celeb news Roger Waters dresses as Nazi officer in Berlin concert, police launches investigation

[Carla Rosón]

9 hours ago, liver said:

might be good to go back to listening taylor swift or kanye west if you're offended by this

nn not these 2

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, yonsé said:

that's why he's being investigated to begin with.

He's not being investigated. The OP is lying because the OP has a long post history of smearing well-known socialists who criticize Israel. People can file complaints and authorities can say they'll open investigations, but nothing can be done because the German high court literally already signed off on the show - given he played it dozens of times already - and agreed with the conclusion that it is undeniably a critique of nazism.

 

Even those who tried to have his concert cancelled could not argue it glorified nazism, but instead argued that Waters' "criticisms of Israel" as an apartheid state and his "support for BDS" should be grounds to ban him:

Quote

City officials tried to cancel the gig over Waters' anti-Israel positions, calling him "one of the most widely spread antisemites in the world"

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/roger-waters-concert-frankfurt-german-court-ruling-1234723506/

 

Why would those trying to ban the show think that support for the BDS movement is relevant to why Roger Waters should be banned or not? 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Communion

[Frozen99]

12 hours ago, WalkAway said:

Putin's supporter dressed up as a nazi? 

 

 

This is what their lyricist had to say:

 

https://twitter.com/PollySamson/status/1622513762602205184

 

.

 

the bs saying it’s some kind of fantasy when he banned jews from the show.. ppl are so dense or trolling  

[blaggot]

 atrlers getting behind this because it's """""art""""" but wanted kendrick's head for saying the word ****** in auntie diaries

 

give me a ****ing break

[Chemist]

Send him to jail!

[Johnny Jacobs]

6 hours ago, Phaunzie said:

I am so sorry, that you couldn't do a basic google search and do your research, but alas, here we are. You can choose to ignorant to the context all you want, but it is there. Literally there are  numerous pieces of information presented in this thread, educate yourself.

 

This is satire people

 

Im not the one u should say sorry to.. I feel sorry for you tho. 

 

May you find humanity someday

[Mellark]

The Baby Boomer Matty Healy aka Matty Healy-Petty  

[Mystic Boy]

11 hours ago, PennywiseTheClown said:

He's been doing this for decades now, it's an iconic part of The Wall. Also an iconic scene from the film in the 80s. He's playing a caricature/parody, y'all know that right?  The song he performs during this segment is In The Flesh. There's a line in the song that goes like "Are there any queers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall." And it goes on targeting other minorities. The whole point is to show how dangerous, bizarre and unhinged white supremacist fascists are

 

Not to mention he did this PRECISE act with the same outfit and gun EIGHT times already in Germany the past decade and suddenly now they're so shocked that action has to be being taken? Fake *ss controversy

Do you really expect the average ATRLer to be sensitive about Pink Floyd art and music?

Do you really think they even listened to that album and tried to get the concept?

[Embustera]

Most of y’all praise Charlie Hebdo . This is “satire” too.

[WalkAway]

2 hours ago, blaggot said:

 atrlers getting behind this because it's """""art""""" but wanted kendrick's head for saying the word ****** in auntie diaries

 

give me a ****ing break

The same people had a problem with this Nicki Minaj video (rightfully so), but NOW it's art. Ok... 

 

 

People saying it's art as if he doesn't have ****** up views. Might as well be recreating his fantasy.

[Domination]

Not much to add here that hasn’t already been said but I will say it’s weird that some of y’all are criticizing him for doing this in Germany as if the non-Jewish Germans were victims of the Nazis or something.

[Domination]

7 minutes ago, WalkAway said:

The same people had a problem with this Nicki Minaj video (rightfully so), but NOW it's art. Ok... 

 

 

People saying it's art as if he doesn't have ****** up views. Might as well be recreating his fantasy.

You are delusional if you thing this lyric video does anything but glorify Nazism/fascism. It’s still “art” but let’s not pretend the sentiment behind these two works are the same.

[WalkAway]

18 minutes ago, Domination said:

You are delusional if you thing this lyric video does anything but glorify Nazism/fascism. It’s still “art” but let’s not pretend the sentiment behind these two works are the same.

That's what i'm saying.  The people that are defending Waters, criticized Minaj, even tho they're both wrong. And "Art" is not an excuse. 

[Henry Torres]

What a psycho

[Domination]

6 minutes ago, WalkAway said:

That's what i'm saying.  The people that are defending Waters, criticized Minaj, even tho they're both wrong. And "Art" is not an excuse. 

Are you a Nazi? Otherwise, why are you offended? 

[WalkAway]

4 minutes ago, Domination said:

Are you a Nazi? Otherwise, why are you offended? 

What kind of logic is that? I'm offended because the guy is awful (Putin supporter, antisemite, etc...) and is cosplaying a nazi on top of that. And people are saying it's just "Art" when we know his ****** up views. I'm confused about what side are you on.

[Phaunzie]

5 hours ago, Johnny Jacobs said:

Im not the one u should say sorry to.. I feel sorry for you tho. 

 

May you find humanity someday

Humanity? Seriously, it not my fault that girlies wanna be offended by this without doing their due diligence and looking at the big picture instead opting to react off of what is spoon fed to them. Maybe be more critical of circumstances instead on jumping on the bandwagon, and then act all high and mightly because you are willingful ignorant of all context and information.

 

Do youself a favour and watch the movie, the Wall or listen to the album  for clear skin and no wrinkles. Shockingly I should have known better from a forum where users just read what the title says and base their opinion on surface value information.

 

 

[Phaunzie]

2 hours ago, WalkAway said:

That's what i'm saying.  The people that are defending Waters, criticized Minaj, even tho they're both wrong. And "Art" is not an excuse. 

I have never criticized that lyric video, stop generalizing toots, and girl Art has been literally made to inform and educate the people on topics that were taboo and off limits. All of the best Art tackles subject matter that the average person wouldn't dare tackle. To police Art just because it make you uncomfortable, is censorship.

 

[FOCK]

People offended at a performance that critiques fascism… yet calling the artist a fascist supporter.  
 

[Virgos Groove]

3 hours ago, WalkAway said:

Putin supporter, antisemite, etc...

Not peddling the State Department line on Ukraine is not "Putin support", and critiquing Israel for its crimes is not anti-semitic.

[mylicious]

20 hours ago, Polgg48 said:

unhinged as always but it's an art

yeah, this is not art but ******* stupid and attention seeking, one would think reaching this age people would get wiser

Edited May 27, 2023 by mylicious

[Dill Green]

12 hours ago, Communion said:

This is a bad faith question because it proposes that somehow Roger Waters - a musician - has some responsibility to *do* anything actionable with regards to fascism and war, and not politicians for whom he Is making art about.

 

It also ignores that the situation is not impersonal for Waters - he makes detailing the evils of Nazism a central piece of his art because his family were communists and his father literally was killed fighting nazis in WWII.

 

Again, if someone hates Waters because they personally feel fine erasing war crimes committed by NATO in places like Afghanistan and Libya, they should be able to say such. Double-speak is not an argument.

 

You first confidently posted this over and over:

 

And now you pivot, once unable to answer to how there's no honest way to legally *or* ethically describe Waters' art as glorification of fascism, arguing "but are his criticisms of fascism ACTUALLY ENDING FASCISM?". See? You admit you know and knew from the start it was never actually glorification. 

 

Artists speaking out about the evils of regimes like the US, Israel, Russia and others are doing more to push back on fascism than people, if that happens to include you, who reject such notions and hide behind bad faith accusations of antisemitism to defend apartheid states like Israel.

 

Am I meant to find Waters' call for Syria to be autonomous more offensive than the US bombing Syria? Am I meant to trust that people who supported turning Libya into a wasteland are experts when they parrot smears like calling Waters a "dictator apologist"? If these claims were true, then surely there has to be no actual objection for also similarly recognizing police states like the US, Israel and others as also fascist? What countries have actually bombed more nations and killed more people? 

 

Why is it antisemitic to refer to Israel as a fascist state? How is it pro-nazism to recognize those who were murdered by an ethno-state for their ethnicity as victims of fascism? If it's antisemitic to refer to victims of state-ordered killings by Israel as victims of fascism, then you must believe those people deserved to die, no?

 

Why did Shireen Abu Akleh deserve to be shot right through her forehead by an IDF soldier?

Why did Rachel Corrie deserve to have her limbs and body crushed into unrecognizable forms by a bulldozer when protesting the destruction of Palestinian homes for Israeli settlements? 

 

Surely your point of view is that these acts were indeed deserved if you are indeed co-signing that to recognize them as fascistic violence is "bigotry"?

 

Waters' concert also highlighted the deaths of:

• Adama Traoré, a black man murdered by French police in 2016
• Breonna Taylor, a black woman murdered by US police in 2020
• George Floyd, a black man murdered by US police in 2020
• Mawda Shawri, a Kurdish *2 year old* murdered by Belgian police in 2018
• Philando Castile, a black man murdered by US police in 2016
• Stanislav Tomáš, a Romani man murdered by Czech police in 2021

What exactly are people meant to take away from suggestions that victims of Western regimes and totalitarian police states either "deserved" their deaths or must be barred from recognizing themselves as victims of totalitarian violence? This isn't a conversation about antisemitism. This is natsec ghouls trying to smear a prominent anti-war voice who long has stood against illegal invasions of places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

 

If there are actual criticisms to have about the way Waters has poorly navigated Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine (which I'm sure there are many valid criticisms to have of him!), then say that. Be honest in your conversations. Cause right now this is ultra-nationalist Israelis and ultra-nationalist Europeans exploiting Waters' mistakes on Ukraine to throw the baby out with the bathwater and any self-respecting progressive should be able to spot when ultra-nationalists are mass-coordinating apologia for Western imperial powers.

You painted yourself into a corner, actually. If Roger's art, as you insinuated, has some discernible impact and import to society regarding fascism, white supremacy, racism, etc. then critiquing said art and measuring said impact/import is fair game. I've consistently argued that Roger donning a Nazi uniform and brandishing a weapon is unnecessary and does not add anything new or push society forward (and that it is a semi-glorification of white supremacist iconography) b/c his actions are not tethered to any contemporary utility - it's primarily causing mild controversy, while white supremacy, fascism, racism, etc. remains unsatisfactorily dealt with/scrutinized. 

 

As to your other points, I think you're actually getting in the weeds. Roger's art is not tapping into something beneath the surface - which is why the bulk of what it's engendering is mild controversy. His actions/art isn't actually doing anything tangible (regarding racism) or professing anything new or thought-provoking. You're extrapolating more from this scenario than what exists. 

 

And, as I previously stated, the conversations around this scenario primarily consist of people talking past one another - which is what you're doing w/ your post. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Dill Green

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Dill Green said:

Roger's art is not tapping into something beneath the surface

Neo-fascists who support bombing the Global South hating him says otherwise.

 

Now please stop avoiding these questions and answer them to give yourself any credbility:

 

Quote

Why is it antisemitic to refer to Israel as a fascist state? How is it pro-nazism to recognize those who were murdered by an ethno-state for their ethnicity as victims of fascism? If it's antisemitic to refer to victims of state-ordered killings by Israel as victims of fascism, then you must believe those people deserved to die, no?

 

Why did Shireen Abu Akleh deserve to be shot right through her forehead by an IDF soldier?

Why did Rachel Corrie deserve to have her limbs and body crushed into unrecognizable forms by a bulldozer when protesting the destruction of Palestinian homes for Israeli settlements? 

 

Surely your point of view is that these acts were indeed deserved if you are indeed co-signing that to recognize them as fascistic violence is "bigotry"?

It is not antisemitic to say Shireen Abu Akleh is a victim of fascism. You can take this moment to co-sign she was a victim of fascism or you can endorse her death as justified via continued pivoting.

[Dill Green]

12 hours ago, More Than A Melody said:

How is satire the best way to educate people when people are too stupid to get satire and nazi symbolism and white supremacist ideology is at an all time high?

 

You're severely overestimating the intelligence of the average consumer.

 

At the end of the day, Roger Waters doesn't care and won't stop anyway

This is an excellent point - there's a point at which the satirical causes more confusion than intended and the message ends up misconstrued or difficult to discern. And the intended effect loses it's potency. This might not be a popular perspective, but I think certain ascpects of society are best handled through more substantive and historical/hard-hitting means where less satire is involved (e.g., anti-black racism, fascism, white supremacy, etc.) b/c the impact on the lives of those suffering weighs in the balance. 

[Dill Green]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

Neo-fascists who support bombing the Global South hating him says otherwise.

 

Now please stop avoiding these questions and answer them to give yourself any credbility:

 

It is not antisemitic to say Shireen Abu Akleh is a victim of fascism. You can take this moment to co-sign she was a victim of fascism or you can endorse her death as justified via continued pivoting.

I'm sorry, but it seems you're fixated on arguing against strawmen. I get that you're passionate about your political perspective, but honest conversation and debate must still be had. As I've stated multiple times now, Roger's art is not thought-provoking or tethered to any contemporary utility, so the primary result is mild controversy. And people end up consistently listening to respond (and not to understand) and talking past one another - which you are still continuing to do. 

 

Roger's satirical Nazi re-enactment is not the best way to educate people - there's a point at which the satirical causes more confusion than intended and the message ends up misconstrued or difficult to discern. And the intended effect loses it's potency. I think that's what happens here. I think certain aspects of society are best handled through more substantive and historical/hard-hitting means where less satire is involved (e.g., anti-black racism, fascism, white supremacy, etc.) b/c the impact on the lives of those suffering weighs in the balance, especially during current times where white supremacist ideology is at an all time high.