celeb news Roisin Murphy admits transphobia in awful statement; Ninja Tune ceases promotion

[mons†er]

1 hour ago, bestfiction said:

Doesn't look like her profile - doesn't have the ó and í in the name, she has a different profile picture and is verified on FB

 

https://m.facebook.com/roisinmurphy

 

thank you for this 

[Jessie]

10 minutes ago, Shimenawa said:

Yeah I don't believe she is transphobic but she must think you must be a certain age before making the decision to transition. That is not transphobia

And why is she qualified in making that statement? Just like how people who didn’t want to lower the age of consent for gay men in the UK because of “concerns” around children. You’re just wearing your ignorance on your sleeve.

[Kuntmonster]

Saying kids should wait before they start hormones is not transphobic  yall throw that word around too much. 

She is not showing dislike for trans people at all, she is saying people should probably hold off before they start to take life changing medication that alters your body forever

[Mornings]

She could easily just use google and find out she’s completely wrong in the medical and theoretical way she’s imagined this topic. But instead she finds it necessary to be ignorant and bigoted and does it publicly. It’s so funny to realize it doesn’t take a high IQ to be a renowned artist

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, SecretSecret said:

Not all the transphobic f*gs in this forum getting brave all of a sudden  If you don't know sh*t about how medical transition actually works, or your sources are some right wing newspaper, we really don't need to be subjected to your ignorant opinions.

Let alone the views are just... nonsensical in the name of fear-mongering?

 

"CHILDREN shouldn't MEDICALLY TRANSITION" is an insane comment in regards to puberty blockers.

Who.. experiences puberty?  

 

What does someone like @Minogue think about the common practice of endocrinologists utilizing GnRH agonists for children experiencing precocious puberty? And that these agonists are taken in cis children for precocious puberty often well before a trans child would be put in puberty blockers? Why is it framed as "irreversible" for trans people but understood as delaying puberty for cis? Do they understand that a trans child at 10 or 11 who goes on puberty blockers has to at one point end said blockers and then begin hormone replacement therapy or else, y'know, the puberty that aligns with their birth sex will begin developing? 

 

It's just so fundamentally anti-intellectualism at its core. 

[Jessie]

1 minute ago, Kuntmonster said:

Saying kids should wait before they start hormones is not transphobic  yall throw that word around too much. 

She is not showing dislike for trans people at all, she is saying people should probably hold off before they start to take life changing medication that alters your body forever

So cis children shouldn’t be allowed to take puberty blockers either to prevent distressing early on set of puberty? Or is it only trans children whose autonomy and body are treated as being “mixed up” and “forever altered”. And why is there so much faux concern around trans children and trans healthcare anyway from people who have no stake in having a medical opinion on this whatsoever — I’m thinking of a word that starts with trans and ends in phobia.

[SecretSecret]

19 minutes ago, Kuntmonster said:

Saying kids should wait before they start hormones is not transphobic  yall throw that word around too much. 

She is not showing dislike for trans people at all, she is saying people should probably hold off before they start to take life changing medication that alters your body forever

The thing is... kids aren't taking hormones, and no one in the trans community is advocating for that. Puberty blockers aren't hormones. And teenagers aren't kids.

 

The problem with her post, and all of the clearly uninformed people that have come here to ask us to "think about the children", is that, even if they're not necessarily fueled by a complete hatred for trans people or something, they're still making false claims that misrepresent trans people and what we're actually fighting for, and thus legitimizing transphobic discourse.

Edited August 23, 2023 by SecretSecret

[Jessie]

7 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

What? Finasteride does not suppress testosterone, just the opposite actually. It blocks 5-alpha-reductase which is the precursor to dihydrotestosterone that testosterone is converted to. Without that conversion taking place, testosterone goes up. 

The excess testosterone then gets converted by the body into estrogen which in effect lowers your levels which is why it’s considered an antiandrogen and the safest as a first prescription.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Jessie

[Mitsouko]

29 minutes ago, Jessie said:

Clearly her publicly posting her opposition to trans healthcare, running with the narrative that TERF is a slur against women and co-signing Glinner shows she isn’t, so glad we cleared that up 

Well she said to stop using it in reference to all women like herself who might have questions, concerns, blind spots, or negative opinions. She is right, because none of those things make you a trans exclusionary radical feminist. None of those things mean you deny on principle the validity of a trans person’s identity or existence. So no, that word should not be referred to all women who have different opinions than you. It’s for the JK Rowlings of the world who live with hate for all trans people and who seek to exclude them (it’s in the name) from normal life; it’s not for a woman who thinks people should go through puberty. The old hag should shut the **** up because she’s loud and bitter a lot online, but she’s not a TERF.

[SecretSecret]

Also, why is everyone reducing her message to "kids shouldn't have hormones"? There are various transphobic dogwhistles in that post: she thinks that rightfully calling a woman a TERF is hate speech, and mentions Big Pharma, alluding to some sort of conspiracy to "transify" children. How is that not transphobic?

 

[Jessie]

1 minute ago, Mitsouko said:

Well she said to stop using it in reference to all women who might have questions, concerns, blind spots, or negative opinions. She is right, because none of those things make you a trans exclusionary radical feminist. None of those things mean you deny on principle the validity of a trans person’s identity or existence. So no, that word should not be referred to all women who have different opinions than you. It’s for the JK Rowlings of the world who live with hate for all trans people and who seek to exclude them (it’s in the name) from normal life; it’s not for a woman who thinks people should go through puberty. The old hag should shut the **** up because she’s loud and bitter a lot online, but she’s not a TERF.

It doesn’t matter what the nuance of her intention is when she is publicly co-signing one of the most notorious TERFs in the country and multiple gender critical narratives in one post that continues to materially harm the trans community.

 

Not only does that not make you a staunch ally but someone actively engaging in harm to the “community” as you put in. And she should know better.

[Jessie]

1 minute ago, SecretSecret said:

Also, why is everyone reducing her message to "kids shouldn't have hormones"? There are various transphobic dogwhistles in that post: she thinks that rightfully calling a woman a TERF is hate speech, and mentions Big Pharma, alluding to some sort of conspiracy to "transify" children. How is that not transphobic?

 

But she’s just displaying legitimate concerns and her own nuanced opinion, she is still a staunch ally and shouldn’t be called out etc etc like people forget how insidious bigotry is and should be challenged in all its forms which not only includes educating (and Google is a free resource anyway) but public pressure, particularly when it’s a public figure whose audience will largely consist of said community and their allies  

[Mitsouko]

1 minute ago, Jessie said:

It doesn’t matter what the nuance of her intention is when she is publicly co-signing one of the most notorious TERFs in the country and multiple gender critical narratives in one post that continues to materially harm the trans community.

 

Not only does that not make you a staunch ally but someone actively engaging in harm to the “community” as you put in. And she should know better.

Certainly I agree that she should know better. I’m also keeping in mind that we don’t even have confirmation yet (?) that this is the real Roisin Murphy.  If it is, that’s disappointing, but as someone who is neither trans nor paid to defend a rich entertainer, I don’t have much more to say except that I believe the real Roisin Murphy is not transphobic based the last 30 years of her life and career.

[campelo]

oh well, sad 

 

anyway stream hit parade either way  

 

maybe thats not even her, people are eager to hate someone 

Edited August 23, 2023 by campelo

[Communion]

36 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

What? Finasteride does not suppress testosterone, just the opposite actually. It blocks 5-alpha-reductase which is the precursor to dihydrotestosterone that testosterone is converted to. Without that conversion taking place, testosterone goes up. 

 

29 minutes ago, Jessie said:

The excess testosterone then gets converted by the body into estrogen which in effect lowers your levels which is why it’s considered an antiandrogen and the safest as a first proscription.

Yes, for clarity, in the context of *cis men*, the interest in the drug is its impact on the creation of DHT, because reducing the levels of DHT is what helps stop the process of hair loss. But if someone is taking Finasteride, these processes aren't just.. separable from one another. You can't get the reduction in levels of DHT but then not experience then that the excess of testosterone converts to estrogen. These two processes are not removed from one another.

 

So when the selling point is the reduction in DHT for the cosmetic interest of largely cis men, suddenly it's a miracle drug, better than Rogaine/Minoxidil, etc. And then the side-effects are just kind of brushed off, etc. There's literally instagram ads for products that utilize topical finasteride, etc. Men lifestyle influencers literally promote finasteride. 

 

Yet when the interest is not in the properties to stop the conversion of testosterone into DHT because you want to look sexier or more physically attraction as a man with a full head of hair but in the interest in capturing and promoting the conversion of excess testosterone into estrogen paired with other medications to change certain secondary sex traits, suddenly the rhetoric shifts to fear-mongering. HRT is deemed as "sterilization". Far-rightists love using terminology like that. 

 

To be trans and want to transition is framed as "BEING STERILIZED" yet this language simply isn't used when discussing the average cis man being insecure about his ****** up hairline, because the concern isn't actually health when, yes, infertility is indeed similarly a possible side-effect of taking Finasteride for hair loss. The chemical properties that risk infertility in different HRT medications is what make the usage of Finasteride similarly have the risk of infertility. Everyone is eating out of the same trough despite not wanting to admit to it.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Communion

[Headlock]

14 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

 

Estradiol is an estrogen hormone.

[madonnas]

What she said is definitely transphobic I mean there’s really no way around it. I hope that she’s just having a boomer ignorant moment and switches lol ….   

[Bloodflowers.]

I only know her songs under Moloko band

[Bimbo]

“Please stop calling women that word!!! 🙏🙏🙏” lmfao this idiot  

[Jessie]

18 minutes ago, nostalgic said:

 

Increased testosterone is aromatised into estrogen which is why it’s considered the safest, baseline option when prescribing antiandrogens, including when you are first seen by the GIC in the UK — it’s also why trans people are prescribed 5mg not 1mg so it is more likely to have the desired lowering effect. It’s not as effective as a straightforward AA by itself but if it really increased trans women’s testosterone by 10%+ do you think it would be such a standard part of trans healthcare 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Jessie

[SecretSecret]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

To be trans and want to transition is framed as "BEING STERILIZED" yet this language simply isn't used when discussing the average cis man being insecure about his ****** up hairline, because the concern isn't actually health when, yes, infertility is indeed similarly a possible side-effect of taking Finasteride for hair loss.

Cis people go through all kinds of medical procedures to affirm themselves in their gender and no one ever expresses any concerns.

 

When I was like 10 (younger than these trans teens who use puberty blockers) my mother seriously  considered making me go through growth hormone injections just because I was a short boy. For legitimately no other reason than "boys are tall", I didn't have any serious medical problem. She said that even if I didn't want to then, "I would thank her one day". 

 

All those worried about the "very dangerous" procedures that actually help trans people feel comfortable in society just have a deep-rooted disgust for the idea of transness in itself. It's always easier to rationalize your negative feelings against trans people as "legitimate concerns" than actually confronting the true cause for those feelings, admitting that you're not a perfectly rational individual, and societal biases have affected negatively your understanding of the trans reality.

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, Jessie said:

Increased testosterone is aromatised into estrogen which is why it’s considered the safest, baseline option when prescribing antiandrogens, including when you are first seen by the GIC in the UK — it’s also why trans people are prescribed 5mg not 1mg so it is more likely to have the desired lowering effect. It’s not as effective as a straightforward AA by itself but if it really increased trans women’s testosterone by 10%+ do you think it would be such a standard part of trans healthcare 

Yeah, I'm not sure why the user is trying to be pedantic. No one is shaming anyone for taking Finasteride.

 

It's the most easily grabbed example of such medications being prescribed to both cis people and trans people because its prescription to cis people is largely cosmetic. You do not need a full head of hair to be healthy.

 

So it makes for an easier comparison that worries over "STERILIZING MEDICATIONS!!" are disingenuous when young men are told to try what is largely the same medication if they want to go back to being sexy hunks.

 

It's also a good contrast because even young men in their teens - 16, 17 - have been told to try it to deal with the onset of male pattern baldness. There's literally reddit forms of young cis men eagerly discussing how to both procurr and best take these complex medications for what are largely gendered ideas they have over their self-image, but yet these men are not the target of the kind of contempt reserved for trans people, who are framed as sickly or mentally ill.

 

One could easily point to other examples like progesterone being a go-to medication in the treatment of prostate cancer of cis men, yet also being part of a typical medication regimen for trans women who are medically transitioning.

[P.O.P]

This is y'alls queen? Maybe get picky next time before stanning garbaj like Noisin Machine.

[Escape]

I only listened to Roisin Machine anyway and it was exhausting.

[Jessie]

@Communion and @SecretSecret thank you for putting it so well; I just hope it gives people who think Roisin has a “sensible” take reason to pause and think on why they have that base, kneejerk reaction when it comes to trans youth.