Käärijä Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 I hate to break it to you but most of yalls girls didn't bring anything new to the table. As much as it hurts I have to agree that Gaga is mainly the only one who created a before and after and completely created a new paradigm out of the blue. The other girls just stuck to one archetype and maybe brought old influences to the new realm of pop (Lana or Taylor). The only one that comes close to Gaga might be Rosalia with her last two studio albums, but she wouldn't be as successful if it wasn't for her basic reggaeton smashes. Billie is kind of interesting too but her formula seems too Lordesque although the finished product sounds much more polished and therefore attract much more positive critic reviews.
Wicked Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Kristie Kuwa said: Beyonce has contributed to 2 big shifts in the industry: 1) Rap-Singing. Like Wyclef Jean said himself, what Bey did on the No No No Remix, which ended up becoming a big hit in the US and defining not only DCs, but in particular Beyonces sound, was unheard of. The fusion of rap-esque staccato delivery and melodic RnB singing was not a thing before Beyonce/DC brought it to the table. She singlehandedly changed the course of RnB music. Trust and believe, there would be no Drake without Beyonce. No, there would "be no Drake" without people like Bone Thugs N Harmony which y'all conveniently forget when trying to say this
thetea Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 Taylor has popularised bedroom pop music in the last few years with the release of folklore / evermore / midnights, as well as making it popular to make songwriting a big part of an artists brand. some of the things people claim she's done for the industry is a stretch, but she has influenced musical trends and what people look for in artists (songwriting). 1
slw84 Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 4 hours ago, 1989 said: In your attempt to list every notable female artist that debuted before Taylor, you listed two that debuted after, so how exactly are they her “predecessors”? not sure why you are so angry and upset. The last two are not her predecessors. I just decided to list them as I was listing from yesteryear to current.
Kristie Kuwa Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Wicked said: No, there would "be no Drake" without people like Bone Thugs N Harmony which y'all conveniently forget when trying to say this Which is because he wasnt that impactful. Thanks for supporting my argument. Bey was the vehicle that popularized that shift in sound (not to say she invented it, but she was the catalyst that sparked its popularity in the POP world). I take Wyclefs assessment over yours quite frankly Edited August 16, 2023 by Kristie Kuwa
Wicked Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Kristie Kuwa said: Which is because he wasnt that impactful.
Welovetrouble Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 5 hours ago, Kristie Kuwa said: Beyonce has contributed to 2 big shifts in the industry: 1) Rap-Singing. Like Wyclef Jean said himself, what Bey did on the No No No Remix, which ended up becoming a big hit in the US and defining not only DCs, but in particular Beyonces sound, was unheard of. The fusion of rap-esque staccato delivery and melodic RnB singing was not a thing before Beyonce/DC brought it to the table. She singlehandedly changed the course of RnB music. Trust and believe, there would be no Drake without Beyonce. 2) Performance Quality. Beys career started during a time, where people were wither using playback and performed very choreo heavy or where you had singer singers. Artists like Whitney, Mariah, Celine, but also Britney, Jlo, Nsync, Backstreet Boys, etc all flourished. Bey was one of the very first to incorporate both: live vocals and heavy choreo. What happened was that pure lipsynching was actually looked down upon and unless you have the voice of a Whitney, you were expected to do choreo as well. I'm pretty sure Michael Jackson was doing choreo and live singing at least during the bad tour before he fell ill and started lipping. I'm also pretty sure Beyonce didn't start rap singing, she might have made it more mainstream but she didn't start that trend, alot of things we attribute to pop stars of the last 50 years weren't started with them, they just took those ideas and expanded on them even Michael Jackson isn't exactly original. Nothing is ever original tbh, you just take those ideas and infuse your own spin on them .
Kristie Kuwa Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 27 minutes ago, Welovetrouble said: I'm pretty sure Michael Jackson was doing choreo and live singing at least during the bad tour before he fell ill and started lipping. I'm also pretty sure Beyonce didn't start rap singing, she might have made it more mainstream but she didn't start that trend, alot of things we attribute to pop stars of the last 50 years weren't started with them, they just took those ideas and expanded on them even Michael Jackson isn't exactly original. Nothing is ever original tbh, you just take those ideas and infuse your own spin on them . Well yes, Michael changed the course of things in terms of live performances. No question about it. But things were completely different in the 90s/early 2000s. Bey brought it back and impacted the scene, setting the bar for what it means to be a female performer ever since. Dont downplay her impact on these things. Again, she was a trailblazer and pioneered it. She didn't invent it per se, but she made it en vogue. Your argumentation would also completely discredit someone like Gaga, because wigs have been worn before and Queens + Madonna brought theatrical performances before. Yet no one can argue that the Pop landscape changed after Gagas debut.
Welovetrouble Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said: Well yes, Michael changed the course of things in terms of live performances. No question about it. But things were completely different in the 90s/early 2000s. Bey brought it back and impacted the scene, setting the bar for what it means to be a female performer ever since. Dont downplay her impact on these things. Again, she was a trailblazer and pioneered it. She didn't invent it per se, but she made it en vogue. Your argumentation would also completely discredit someone like Gaga, because wigs have been worn before and Queens + Madonna brought theatrical performances before. Yet no one can argue that the Pop landscape changed after Gagas debut. Ok I think I get your point and I agree, not to veer off topic but i have read articles chronicling drake as who pioneered rap-singing which is clearly false. Anyways this doesn't pertain to you personally so I'm speaking generally but outside of her songs I don't know much about Taylor swift but she still has to have a unique selling point to have maintained a career as successful as hers for as long as she has Edited August 16, 2023 by Welovetrouble
LiamVillain Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 sometimes "bring something new to the table" is like "put ketchup on pizza"
ScubaDive Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 On 8/14/2023 at 11:29 AM, AxelFox said: The thing with Taylor swift is not that she does not innovate. Innovation in music has been sparse for the last couple of decades as there's few directions left to go into, especially in mainstream; there's very few who have actually innovated. It's that her music is never though provoking or challenges the way you listen to a record and makes you broaden your horizons musically. Sure, the music is good for the most part, sometimes even great, but her artistry as a whole is very one dimensional and inoffensive. Not to mention extremely juvenile, with some exceptions here and there. To put it simple, she's just very generic as an artist. Which is not an inherently bad thing as already stated in this thread, but that's what differentiates her from somebody that creates highly conceptualised albums & themes that are executed in unexpected and intriguing ways and overall more creative ideas of what a music record can be. The most she's ever went out of her comfort zone and tried to challenge herself artistically was Look What You Made Me Do and a couple other tracks on reputation. And she couldn't pull it off, because she's not that type of artist. I don't know how you can listen and watch that video and not cringe in pain, but then again I'm not 15 anymore so to her target audience she was probably 'serving'. I'll say it again, Taylor swift is great for what she is. But the discourse around her for the last couple of years has revolved around trying to make her seem something she most definitely isn't. Hm I disagree
Welovetrouble Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, MardinBeksloy said: Beyonce cant even write her own song Even if she doesn't she's still one of the greatest vocalist and performers of all time
suneclipse121 Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, MardinBeksloy said: Beyonce cant even write her own song She can and has done it before many times. She wrote some of Destiny’s Childs biggest hits for example. And countless people who have actually worked with her have spoken on her songwriting contributions. You know people that know her and not some randoms on the internet that don’t know ****. Even if songwriting is not biggest her priority she more than makes up for it with her raw talent on stage. A lot of artists can’t say the same.
Windy Day Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) not everybody has to bring something new to the table, but with how over hyped taylor is, you'd expect her to bring something artistically, which she isn't beyoncé is hyped as hell too but at least she's the best female performer right now and she takes some risks with her music while taylor is extremely safe and ony an average performer and it's absolutely okay!! you can be a fan and admit it Edited August 17, 2023 by Windy Day
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