celeb news Roisin Murphy admits transphobia in awful statement; Ninja Tune ceases promotion

[Mitsouko]

33 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

 

You sound like some kind of free speech absolutist - which is ironic because you’ve been battling against many posts here that are using their free speech to call Róisín out on her dumb comments 

I haven’t, actually. I’ve said more than once that people are justified in taking offense. I have a problem with the sweeping generalizations that were made here against members including myself. I’m not policing anyone’s opinion of Roisin Murphy, but I can call  out accusations of fascism on ATRL if I want to because it’s absolutely absurd and unserious  
 

Denying the Holocaust and violently espousing hate speech =/= an isolated (for now) incident of a screenshot of a basically private discussion which ended with the other involved party calling it productive, and for which an apology and admission of guilt was made days ago. Weird comparison.

[HonourableVomit]

46 minutes ago, Mak said:

This “if her heart is in the right place” rhetoric doesn’t sit well with me… when people spew transphobic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic or hateful speech and justify it by wrapping it up in a bow saying it comes from a place of love doesn’t mean it is, it’s coming from a place of prejudice, intolerance and ignorance, not love! 

I agree. 
My point is that Roisin Murphy is someone who has collaborated with trans and queer artists, performed at Pride festivals and consistently used her platform to inspire us. That's how she organically attracted a queer fanbase, not just through making "pop bops aimed at the gays" or whatever. The comment that blew up was from a private facebook group & not a public announcement or entrenchment in views ala JK Rowling, it was the people on twitter sharing screenshots that allowed the terfs to come flocking and rally around her.

 

It's such a waste that this blew up instead of her ignorance being addressed by the people in her circle, as it now is in private, because like I said in my original post in this thread it is the practical and unfortunate reality that the responsibility for allies to fight the ignorance about topics like puberty blockers that have been harnessed for fearmongering by the mainstream media. Not everyone is going to "get it" or understand the trans experience without guidance, and if you think a woman who has built a serious connection with queer people in the past is beyond redemption or education after falling prey to misinformation once in her two decades of public presence then we fundamentally disagree on how to connect with people and change their minds about this. Labelling her a terf and publicly shaming her (judging from how much she emphasised it in the comment) could very easily have gone the other way and caused an emotional, defensive reaction that sent her into the arms of mumsnet, but she hasn't done that (yet) and hopefully won't as long as she's open to listening, which given her views historically I believe she is.   

 

 

[campelo]

2 hours ago, HonourableVomit said:

 

I mean in this thread we had size 20 font bolded "Roisin Murphy wants trans kids to kill themselves!" at one point   

 

At some point they were writing here expecting that she would do that herself 

[Both Sides Now]

3 hours ago, Mitsouko said:

I haven’t, actually. I’ve said more than once that people are justified in taking offense. I have a problem with the sweeping generalizations that were made here against members including myself. I’m not policing anyone’s opinion of Roisin Murphy, but I can call  out accusations of fascism on ATRL if I want to because it’s absolutely absurd and unserious  

Interesting - Because you “Thanked” the two posts that called users here fascists for criticising Róisín. 

 

3 hours ago, Mitsouko said:

Denying the Holocaust and violently espousing hate speech =/= an isolated (for now) incident of a screenshot of a basically private discussion which ended with the other involved party calling it productive, and for which an apology and admission of guilt was made days ago. Weird comparison.

I didn’t suggest it was? But your flimsy “wEll aCtUalLy” definition of fascism could be used as an argument for allowing hate speech, Holocaust denial, or ,you know, calling trans people pedos and child abusers. Which is what Graham Linehan calls trans people - you know the guy who Róisín was having a ~productive~ conversation about trans children with 
 

But keep enlightening us about how both sides are wrong - but you’ll only criticise those who are disappointed with Róisín and “Thank” users who call us fascists 

[The7thStranger]

Róisín's uninformed views are certainly problematic and have done harm to a community she's always been involved in. There is no question about that. That being said, some of the interpretations of her apology are troubling and illogical.

 

3 hours ago, HonourableVomit said:

I agree. 
My point is that Roisin Murphy is someone who has collaborated with trans and queer artists, performed at Pride festivals and consistently used her platform to inspire us. That's how she organically attracted a queer fanbase, not just through making "pop bops aimed at the gays" or whatever. The comment that blew up was from a private facebook group & not a public announcement or entrenchment in views ala JK Rowling, it was the people on twitter sharing screenshots that allowed the terfs to come flocking and rally around her.

 

It's such a waste that this blew up instead of her ignorance being addressed by the people in her circle, as it now is in private, because like I said in my original post in this thread it is the practical and unfortunate reality that the responsibility for allies to fight the ignorance about topics like puberty blockers that have been harnessed for fearmongering by the mainstream media. Not everyone is going to "get it" or understand the trans experience without guidance, and if you think a woman who has built a serious connection with queer people in the past is beyond redemption or education after falling prey to misinformation once in her two decades of public presence then we fundamentally disagree on how to connect with people and change their minds about this. Labelling her a terf and publicly shaming her (judging from how much she emphasised it in the comment) could very easily have gone the other way and caused an emotional, defensive reaction that sent her into the arms of mumsnet, but she hasn't done that (yet) and hopefully won't as long as she's open to listening, which given her views historically I believe she is.   

 

 

This pretty much sums up my feelings on it. All in all, a very, very disappointing turn of events, and I hope that she is able to grow in the future (and also that people can put down the pitchforks).

[*.Digambar.*]

Roisin is transphobic terf. There's no way around to it. And no, as a transwoman, it's not up to us to educate someone who has been emerged in the LGBT culture for so long and used our culture to her benefit. To the ppl who is asking to give her the benefit of the doubt, would u give a racist or a homophobe benefit of the doubt of they were parroting talking points made by the far right to demonize a marginalized group? **** that ****. 

[Mitsouko]

8 hours ago, Both Sides Now said:

Interesting - Because you “Thanked” the two posts that called users here fascists for criticising Róisín. 

 

I didn’t suggest it was? But your flimsy “wEll aCtUalLy” definition of fascism could be used as an argument for allowing hate speech, Holocaust denial, or ,you know, calling trans people pedos and child abusers. Which is what Graham Linehan calls trans people - you know the guy who Róisín was having a ~productive~ conversation about trans children with 
 

But keep enlightening us about how both sides are wrong - but you’ll only criticise those who are disappointed with Róisín and “Thank” users who call us fascists 

I agreed with those posts when they were posted  Then you and other members who are in favor of the removal and erasure of her career made it clear that you’re the only ones allowed to accuse fascism and draw provocative political parallels; when it’s done by those with whom you disagree suddenly it’s not allowed and only then is it ridiculous and flimsy, which of course it was the whole time no matter who was doing it, and which is why I suggested we move on from it totally. My mind doesn't need to be changed, so idk why you keep quoting me. We think differently about what’s happening to her career and that’s okay. Spend time arguing with someone who actually agrees with what she said, if you want, or someone who actually believes TERFs will be buying her tickets and colored variants.

[Both Sides Now]

1 minute ago, Mitsouko said:

I agreed with those posts when they were posted  Then you and other members who are in favor of the removal and erasure of her career made it clear that you’re the only ones allowed to accuse fascism and draw provocative political parallels; when it’s done by those with whom you disagree suddenly it’s not allowed and only then is it ridiculous and flimsy, which of course it was the whole time no matter who was doing it, and which is why I suggested we move on from it totally. My mind doesn't need to be changed, so idk why you keep quoting me. We think differently about what’s happening to her career and that’s okay. Spend time arguing with someone who actually agrees with what she said, if you want, or someone who actually believes TERFs will be buying her tickets and colored variants.

Actually definition of fascism is not decided by either of us  It’s already a thing and LGBT people cannot be fascist because we fundamentally contradict the goal of fascism. Come up with a new word if you want to cry about people criticising Róisín. How about Wokerazi 

 

Also, look through my posts. I never called any of you fascists. That was only Alongoria13 and those who co-signed them (you). I’m quoting you because I find it hilarious that you are grandstanding about not calling people fascists over this topic when you co-signed two posts that did exactly that  And now you’re backtracking and saying you agreed that we’re fascists for saying her comments were sh*tty. Pick a narrative and stick to it. 

[Communion]

16 hours ago, Mitsouko said:

silencing dissenting voices

The 20 homosexuals who were going to buy her commercial pop music album now no longer choosing to buy said album is not "silence", nor is it when businesses choose to not have her in their venue when you double-down and court controversy involving militant, violent groups like TERFs. She's not being silenced. She's fully getting what she wanted - realizing what value her ideas hold as capital when freely expressed by her in the free marketplace of ideas. 

 

Right-wingers using the state apparatus to deny someone health services is silencing, is violence.

Right-wing propaganda that defends the state's inaction when violence against trans people occurs is silence.

Sharing the opinion you're entitled to have that "80% of trans people are gay people with mutilated genitals" and people being like "wow this person's kind of crazy! I don't wanna give her my money!" is not "silence". 

[Communion]

14 hours ago, HonourableVomit said:

after falling prey to misinformation once in her two decades

Sis, you've been trying to defend this and downplay her views since the beginning. 

• First you said it wasn't her.
  • It was then shown it was her account
• You then said she must have been taken out of context.
  • It was then shown she wasn't.
• You then asserted she was going to clear the air.
  • She then co-signed a comment calling being trans a lie and that there is no such thing as trans child.
• You then claimed this was too out of character and needs further elaboration from her.
  • She then made a statement saying the views she expressed are fixed and are not going to change. 
• Now it's "well... she was only duped into being a TERF just ONCE..."

 

You'll make a quip like this:

16 hours ago, HonourableVomit said:

I mean in this thread we had size 20 font bolded "Roisin Murphy wants trans kids to kill themselves!" at one point

yet refuse to acknowledge that such was in response to her - again - co-signing the opinion that "AT LEAST 80% OF TRANS PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY CIS HOMOSEXUALS BEING MUTILATED AND CHEMICALLY CASTRATED BY CHILD ABUSING DOCTORS". 

 

How much of a dope does one need to be if their 'first time being duped" leads them to co-sign and parrot highly-detailed, anti-trans talking points that cite debunked junk science and which make such sweeping generalities like over four-fifth's of all trans people in the world are not actually trans?

 

How do you propose she "be educated" if your reaction to the debunking of the junk science she has clearly invested large portions of her recent life learning is to call people "fascists" for recognizing that the call to remove trans people out of existence is... to want trans people to kill themselves?

 

How else should she learn than be told that people who she's swearing are experts and feeding her misinformation (which she accepts as truth - in her "fixed" views) don't support women and gays but explicitly want trans people dead? 

 

Your inability to "cope" - as you say - with someone you stan having hateful views is not anyone else's burden to not react in the way proportional way to the bigotry shared:

I'm sorry but the instagram comment she co-signed and pinned is just too much. It was exterminationist in intent and tone. It literally mirrored the most hateful kind of anti-trans rhetoric there is, protected by the veil of anonymity. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Communion

[worldwide angel]

16 hours ago, Mitsouko said:

I’m good on research thank you. You quoted me like I defended her, which I didn’t. I pointed out that one side in here was cherry picking what was fascistic about the other side’s argument, ignoring what was plainly fascistic about their own, and this was to make a point about the rabbit hole of that kind of finger-pointing in a venue that really isn’t right for that kind of charged discourse, and I suggested that it was for the best we moving on from calling each other fascists altogether. It’s perfectly reasonable.

i responded the way because you're still claiming that people are cherry picking what is fascist and what's not. people calling someone out for the transphobia is not a fascist tactic, people regurgitating bigoted rhetoric and then hiding behind ignorance or free speech is in fact a fascist tactic. its a performance of ignorance to disguise their true beliefs.

its actually really disingenuous to boil down actual concerns about transphobia and fascism to "finger-pointing". when people do something harmful, when people are parroting dangerous talking points, they deserve to be called out. we may not know every single thing in the world, but we all know what's kind, what's not kind, and what's discriminatory. and i'm sure roisin at her big age knows the difference as well.

 

if someone walks like a fascist, and talks like a fascist, guess what? they're a fascist. the people in this thread are not throwing out that term to silence people or to malign people's character. that word carries a lot of weight and people should be alarmed when fascist talking points are going mainstream. 

[Mitsouko]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

The 20 homosexuals who were going to buy her commercial pop music album now no longer choosing to buy said album is not "silence", nor is it when businesses choose to not have her in their venue when you double-down and court controversy involving militant, violent groups like TERFs.

You’re right, it’s not, and people should cancel their pre-orders and delete her discography from their libraries if they feel they should. But actually reaching out to venues and promoters and festivals to tell them to drop her, and hounding her collaborators and producers on their socials to stop working with her or even just pressing them to give their own opinions in a discussion which they shouldn’t be involved in, is 100% doing the most and is misplaced energy. Just don’t go see her, don’t buy any of her ****. But trying to cut her off from the only livelihood she’s ever known because you disagree with her, or she with you, and trying to get others to do the same, is darksided and is where the disturbing historical parallels can be drawn. Because she’s wrong doesn’t mean you can’t be wrong too.

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, Mitsouko said:

You’re right, it’s not, and people should cancel their pre-orders and delete her discography from their libraries if they feel they should. But actually reaching out to venues and promoters and festivals to tell them to drop her, and hounding her collaborators and producers on their socials to stop working with her or even just pressing them to give their own opinions in a discussion which they shouldn’t be involved in, is 100% doing the most and is misplaced energy. Just don’t go see her, don’t buy any of her ****. But trying to cut her off from the only livelihood she’s ever known because you disagree with her, or she with you, and trying to get others to do the same, is darksided and is where the disturbing historical parallels can be drawn. Because she’s wrong doesn’t mean you can’t be wrong too.

I think you're still trying to cope with her being a bigot and I just hope you don't continue to enable her bad behavior as you try to process and come to face reality.

[EnigmaticAndroid]

Whew the scalpings in here 

[Uncatena]

calling it a disagreement is so ******* manipulative, too

[HonourableVomit]

8 hours ago, Communion said:

Sis, you've been trying to defend this and downplay her views since the beginning. 

• First you said it wasn't her.
  • It was then shown it was her account
• You then said she must have been taken out of context.
  • It was then shown she wasn't.
• You then asserted she was going to clear the air.
  • She then co-signed a comment calling being trans a lie and that there is no such thing as trans child.
• You then claimed this was too out of character and needs further elaboration from her.
  • She then made a statement saying the views she expressed are fixed and are not going to change. 
• Now it's "well... she was only duped into being a TERF just ONCE..."

 

Oh? We can actually disagree about how the situation has been handled without you bold-faced lying to antagonise me. If you were digging through my posts on the subject you should've been able to quote all these things.

 

• First you said it wasn't her.

  My very first post on the subject: 

On 8/24/2023 at 5:02 PM, HonourableVomit said:

I believe the account & comment belong to her. 

• You then said she must have been taken out of context.

I didn't. We've still only seen two cropped screenshots of comments in a Facebook thread, that's all I've said. I condemned the content of her comment regardless of the context. What I did say was that viewing that in isolation betrays the big picture.  

 

• You then asserted she was going to clear the air.

Assuming you mean me hoping that we'd get a statement to protect her trans fans from social media harassment? Yeah, she should've, and I criticised her for not doing enough.

  

On 8/28/2023 at 8:54 PM, HonourableVomit said:

The last slither of hope I have remaining is that Grahame Linehan deleted his tweet asking his nutjob followers to support and defend her. Hopefully her or team contacted him to let him know he wasn't welcome. Damage is very much done though and a statement directly from her opposing it would've done wonders more for stopping the mess and hopefully deterring the terfs from polluting her fan circles & social media. 

• You then claimed this was too out of character and needs further elaboration from her.

  

On 8/28/2023 at 9:10 AM, HonourableVomit said:

The pinned comment and even the vague idea of "transing our gay youth" is completely stupid and reprehensible though. I am so shocked/disappointed by her. The silence was concerning but I had hoped it was because she was seeking advice from her friends within the community, now it doesn't seem like she's interested in learning at all. That ******* sucks. 

  

• She then made a statement saying the views she expressed are fixed and are not going to change. 

She said fixed views aren't helpful. I understand why you & the people who were calling her hag, c*nt, *****, etc would like to interpret her apology in the most cynical possible way and that's fine, but I've already explained in my first and latest post why I'm personally treating this as a lot more nuanced and it doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that I love her music. The latest information we have is testimony from queer people who have been having productive discussions with her in private, that doesn't suggest to me that her views are not able to be changed. You're willing to reach for some nonsense like a faceless bot-looking instagram profile being her personal private hate-spreading account but you won't acknowledge any part of the situation that doesn't paint her in the way you're convinced of. 

 

On 8/28/2023 at 9:33 AM, HonourableVomit said:

She obviously pinned the comment she agreed with, and it had so few likes because it's ******* stupid and by far the minority opinion. It's not like she pinned it right after it was posted either, it was days old. I'm not defending her, there is enough actual evidence of her spreading transphobic misinformation here without having to jump to conjecture. 

 

Is that downplaying? I've condemned her comment, her silence and her insufficient apology. 

Hoping for a potential positive resolution to an all-around negative situation doesn't make me a blind stan coping. Every step of the list above is me hoping for the best at each development. 

Whatever point you thought you were making about how I was coping -  yeah, I was making a self-aware joke about how I'm viewing the situation optimistically. That doesn't involve discounting the other views or invalidating anyone's reaction to the matter, cherry-picking or misrepresenting other posters like you've just done. I've agreed with a lot of what you've posted in this thread and co-signed a few. 

 

  

9 hours ago, Communion said:

How much of a dope does one need to be if their 'first time being duped" leads them to co-sign and parrot highly-detailed, anti-trans talking points that cite debunked junk science and which make such sweeping generalities like over four-fifth's of all trans people in the world are not actually trans?

 

How do you propose she "be educated" if your reaction to the debunking of the junk science she has clearly invested large portions of her recent life learning is to call people "fascists" for recognizing that the call to remove trans people out of existence is... to want trans people to kill themselves?

Yeah, a 50 year old woman falling prey to junk science on Facebook. That's a daily occurrence courtesy of their insidious algorithms. How do you propose we fix that issue? I say communication but maybe you have a better way.

 

Has she clearly invested large portions of her recent life learning about it? If you're going to accuse me of making too many assumptions then you shouldn't be relying on them either. She came on stage beaming at Mighty Hoopla 3 months ago to a field of screaming queer people after Shon Faye's speech had them chanting "trans power." That's what I would call using her platform, not a facebook comment in a private thread or pinning and unpinning a vile instagram comment that she hadn't even given a like/heart to which is how she engages with the replies on all of her other posts; I've followed her much more closely than you and I maintain the entire situation has been weird and out of character. 

 

And please do quote me on where you say I've written the word fascist.

 

And all that because I said alienation is not the way to combat misinformation? Girl. 

 

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, HonourableVomit said:

I understand why you & the people who were calling her hag, c*nt, *****, etc

All that nonsense about feeling misquoted just to then say something stupid like this.  People and WHO?

 

You: *mock people who said Roisin's views get trans people killed and cause trans suicide*

Me: *point out that this random jab is you still trying to defend her*

You, nervously: *randomly make up that everyone who disagrees with you defending Roisin's transphobia is actually a misogynist*

 

I didn't call her a hag. I didn't call her a c*nt. I didn't call her what I imagine is you trying to say wh*re? 

I called her cruel. I called her insensitive. I called her violent.

 

You then decided these negative feelings people had towards her inherently *violent* and *exterminationist* rhetoric were somehow worth being mocked and punched down on, because you then downplayed the harm of her rhetoric cause I guess you're still not willing to cope with and accept the questionable morality in whatever over-expensive $50 vinyl you've pre-ordered from her now that she's platformed genocide-like rhetoric against a part of the LGBT community? 

 

"Saying her words get people killed is no different than calling her a wh*re!" is a ******* wildly embarrassing bad-faith attempt at defending some pop star you've projected onto.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Communion

[Communion]

Also I'm sorry but this is so funny:

14 minutes ago, HonourableVomit said:

pinning and unpinning a vile instagram comment that she hadn't even given a like/heart to

"She only pinned and promoted a comment saying being trans is a conversion therapy ideology against gay people on her post where people were in the comments upset! But it's not like she LIKED the comment in itself?? So you saying her rhetoric - that 80% of trans people are actually autistic gay people being exploited by Big Pharma - is violent and causes suicides of trans people shows you're just being dramatic trying to tear a woman down!!"

 

I hope that vinyl pre-order is worth it. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Communion

[HonourableVomit]

14 minutes ago, Communion said:

All that nonsense about feeling misquoted just to then say something stupid like this.  People and WHO?

 

You: *mock people who said Roisin's views get trans people killed and cause trans suicide*

Me: *point out that this random jab is you still trying to defend her*

You, nervously: *randomly make up that everyone who disagrees with you defending Roisin is actually a minsogynst*

 

I didn't call her a hag. I didn't call her a c*nt. I didn't call her what I imagine is you trying to wh*re? 

I called her cruel. I called her insensitive. I called her violent.

 

You then decided these negative feelings people had towards her inherently *violent* and *exterminationist* rhetoric were somehow worth being mocked and punched down on, because you have to downplay the harm of her rhetoric cause I guess you're still not willing to cope with and accept the questionable morality in whatever over-expensive $50 vinyl you've pre-ordered from her now that she's platformed genocide-like rhetoric against a part of the LGBT community. 

  

14 minutes ago, Communion said:

"Saying her words get people killed is no different than calling her a wh*re!" is a ******* wildly embarrassing bad-faith attempt at defending some pop star you've projected onto.

 

 

um  what even is this reply 

 

I'm not saying she's a victim of misogyny, because she isn't. It was to collectivize the pages and pages of people writing her off with no closer inspection when they probably didn't know who she was last week. Those were just the words they chose, I'm not going to bother quoting them all because it's immaterial. 

 

Mocking and punching down? Where? If you're talking about me mentioning the big bold "Roisin Murphy wants trans kids to kill themselves" copy paste post - we just fundamentally disagree on how to communicate. 

 

Like I said, I've agreed with you on a lot of the things you've said. I'm not going to reply to you any more though because you're not interested in my posts it seems. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by HonourableVomit

[Communion]

18 minutes ago, HonourableVomit said:

It was to collectivize the pages and pages of people writing her off with no closer inspection

Except the only reason I quoted you was to address you literally mocking my post that said her rhetoric makes it clear she doesn't care if trans people kill themselves. I don't care if other people have called her gross names or are just dunking on her because she's a quirky indie flop in the UK or something.

 

That doesn't change the objective fact that the pinned comment she co-signed was so inherently violent and detailed with its anti-trans hate that I feel very ******* comfortable saying that someone that deeply into anti-trans rhetoric first needs to be kept away from trans people for trans people's safety before being educated about anything. You don't stumble upon the idea that trans people are a product of Big Pharma castrating autistic gay children by accident. You don't fall into parroting and platforming this rhetoric by happen-chance and casual disagreements due to ignorance.

 

I don't need to know her to know if her rhetoric on trans people is violent. And based on her rhetoric, I don't want to get to know someone like her. You can have the delusion that maybe she'll magically one day snap out of it and walk back what is clearly at least months of indoctrination and radicalization into far-right rhetoric. That's perfectly fine for you, but you're not more "nuanced" and "understanding" for being willing to give the "they're coming after your kids!!" songstress more and more chances to show that maybe she won't find most trans people as living a lie. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Communion

[chhalamars]

Another woman vilified for having the wrong opinion. It's absurd. The industry hats are already cancelling all her gigs, and of course people are still gonna say cancel culture is not a thing. 

 

I'm embarassed to read all the gay men going against a woman that showed nothing but love for us all these years. The burn the witch attitude of it. Shameful. 

 

 

[Uncatena]

1 hour ago, chhalamars said:

Another woman vilified for having the wrong opinion. It's absurd. The industry hats are already cancelling all her gigs, and of course people are still gonna say cancel culture is not a thing. 

 

I'm embarassed to read all the gay men going against a woman that showed nothing but love for us all these years. The burn the witch attitude of it. Shameful. 

 

 

the Jared Leto avi really is the cherry on top of this turd comment 

[MusicIsMyMaster]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:15 PM, Blue Jeans said:

Wow! I don't agree with her, and trans rights matter.. but after 3 years of working on this (acclaimed if this did not happen) album, which is also a baby of the great DJ Koze who worked on the production separately during the lockdown, she is going to get canceled because of the controversial one sentence response about a very controversial topic on Facebook? Has anyone tried to talk to her and educate about the topic instead? Are you all going to cancel your conservative (grand)parents who probably don't even support gay marriage, let alone trans people? What about artists who never talk about politics at all? 

This is exactly what Ive been trying to say. 

[khalyan]

The problem for me came from her awful statement. 
 

I personally didn’t “cancel” her for her Facebook posts. But I felt uncomfortable still listening to her after the statement she released. 
 

Had she said any of what y’all are wanting her to say, such as “I don’t feel educated on this topic and would like to change that and become educated, so I apologize to those I hurt and I will try to be better” then I would have felt okay about what happened.  
 

Sometimes people make mistakes, sometimes people are uneducated, it happens but the refusal to shape her viewpoint after this all happened is what was most frustrating to me. 

[Hurem]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:07 PM, ChapelHooker said:

i see this bullshit all over the internet, even here. this ******* "lets have a TALK! lets DISCUSS and LEARN!" bullshit. we are so ******* beyond that

We are not beyond that though? If you don't want people to continue to have discussions about this, you'll be left with a whole lot of people who are all about far-right talking points when it comes to trans rights. I've experienced even my most liberal straight friends falling into the vortex of far-right propaganda and it was discussion what got them out of it.

 

I understand it can be frustrating, especially when it comes from people you'd least expect it from, but we must educate people. That's the only way to move forward.