news World Athletics bans transwomen from competing in sports entirely

[Harrier]

Even many very progressive trans people acknowledge there is room for nuance on this issue. At the top level of sport, tiny advantages make all the difference. Male puberty can easily qualify as one of those advantages. There is room for more research on the issue, and my reading indicates that there is some evidence that HRT does reduce trans women's abilities, possibly even down to that of cis women. But people in this thread are lying when they claim that evidence is conclusive and that it's a closed book issue. More research needs to be done, and clearer guidelines need to emerge.

 

In the meantime, it's better to err on the side of caution, and that includes restrictions on intersex individuals as well.  Women's sport exists because of the physical advantage typical males have over typical females. It is an artificial construction to allow biologically typical females to compete. With the exception sports based more in flexibility and that advantage lightness (like Gymnastics & Diving) males would otherwise outcompete females across the board.

 

I don't support bans on trans girls in sport at the lower level, especially in schools. What advantage might exist there isn't anywhere near as relevant at that level. But in elite sport? I can see it. It doesn't mean that trans women aren't women: it means they aren't cis women. it's okay to acknowledge there are differences and that this may be an area where those differences matter.

[Aethereal]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:10 PM, Tropez said:

They should just remove gendered categories. 

Should they remove age categories too?

You do realize that those categories exist for a reason.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Aristotle

[Communion]

8 hours ago, CandleGuy said:

So if I am understanding correctly

No, you're not understanding correctly at all, and continued intentional refusal to understand is a major red flag.

[RunUpDoneUp]

Sports; the ultimate discrimation event where biological advantages are literally the hallmark, is now taking a stand against it's foundation strangely enough when the right is initiating anti-lgbt Reich n457689.

 

I must say, it's nice to see people who barely passed high-school biology feel strongly about something they have nothing but transphobic interest in. Must be hard not having anything to do but supporting the destruction of another community's small and irrelevant progress.

 

I wonder how many of the participants will actually be able to wake up and realize what they've done? I'd be shocked if 2 even have the self respect to.

 

When your take on a "CoMpLeX" thing is "dck and balls bro" you're actually in the back of the class.

[Raptus]

A win for cis women

[Cyanide]

This makes sense. Some of you are really weird 

 

If this wouldn’t pose a problem, why would there be a gender divide in the first place? And why isn’t this a problem with FTM trans men? In fact, how come all of these arguments always center trans women, and NEVER trans men, and always kick biological women out of conversations that affect them the most?

[cockatoo]

1 hour ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

I must say, it's nice to see people who barely passed high-school biology feel strongly about something they have nothing but transphobic interest in.

I always think this when I see people talking about "basic biology" as if they have literally any level of understanding of that  It's the same with things like Global warming and covid. People speak about things so confidently despite having very little knowledge to back up those opinions and arguments.

 

Anyway when will people understand this literally isn't even about sports. Right wing people found the two areas where it's easy to argue for trans exclusion (sports and toilets) as the start of their push back against trans people. There's much more to come, and we can see from some of the don't say gay stuff and drag queen drama in the US some of it has already started.

[gugunikko]

I don’t think you need to passed high school biology to know that men have biological advantages against women. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by gugunikko

[Headlock]

On 3/24/2023 at 9:32 PM, HauntinglyHollow said:

It is very clear that 98% of you have no clue about genetics and biology.....a fair decision...also most of trans woman do not carry any genetic anomalies such as XXY, X0, XXX and whatever...these are extremely rare, and I mean EXTREMELY rare.....most of trans women are biologically XY and that gives them a major advantage... also genotype is not the same as fenotype, but these might be term too difficult to understand for the basic twitter PC biatch 

Not you attempting to talk down about genetics and spelling phenotype wrong 

[CaptainMusic]

22 hours ago, Harrier said:

Even many very progressive trans people acknowledge there is room for nuance on this issue. At the top level of sport, tiny advantages make all the difference. Male puberty can easily qualify as one of those advantages. There is room for more research on the issue, and my reading indicates that there is some evidence that HRT does reduce trans women's abilities, possibly even down to that of cis women. But people in this thread are lying when they claim that evidence is conclusive and that it's a closed book issue. More research needs to be done, and clearer guidelines need to emerge.

 

In the meantime, it's better to err on the side of caution, and that includes restrictions on intersex individuals as well.  Women's sport exists because of the physical advantage typical males have over typical females. It is an artificial construction to allow biologically typical females to compete. With the exception sports based more in flexibility and that advantage lightness (like Gymnastics & Diving) males would otherwise outcompete females across the board.

 

I don't support bans on trans girls in sport at the lower level, especially in schools. What advantage might exist there isn't anywhere near as relevant at that level. But in elite sport? I can see it. It doesn't mean that trans women aren't women: it means they aren't cis women. it's okay to acknowledge there are differences and that this may be an area where those differences matter.

MTE  

[CrimsonX]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:51 PM, Miss Show Business said:

If you are LGBTQ and do not understand why this is wrong and transphobic... Then it should be ZTP.

 

It's 2023. If you are LGBTQ and do not understand that sex and gender are complex and not black and white, and that many factors decide how a person develops... Well, then that's your own fault, because there are plenty within the community educating people.

 

Trans people fought, lived, and died, so that some day gay folks would have rights such as same sex marriages. We didn't ask these trans folks to do this — but they did anyways because an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. Period. We owe our trans brothers and sisters the dignity and respect of being educated about their struggle and being informed and educated about these matters. Period.

 

[SapphireSky]

Good

[SapphireSky]

17 hours ago, gugunikko said:

I don’t think you need to passed high school biology to know that men have biological advantages against women. 

This. I cannot believe some of the replies on here  

[Betty White]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:00 PM, Eternal220 said:

As they should. There are obviously biological advantages of being born a certain gender
 

people asking for others to get banned just cause you don’t agree with their opinion 

Nothing new for the people of the internet, as soon as someone disagrees with them they start having meltdowns and calling for that person to be silenced and banned. Thank God crap like that doesn't exist in real life cause our world would be even rougher than it already is lmao

 

And of course that one user is in this topic writing literal ESSAYS. Imagine how tired we are 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Betty White

[Miss Show Business]

3 hours ago, CrimsonX said:

What's so f***ing funny about this?

 

The blatant transphobia on this forum is absolutely disgusting...

[family.guy123]

Again, who are the women in this thread? 

[Brando]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:28 PM, Harrier said:

Even many very progressive trans people acknowledge there is room for nuance on this issue. At the top level of sport, tiny advantages make all the difference. Male puberty can easily qualify as one of those advantages. There is room for more research on the issue, and my reading indicates that there is some evidence that HRT does reduce trans women's abilities, possibly even down to that of cis women. But people in this thread are lying when they claim that evidence is conclusive and that it's a closed book issue. More research needs to be done, and clearer guidelines need to emerge.

 

In the meantime, it's better to err on the side of caution, and that includes restrictions on intersex individuals as well.  Women's sport exists because of the physical advantage typical males have over typical females. It is an artificial construction to allow biologically typical females to compete. With the exception sports based more in flexibility and that advantage lightness (like Gymnastics & Diving) males would otherwise outcompete females across the board.

 

I don't support bans on trans girls in sport at the lower level, especially in schools. What advantage might exist there isn't anywhere near as relevant at that level. But in elite sport? I can see it. It doesn't mean that trans women aren't women: it means they aren't cis women. it's okay to acknowledge there are differences and that this may be an area where those differences matter.

 

This

 

On 3/25/2023 at 5:46 PM, Cyanide said:

This makes sense. Some of you are really weird 

+ this.

 

This forum would be so much better without those crazed up "spokes people" no one asked for, trying to shut everyone up and calling them all sorts of names. They don't understand that they are making it worse for trans people by being so aggressively unreasonable and adopting [in their minds] this "angelic" persona of being unapologetically super inclusive without trying to think about things they are advocating for for like 2 seconds. 

[Hot Volcano]

20 hours ago, gugunikko said:

I don’t think you need to passed high school biology to know that men have biological advantages against women. 

MTE

 

This thread is a mess

[Specter]

I would like to shoutout @Communion , @Headlock, and @Miss Show Business for doing a great job combatting the blatant bigotry in this thread. Seriously, much appreciated

 

I used to get in the weeds like this a while back (especially sometime in the Covid threads and about other transphobic takes) but I have simply exhausted the mental energy, patience, and time due to personal circumstances to even be ABLE to deal with the incoherence of cis men apparently, in full sincerity, asking "well, why should everything be inclusive?" () on an LGBTQ+ friendly forum. Now I just pick and choose engagements to laugh at the dumb takes and move on, and ever since people ran in here on the very first page to jubilate I just nope'd out.

 

So once again, much appreciated!

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Phantom

[Headlock]

24 minutes ago, Brando said:

 

This

 

+ this.

 

This forum would be so much better without those crazed up "spokes people" no one asked for, trying to shut everyone up and calling them all sorts of names. They don't understand that they are making it worse for trans people by being so aggressively unreasonable and adopting [in their minds] this "angelic" persona of being unapologetically super inclusive without trying to think about things they are advocating for for like 2 seconds. 

Speaking of things no one asked for, care to comment on you barging into my PMs “due to not wanting any WPs” after multiple users, including me, asked you to name ONE extreme opinion we were advocating for and STILL failing to mention or explain ONE of your supposed “reasonable beliefs” you continuously claim to have to combat these “aggressively unreasonable” beliefs we are upholding, you know, with evidence and explanations and stuff? 

[Headlock]

5 minutes ago, Phantom said:

I would like to shoutout @Communion and @Headlock for doing a great job combatting the blatant bigotry in this thread. Seriously, much appreciated

 

I used to get in the weeds like this a while back (especially sometime in the Covid threads and about other transphobic takes) but I have simply exhausted the mental energy, patience, and time due to personal circumstances to even be ABLE to deal with the incoherence of cis men apparently, in full sincerity, asking "well, why should everything be inclusive?" () on an LGBTQ+ friendly forum. Now I just pick and choose engagements to laugh at the dumb takes and move on, and ever since people ran in here on the very first page to jubilate I just nope'd out.

 

So once again, much appreciated!

They wouldn’t even explain themselves in private messages despite THEM MESSAGING ME, it’s insane 

[Brando]

4 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Speaking of things no one asked for, care to comment on you barging into my PMs “due to not wanting any WPs” after multiple users, including me, asked you to name ONE extreme opinion we were advocating for and STILL failing to mention or explain ONE of your supposed “reasonable beliefs” you continuously claim to have to combat these “aggressively unreasonable” beliefs we are upholding, you know, with evidence and explanations and stuff? 

Didn't stop you from calling me a bigot and a transphobe without me literally saying a single word tho. If you still can't see the harm you are causing you never will  

 

Just admit you are happy to endlessly argue and call people names for no reason just to make yourself feel better, while ignoring all the reasonable posts in this thread, including from a trans girl on one of the first few pages which should have shut this argument down long ago 

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, Brando said:

Didn't stop you from calling me a bigot and a transphobe without me literally saying a single word tho. If you still can't see the harm you are causing you never will

Exactly??? 

You are upholding transphobic talking points and beliefs WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY YOU ARE DOING SO, and won’t explain your beliefs or positions, which continuously describe as reasonable 

You keep claiming, in here and in PMs, to hold reasonable beliefs and that these issues require reasoned debate, reason, reason, reason. But when prompted, YOU DON’T SAY ANYTHING. You claim to want debate, but offer NOTHING in response to what is given to you from those pushing back against your nonsense.

 

I will reiterate what I told you in my PMs when you messaged me (still a kii):

Truly, what are you hoping to gain here? I've made it perfectly clear a) what MY stances are, and b) that your pushback is both pathetic and obvious in their dogwhistles. If you TRULY thought your beliefs were reasonable, wouldn't you be able to voice them? To defend them? To debate them amongst others? To come to a "reasonable belief," wouldn't you have had to extensively do research into the topic? To form such seemingly concrete beliefs, shouldn't you have literally ANYTHING to draw from?

 

The more you avoid the questions, the more it seems you don't actually have tenants to these beliefs at all outside of "I don't like it." That's not "reason." That's discomfort in the face of the unknown at best, and pure prejudice at worst. 

[Brando]

10 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Exactly??? 

You are upholding transphobic talking points and beliefs WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY YOU ARE DOING SO, and won’t explain your beliefs or positions, which continuously describe as reasonable 

You keep claiming, in here and in PMs, to hold reasonable beliefs and that these issues require reasoned debate, reason, reason, reason. But when prompted, YOU DON’T SAY ANYTHING. You claim to want debate, but offer NOTHING in response to what is given to you from those pushing back against your nonsense.

 

I will reiterate what I told you in my PMs when you messaged me (still a kii):

Truly, what are you hoping to gain here? I've made it perfectly clear a) what MY stances are, and b) that your pushback is both pathetic and obvious in their dogwhistles. If you TRULY thought your beliefs were reasonable, wouldn't you be able to voice them? To defend them? To debate them amongst others? To come to a "reasonable belief," wouldn't you have had to extensively do research into the topic? To form such seemingly concrete beliefs, shouldn't you have literally ANYTHING to draw from?

 

The more you avoid the questions, the more it seems you don't actually have tenants to these beliefs at all outside of "I don't like it." That's not "reason." That's discomfort in the face of the unknown at best, and pure prejudice at worst. 

Because no matter what I say you will still call me a bigot or a transphobe because my views don't align with yours. You literally already did so without me saying anything, which literally proves my point. So if I'm gonna get called names anyways, why should I waste my breath trying to prove something to you

 

Also, not you continuously bringing up a PM as if trying to "expose" me for something or as if I did something illegal by sending you one. The amount of self-righteousness from you and the rest of "the gang" is beyond laughable. 

[Moloko Plus]

The difficult but CORRECT decision