charts discussion NewGen Pop Stars Biggest Eras (Billie, Dua, Olivia, Doja, Cardi, Harry & Lil Nas X)

[Alex]

Doja’s sales abysmal but we can only blame the lack of physicals 

[More Than A Melody]

4 hours ago, BowWow said:

Love this analysis  quite interesting even if I don’t fully agree that solo work is better as it inherently discriminates against hip-pop and electro genres which both build on collaborations. But these genres also tend to do better single sales and worst  album sales so tbh it’s impossible to make it completely fair. 
 

Ot: fascinated to see how Olivia does, she needs to hurry and drop already

While it is true, to some extent, that certain genres are more prone to collabs, I think it would be unfair to say that Cardi B is the best selling (by WW certifications) when the bulk of her sales comes from songs like Girls Like You, Finesse, Taki Taki, and No Limit, where she's a minimal part of the song and not the selling point at all. Even I Like It, Bad Bunny completely stole the show in that song. I'm more inclined to give her her flowers for WAP, but it's a case by case situation and in her case, most of her features/collabs are bulking her numbers with minimal input on her part.

 

Something similar happens with Dua Lipa, I'm inclined to give her Levitating, since it's her song, but the song did go absolutely viral thanks to the DaBaby remix. I'm not inclined to give her One Kiss, which very much screams Calvin Harris, or Cold Heart, which is Elton John's through and through (her vocals sold the song to a new generation, but Elton John is the song). She also has a lot of mid range hits in collabs that bulk her numbers quite a bit, especially with Europe sales.

 

Lil Nas X's bulk of sales come from Old Town Road and that song wouldn't have exploded without Billy Ray Cyrus jumping in, it's very much a shared effort. I'm once again, more inclined to give him his flowers for Industry Baby, but that wouldn't make that much of a difference alone.

 

Same thing goes for Doja, Kiss Me More is very much a shared effort with SZA, and a lot of her units come from songs with The Weeknd, Saweetie, Gucci Mane, songs that wouldn't be anywhere without being collabs.

 

It's not that all collabs are inherently less valuable for an artist, it's that certain collabs feel wrong to be counted as an artist's accomplishment without noting that they're in part due to another artist. Going by a very pop act like Justin Bieber, he owes most of his units post 2015 to collaborations. Stay being counted as solely his is a travesty when the song relies HEAVILY on Kid Laroi, but it'd be weird to put Stay in the same category as Peaches, which is very clearly a Bieber song, but also a collab.

 

We could potentially come to an agreement on which songs specifically should count to reflect an artist's selling power, or if it's a percentage of units in certain cases, or whatever, but I feel like it's such a personal opinion. Like you said, ultimately there isn't an actual fair way of counting this sort of thing, but maybe noting both is a place to start. Something like, this person sold this many units - this many come from solo songs and this many come from collabs.

[BuzzCharts]

22 hours ago, Rev8 said:

Hot Pink less than a mili away from Cardi's debut?!

 

Billie's EP bigger than Sour?!

 

 

just a bit disappointed from Harry's and Hot Pink's numbers

but Harry has constantly gotten +1M album sales and HH is just starting (5m by the end of the year?)

 

Whew

kind of sad he only has 1 good album

shocking all of his eras are +10m too

Heteros power

That EP was released 4 years before SOUR, do you not know how sales grow over time 

[Rev8]

1 hour ago, BuzzCharts said:

That EP was released 4 years before SOUR, do you not know how sales grow over time 

And streams Grew much more  

Also, the EP has songs that Barely charted anywhere   so much for Sour's megapeak when it cant surpass that

 

anyways, my comment was much more about Billie's EP being so huge rather than Sour being smaller

ofc u had to get offended and quote me even tho Sour is about to pass it anyway

[Cryptique]

5 hours ago, Rev8 said:

And streams Grew much more  

Also, the EP has songs that Barely charted anywhere   so much for Sour's megapeak when it cant surpass that

 

anyways, my comment was much more about Billie's EP being so huge rather than Sour being smaller

ofc u had to get offended and quote me even tho Sour is about to pass it anyway

SOUR will obviously surpass DSAM Ep

[Alex]

23 hours ago, More Than A Melody said:

While it is true, to some extent, that certain genres are more prone to collabs, I think it would be unfair to say that Cardi B is the best selling (by WW certifications) when the bulk of her sales comes from songs like Girls Like You, Finesse, Taki Taki, and No Limit, where she's a minimal part of the song and not the selling point at all. Even I Like It, Bad Bunny completely stole the show in that song. I'm more inclined to give her her flowers for WAP, but it's a case by case situation and in her case, most of her features/collabs are bulking her numbers with minimal input on her part.

 

Something similar happens with Dua Lipa, I'm inclined to give her Levitating, since it's her song, but the song did go absolutely viral thanks to the DaBaby remix. I'm not inclined to give her One Kiss, which very much screams Calvin Harris, or Cold Heart, which is Elton John's through and through (her vocals sold the song to a new generation, but Elton John is the song). She also has a lot of mid range hits in collabs that bulk her numbers quite a bit, especially with Europe sales.

 

Lil Nas X's bulk of sales come from Old Town Road and that song wouldn't have exploded without Billy Ray Cyrus jumping in, it's very much a shared effort. I'm once again, more inclined to give him his flowers for Industry Baby, but that wouldn't make that much of a difference alone.

 

Same thing goes for Doja, Kiss Me More is very much a shared effort with SZA, and a lot of her units come from songs with The Weeknd, Saweetie, Gucci Mane, songs that wouldn't be anywhere without being collabs.

 

It's not that all collabs are inherently less valuable for an artist, it's that certain collabs feel wrong to be counted as an artist's accomplishment without noting that they're in part due to another artist. Going by a very pop act like Justin Bieber, he owes most of his units post 2015 to collaborations. Stay being counted as solely his is a travesty when the song relies HEAVILY on Kid Laroi, but it'd be weird to put Stay in the same category as Peaches, which is very clearly a Bieber song, but also a collab.

 

We could potentially come to an agreement on which songs specifically should count to reflect an artist's selling power, or if it's a percentage of units in certain cases, or whatever, but I feel like it's such a personal opinion. Like you said, ultimately there isn't an actual fair way of counting this sort of thing, but maybe noting both is a place to start. Something like, this person sold this many units - this many come from solo songs and this many come from collabs.

Doja Cat's most popular songs are all solo bar Kiss Me More so i'm not really seeing your point. Say So, Streets, Need to Know and Woman all outsold and outcharted her collaborations with those other artists you mentioned, definitely not the same situation. Plus none of those collaborations would've been as big as they were without Doja 

[professor2000]

1 hour ago, dangerousalex said:

Doja Cat's most popular songs are all solo bar Kiss Me More so i'm not really seeing your point. Say So, Streets, Need to Know and Woman all outsold and outcharted her collaborations with those other artists you mentioned, definitely not the same situation. Plus none of those collaborations would've been as big as they were without Doja 

This.  
 

Doja is def not an artist that is solely reliant on collabs for success.  If anything, she’s the antithesis of that.  Many of her collabs are flops comparatively  

[More Than A Melody]

2 hours ago, dangerousalex said:

Doja Cat's most popular songs are all solo bar Kiss Me More so i'm not really seeing your point. Say So, Streets, Need to Know and Woman all outsold and outcharted her collaborations with those other artists you mentioned, definitely not the same situation. Plus none of those collaborations would've been as big as they were without Doja 

Perhaps you guys don't realize how much a song sells worldwide unless it's a genuinely big hit and that's the problem here. Once you break down the numbers, you can't NOT see the argument. Aside from Say So and Kiss Me More, Doja's songs rarely cross the 3M mark WW (only 4 songs do so, out of 22 released as a lead artist + 16 she was featured on). Of course some of those collabs wouldn't have been that big without Doja, but they also wouldn't gave been anywhere without the other artist, in most cases. So it's disingenuous to put Kiss Me More and Say So on the same level of "Doja can get hits" cause Kiss Me More relied heavily on being a song by TWO gorgeous and talented women. SZA pulled as much weight on that song as Doja did.

 

No one is arguing that Doja can't get hits or isn't a great artist. She's perhaps more local still and only crossed over with two hits, but she's still in the infancy of her career and can go to distance. I'm literally breaking down the numbers of solo vs total with collabs...

 

Total: 49,504,666 (originally I said 49,481,666, 23K off - I counted 18K less in solo songs and 5K less in collabs)

Kiss Me More (SZA) = 6,250,000

Juicy (Tyga) = 3,320,000 units

Best Friend (Saweetie) = 2,500,000 units

You Right (The Weeknd) = 2,325,000 units

Like That (Gucci Mane) = 2,275,000 units

Tia Tamera (Rico Nasty) = 1,020,000 units

P*ssy Talk (City Girls) = 1,000,000 units

D*ck (Starboi3) = 520,000 units

I Don't Do Drugs (Ariana Grande) = 500,000 units

I Like You (Post Malone) = 85,000 units

Del Mar (Ozuna) = 85,000 units

Solo: 29,624,666 (originally I said 29,606,666 which is 18K less in solo songs)

Say So = 8,103,333 units

Need To Know = 3,975,000 units

Woman = 3,658,333 units
Streets = 3,250,000 units

Boss B*tch = 2,000,000 units

Candy = 1,290,000

Get Into It = 1,285,000

Ain't Sh*t = 1,253,000 units

Rules = 1,240,000 units

Cyber Sex = 1,220,000 units

So High = 530,000 units 

Freak = 520,000 units

Mooo! = 500,000 units

Bottom B*tch = 500,000 units

Vegas = 300,000 units

[Arcadius]

I was gonna say I'm really only shocked at how low Doja and Nas' sales seem, but I don't think either of them ever releases physicals of their albums. Although I do think HP and PH both had vinyls.

[professor2000]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:03 PM, More Than A Melody said:

Perhaps you guys don't realize how much a song sells worldwide unless it's a genuinely big hit and that's the problem here. Once you break down the numbers, you can't NOT see the argument. Aside from Say So and Kiss Me More, Doja's songs rarely cross the 3M mark WW (only 4 songs do so, out of 22 released as a lead artist + 16 she was featured on). Of course some of those collabs wouldn't have been that big without Doja, but they also wouldn't gave been anywhere without the other artist, in most cases. So it's disingenuous to put Kiss Me More and Say So on the same level of "Doja can get hits" cause Kiss Me More relied heavily on being a song by TWO gorgeous and talented women. SZA pulled as much weight on that song as Doja did.

 

No one is arguing that Doja can't get hits or isn't a great artist. She's perhaps more local still and only crossed over with two hits, but she's still in the infancy of her career and can go to distance. I'm literally breaking down the numbers of solo vs total with collabs...

 

Total: 49,504,666 (originally I said 49,481,666, 23K off - I counted 18K less in solo songs and 5K less in collabs)

Kiss Me More (SZA) = 6,250,000

Juicy (Tyga) = 3,320,000 units

Best Friend (Saweetie) = 2,500,000 units

You Right (The Weeknd) = 2,325,000 units

Like That (Gucci Mane) = 2,275,000 units

Tia Tamera (Rico Nasty) = 1,020,000 units

P*ssy Talk (City Girls) = 1,000,000 units

D*ck (Starboi3) = 520,000 units

I Don't Do Drugs (Ariana Grande) = 500,000 units

I Like You (Post Malone) = 85,000 units

Del Mar (Ozuna) = 85,000 units

Solo: 29,624,666 (originally I said 29,606,666 which is 18K less in solo songs)

Say So = 8,103,333 units

Need To Know = 3,975,000 units

Woman = 3,658,333 units
Streets = 3,250,000 units

Boss B*tch = 2,000,000 units

Candy = 1,290,000

Get Into It = 1,285,000

Ain't Sh*t = 1,253,000 units

Rules = 1,240,000 units

Cyber Sex = 1,220,000 units

So High = 530,000 units 

Freak = 520,000 units

Mooo! = 500,000 units

Bottom B*tch = 500,000 units

Vegas = 300,000 units

Many of these collabos are with people who haven’t even reached Doja’s commercial success with their own individual music tho lol.  Starboi, City Girls, Gucci Mane, Saweetie, Rico Nasty….?  
 

Surely we can’t contribute the success of those songs to mostly the collaborators either, especially when none of them are that successful with their own solo material comparatively.   
 

Ariana Grande and Post Malone (flop era, but still) I’ll give to you.  And of course SZA.  

[Scorp]

Cardi absolutely SMASHING with a classic debut album. Some of y'all downplay her success but baby numbers speak for THEMSELVES. A RAP ALBUM DID THAT

[Scorp]

And for that delusional essay Cardi is a RAPPER she does features regularly as Drake, Travis Scott and Jay Z did/do. She's at her peak. And the fact that she has DIAMOND Certified lead singles kills your whole argument. She IS the best selling female artist right now and you can't just decide her stats don't count is it crack?