poll Most successful 8th album: Anti x folklore x Music?

[airplane]

Just now, elincomprendid said:

And even then ANTI should be thankful it has no more Rihanna’s albums to compete with, imagine if Rihanna had an era as successful as midnights after ANTI, its consumption would collapse (like all her albums sans ANTI did)

 

This narrative needs to go when Unapologetic, GGGB and ANTI have similar daily streaming numbers.

[elincomprendid]

1 minute ago, airplane said:

I’d rather Rihanna have 10 weeks at #10 than having frontloaded bombs

Aren’t all Rihanna’s albums sans ANTI frontloaded bombs? 

[istan4badgalriri]

5 minutes ago, Raspberries said:

You got destroyed by multiple people in this thread and been the laughing stock since you buckled down with your certifications argument   give it up girl

is this the moment you guys go off topic bc y'all ran out of arguments ?

 

[Raspberries]

1 minute ago, istan4badgalriri said:

is this the moment you guys go off topic bc y'all ran out of arguments ?

 

How is a comment on your nonsensical arguments in this thread off topic  

[airplane]

3 minutes ago, Raspberries said:

Carolina had no music video, no playlisting, was never sent to radio, etc. Stomp Me Down had a massive radio deal, was #1 on TTH, had 10+ versions on YouTube, was discounted, had digital covers etc and still bombed catastrophically

 

3 minutes ago, Klein said:

Speak Now TV, a re-recording of a 13 year old album with mid popularity (for Taylor's standard of course), is having a bigger 3rd week than ANTI. 

 

The album was fronloaded and WILL NOT total up to ANTI in any way shape or form so you can enjoy the few weeks it has in the top 5.

 

Carolina would have bombed regardless of any sort of push. At least Rihanna got to perform on the Oscars stage. Taylor is 0/9 at an Oscar nomination for a soundtrack. Hiring a whole PR agency didn’t help either. 

[airplane]

3 minutes ago, elincomprendid said:

Aren’t all Rihanna’s albums sans ANTI frontloaded bombs? 

Nope. Rihanna never had a cult mass buying 69 versions of her albums to inflate her first week sales, nor was she desperate or greedy to manipulate her fans. None of her albums have been frontloaded bombs.

Edited July 28, 2023 by airplane

[Axelios]

Just now, airplane said:

The album was fronloaded and WILL NOT total up to ANTI in any way shape or form so you can enjoy the few weeks it has in the top 5.

It's a rerecording 

I guess the fact that Taylor has three albums (Fearless, 1989, Red) bigger than anything Rihanna ever made must be very hard to cope with.

[Klein]

1 minute ago, istan4badgalriri said:

is this the moment you guys go off topic bc y'all ran out of arguments ?

 

You have been rehashing a single argument since the beginning of this thread, which is certifications. A metric that is only used in selected countries and not automatically updated. 

 

Other members have responded to you with pure sales, streams, YEC, units moved in countries with official charts etc... Guess who's running out of arguments. 

[airplane]

7 minutes ago, Axelios said:

That didn't seem to help Rihanna in the past. Her albums NEVER got a boost from new releases and used to disappear fast from the charts unlike Taylor whose new albums spark interest in her whole discography. They are not the same.

 

 

 

You’ve been quoting me with this SAME COMMENT since 3 days now. I really couldn’t give a ****. It’s dumb and already got debunked. Try harder, bot

[The Music Industry]

1 minute ago, airplane said:

It was established in a comment earlier that when you breakdown folklore using its single sales+ pure album sales+ strihms, it does not translate to 11M units…

 

Established by who? ATRL user airplane? 

 

4 minutes ago, istan4badgalriri said:

 that's..... a whole lotta effort for nothing. You're comparing chart runs from 2016/17 in countries that didn't count streaming back in the day and were still pure sales charts, even though streaming was already eating up pure sales (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Ireland, New Zealand, Portugal, Spain etc. etc.) to... chart runs from 2020-present aka when every country's had streaming included in their album charts.

What? This is such a poor excuse 

 

The vast majority of these countries started including SPS between 2014 and 2017, so this is vapid for most countries you cited. There is absolutely no excuses you can use to justify the fact that Anti is OUT! or charting low on the year-end charts of so many countries on its second (2017) and third (2018) year compared to foklore. Anti just wasn't as big. Accept it already

 

 

15 minutes ago, istan4badgalriri said:

and the 7 years vs 3 years excuse doesn't work here considering y'all claimed Folklore was already bigger than Anti.

Well, yes, because it already is. It already moved more units, already charted longer on global charts, already sold way more pure sales and will soon even take over in Spotify streams. By all metrics, folklore is ahead despite not even having half the time to accumulate units. 

[Raspberries]

2 minutes ago, airplane said:

The album was fronloaded and WILL NOT total up to ANTI in any way shape or form so you can enjoy the few weeks it has in the top 5.

 

Carolina would have bombed regardless of any sort of push. At least Rihanna got to perform on the Oscars stage. Taylor is 0/9 at an Oscar nomination for a soundtrack. Hiring a whole PR agency didn’t help either. 

What album was Frontloaded? Speak Now? Who here has claimed a re-recorded album from 2010 would do more than ANTI?  

 

Yes, Rihanna got to perform her commercial failure that was blocked from #1 by Taylor herself  

[Axelios]

2 minutes ago, airplane said:

You’ve been quoting me with this SAME COMMENT since 3 days now. I really couldn’t give a ****. It’s dumb and already got debunked. Try harder, bot

There's nothing debunked about it. I'm repeating it because you still didn't seem to understand well that Rihanna was never as successful as Taylor in terms of albums even when she was releasing yearly.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Axelios

[Klein]

3 minutes ago, airplane said:

The album was fronloaded and WILL NOT total up to ANTI in any way shape or form so you can enjoy the few weeks it has in the top 5.

The mere fact you think a re-recording could/should have been in talks to reach ANTI's units tells you everything you need to know about the difference of standards. 

[istan4badgalriri]

4 minutes ago, airplane said:

 

 

Obliterated in the US and Worldwide, as verified by certifications. They can continue bragging about those chartmasters units which nobody uses apart from them.

😭😭 literally

 

they hate that she's still the top certified female artist even though she virtually hasn't lifted a finger since 2016 and barely released anything since that year... they don't get how she does it and it's driving them nuts!

[airplane]

1 minute ago, Klein said:

You have been rehashing a single argument since the beginning of this thread, which is certifications. A metric that is only used in selected countries and not automatically updated. 

 

He brought forward a comparison of certifications from countries where they automatically update. Also, who even uses chartmasters? Does anyone recognise that load of crap? It screams unreputable and fake. They’re only good for their pure sales

[The Music Industry]

5 minutes ago, airplane said:

Nope. Rihanna never had a cult mass buying 69 versions of her albums to inflate her first week sales

I mean, it's not for lack of trying.

 

This year alone with the flop soundtrack she released, she discounted the song and even released alternate digital covers. She simply does not have a dedicated fanbase that cares about her like that and that's not our fault. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by The Music Industry

[Axelios]

Just now, The Music Industry said:

I mean, it's not for lack of trying.

 

This year alone with the one song she released, she discounted her flop soundtrack and even released alternate digital covers. She simply does not have a dedicated fanbase to cares about her like that and that's not our fault. 

Didn't some of her digital sales also got filtered by Billboard too 

[Feanor]

13 minutes ago, Love Again said:

But ANTI was a much bigger moment and much more documented and was a triumph in Rihanna's career. Folklore, yknow she's a cute girl but put her next to Rihanna's gorgeous moment yknow gorgeous devours CUTE!

In what way was it a bigger moment than 'folklore'?

 

Chartswise other people have already brought up how 'folklore' has had a better chart performance than 'ANTI'.

 

In terms of what 'ANTI' did for Rihanna's catalog as a whole, its impact was also negligible, as several artists were bigger than Rihanna in 2016, whereas only BTS outdid Taylor during the year of 'folklore'.

 

 

 

In terms of critical acclaim, 'ANTI' was rather panned upon release. and 'folklore' hailed as a universally acclaimed masterpiece. You can look at their Meteoritic scores for that. And even when critics evaluated the best albums of the year later-on, 'ANTI' only made it to #19 on its year-end critic aggregates whereas 'folklore' made it all the way to #4.

 

In terms of Grammys, Rihanna famously went 0/8 in 2017, meanwhile 'folklore' won the industry's highest & most prestigious award in 2021.

 

And while Taylor didn't get to tour 'folklore' for obvious reasons, it's not far fetched to assume that a dedicated 'folklore Tour' would've done much better than the 'ANTI World Tour' with its unsold-out arenas in the US and stadiums in Europe looking like this:

 

 

 

'ANTI' admittedly has had nice longevity and no one can take that away from it. But in no way was it a bigger moment than 'folklore', not commercially, critically, awards-wise or touring-wise.

[Klein]

1 minute ago, airplane said:

He brought forward a comparison of certifications from countries where they automatically update. Also, who even uses chartmasters? Does anyone recognise that load of crap? It screams unreputable and fake. They’re only good for their pure sales

And from the pure sales (that you admit they are good at) + streams from Youtube and Spotify (which we don't need them to have access to), folklore is above ANTI (by a hair, something like 50k, but ANTI it's also 4.5 years older). 

[airplane]

4 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

Established by who? ATRL user airplane? 

 

Please breakdown folklore’s 11M chartmasters units and you win. In the meantime, 

 

[By the Water]

16 minutes ago, airplane said:

I’d rather Rihanna have 10 weeks at #10 than having frontloaded bombs

The only reason Rihanna's albums can't be considered frontloaded is because of her laughable first week sales. Let's take a look on how Taylor's "frontloaded bombs" stack against this longevity navys seem to think Rihanna's albums have.

 

Weeks on chart:

1989 - 449*

Anti - 377*

Taylor Swift - 279*

Fearless - 261

reputation - 252*

Lover - 204*

Speak Now - 189*

Red - 185

folklore - 156*

evermore - 136*

Good Girl Gone Bad - 113

Fearless (Taylor's Version) - 106*

Red (Taylor's Version) - 88*

Loud - 78

Unapologetic - 77

Talk That Talk - 57

Rated R - 45

A Girl Like Me - 45

Midnights - 39*

Music Of The Sun - 35

Speak Now (Taylor's Version) - 2*

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by By the Water

[airplane]

2 minutes ago, By the Water said:

The only reason Rihanna's albums can't be considered frontloaded is because of her laughable first week sales. Let's take a look on how Taylor's "frontloaded bombs" stack against this longevity navys seem to think Rihanna's albums have.

 

Weeks on chart:

1989 - 449*

Anti - 377*

Taylor Swift - 279*

Fearless - 261

reputation - 252*

Lover - 204*

Speak Now - 189*

Red - 185

folklore - 156*

evermore - 136*

Good Girl Gone Bad - 113

Fearless (Taylor's Version) - 106*

Red (Taylor's Version) - 88*

Loud - 78

Unapologetic - 77

Talk That Talk - 57

Rated R - 45

A Girl Like Me - 45

Midnights - 39

Music Of The Sun - 35

Speak Now (Taylor's Version) - 2*

 

Speak Now TV is still a frontloaded bomb.

[airplane]

4 minutes ago, Klein said:

And from the pure sales (that you admit they are good at) + streams from Youtube and Spotify (which we don't need them to have access to), folklore is above ANTI (by a hair, something like 50k, but ANTI it's also 4.5 years older). 

Did you use the formula and conversion factor from chartmasters?

[Axelios]

3 minutes ago, airplane said:

Please breakdown folklore’s 11M chartmasters units and you win. In the meantime, 

 

It doesn't really matter. The public number we have for the pure sales + Spotify + Youtube + digital singles are enough to conclude that Folklore > Anti.

[Klein]

1 minute ago, airplane said:

Please breakdown folklore’s 11M chartmasters units and you win. In the meantime, 

 

I already did: 

On 7/26/2023 at 6:10 PM, Klein said:

Pure sales: 

- ANTI : 1.458M

- folklore : 4.095M

 

Youtube views:

- ANTI : 2.712B = 1.8M units (1500 streams = 1 album unit ratio)

- folklore : 780M = 520k units

 

Spotify streams:

- ANTI : 6.036B = 4M units (1500 streams = 1 album unit ratio)

- folklore : 5.343B = 3.5M units

 

Single sales:

- ANTI : 8.75M = 875k units (10 sales = 1 album unit ratio)

- folklore : 580k = 58k units

 

Total:

ANTI - 8.133M

folklore - 8.173M

 

These partial numbers for ANTI and folklore are basically equal currently (which is what I said earlier in this thread). But considering their current trajectory + the fact that ANTI is 4.5 years older, it's pretty clear that folklore is the bigger album. 

 

For now Music is bigger than both. Time will tell if folklore and/or ANTI can surpass it. So far they are still about 3M behind so it's not going to happen anytime soon. 

It's based on the numbers we have access to. From these partial numbers, folklore is missing 2.6M from the 10.8M units chartmasters have. Considering Youtube + Spotify = 4M units, 2.6M from all other streaming services is a perfectly decent estimation.