terrorism. These things take time to heal and at least they aren't weaponizing their bigoted population to justify imperialist wars like a certain other country did in the 00s. 

Europe try not to “bbbbut America bad!” whenever your racism is brought up challenge (failed)