news Russian men escaping Putin's call to arms

[Cloudy]

54 minutes ago, Communion said:

There's no end to this argument because we're not actually in disagreement - I think the idea that rejecting those fleeing from forced enlistment in war on the basis that they as a people are not compatible with Europe is ethnonationalist and you're essentially going "well yeah it is cause at this point Russia has it coming!". 

Where do you even get that from? Who said they are not compatible? The ones fleeing are white and live pretty "european/western" way of living. You know that's not the reason why people do not "want them in". The reason people are against it it's because Russia has been hostile towards the embodiment of Europe as a whole for decades and it only seems to get worse. It's specially bothersome when Europe has been friendly and wanted to have a normal relation with them as technically being "part of the continente, sharing the same ethnicity, history" and many other things, yet Russia and Putin are keen on trying to antagonize us. So please stop trying to put words in people's mouths that they have not said nor implied 

 

Sure I in my western european country I am not directly affected, but I sure would be affected if the far right that has been proven to be financially backed by Putin's regime gets in power. Why do I have to put up with that because Putin wants to mess up with Europe. Others have to suffer the inflation and not afford food or gas. I'm sure you know not everything in Europe is privileged and shiny right? All of that it's because of Russia so excuse us most Europeans for having a hard time feeling sympathetic.

 

You could just say well I think it's better to be the better "person" (Europe), but the point is both you and me know that will not stop anything. He is keen of being a lunatic, who knows when he will give up, is this supposed to be going on forever?

[John Slayne]

Putin is crazy. The country is crumbling, this is the end of Russia as a world superpower. 

 

China and India are coming.

[Gottasadae]

23 minutes ago, John Slayne said:

Putin is crazy. The country is crumbling, this is the end of Russia as a world superpower. 

 

China and India are coming.

The Soviet Union was a superpower but not a modern Russia, with invasion of Ukraine they simply showed the whole world that their army in a very bad state at best. Nuclear weapon is the only thing that make them somehow relevant

[Headlock]

9 hours ago, Cloudy said:

As you say in all the other threads to other members, we're European and you're not so why are you telling europeans how to feel about Russians?

Oop

 

[Communion]

7 hours ago, Cloudy said:

Where do you even get that from? Who said they are not compatible?

You, by doubling-down that giving anti-war Russians asylum, despite no material harm to well-off European nations, is bad because... all Russians are bad and showing kindness to some Russians let's Putin win??

 

You have gone four pages now and not showed how allowing anti-Putin Russians to flee Russia leads to this:

7 hours ago, Cloudy said:

I sure would be affected if the far right that has been proven to be financially backed by Putin's regime gets in power.

Like what is this even trying to say? The far-right getting in power where? Russia? Your country? Don't you live in Spain? Your theory is that letting anti-war Russians seek refuge in Europe away from conscription let's Putin win because these same anti-Putin Russians will just... support Putin from Europe?  Bring far-right views... that they're running away from? I saw no parallels in your ethno-centrism to Syrian refugees but you now framing even anti-war Russians as conservative invaders who'd ruin your countries if offered a sympathetic hand is a bit...   

 

You do get why anyone thinking logically would view this conspiracy as the product of emotional irrationality and ethnic resentment, right? "Just say you want US to be the bigger people!!!" like you realize you're talking about NOT essentializing entire sects of people on the basis of ethnicity, right? 

 

No one is demanding that you exert some kind of emotional labour for Russians. No one is asking that you rank them high in your list of priorities. You are the one literally trying to virtue signal and lobby that no countries (even those outside of Europe!) should open their borders up to Russians fleeing Putin's brutality and rejecting his demand to fight in his war and then lashing out when your claims for WHY this is the right thing to do don't hold up to logical reasoning.

 

The audacity to make swipes at American leftists for being ideological over pragmatic when ironically I could never imagine being so ideological and rejecting of pragmatism that I'd tell people turning away from fascism that it's "too late" and they "need to lay in the bed they made" and "go to war and try not to die" because I want revenge and they have to learn a lesson the hard way.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by Communion

[Illuminati]

It's the constant gaslighting by certain people for me

[Cloudy]

10 hours ago, Communion said:

You, by doubling-down that giving anti-war Russians asylum, despite no material harm to well-off European nations, is bad because... all Russians are bad and showing kindness to some Russians let's Putin win??

 

You have gone four pages now and not showed how allowing anti-Putin Russians to flee Russia leads to this:

Like what is this even trying to say? The far-right getting in power where? Russia? Your country? Don't you live in Spain? Your theory is that letting anti-war Russians seek refuge in Europe away from conscription let's Putin win because these same anti-Putin Russians will just... support Putin from Europe?  Bring far-right views... that they're running away from? I saw no parallels in your ethno-centrism to Syrian refugees but you now framing even anti-war Russians as conservative invaders who'd ruin your countries if offered a sympathetic hand is a bit...   

 

You do get why anyone thinking logically would view this conspiracy as the product of emotional irrationality and ethnic resentment, right? "Just say you want US to be the bigger people!!!" like you realize you're talking about NOT essentializing entire sects of people on the basis of ethnicity, right? 

 

No one is demanding that you exert some kind of emotional labour for Russians. No one is asking that you rank them high in your list of priorities. You are the one literally trying to virtue signal and lobby that no countries (even those outside of Europe!) should open their borders up to Russians fleeing Putin's brutality and rejecting his demand to fight in his war and then lashing out when your claims for WHY this is the right thing to do don't hold up to logical reasoning.

 

The audacity to make swipes at American leftists for being ideological over pragmatic when ironically I could never imagine being so ideological and rejecting of pragmatism that I'd tell people turning away from fascism that it's "too late" and they "need to lay in the bed they made" and "go to war and try not to die" because I want revenge and they have to learn a lesson the hard way.  

Boy I'm not even going to keep entertaining your nonsense. All I'm going to say is that if Europe doesn't want to take them in they won't, take them to New Jersey with you or something I don't know what else you want people to tell you 

[Kamil24]

I didn't realize so many people here are psychic and know for sure that the Russians escaping now previously supported the war.

[Bosque]

59 minutes ago, Kamil24 said:

I didn't realize so many people here are psychic and know for sure that the Russians escaping now previously supported the war.

The people escaping now are clearly middle class, taking flights or cars to countries where they are able to obtain visas. They had 0 problems staying in Russia while their lives went on more or less the same and it was super convenient to ignore. Not to mention some of them were caught with Pro-Putin/pro-war signs on their cars and turned back at the Georgian border for it. 

 

Meanwhile the actual lower-class (often ethnic minorities) who are suffering most from this war and getting decimated by Putin's military tactis are busy actually protesting in Russia, setting fire to military recruitment centers and blocking highways at great risk to their own lives, because they won't have a chance to hop on the next flight taking them to Serbia or Dubai. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dephira

[Kamil24]

3 hours ago, Dephira said:

The people escaping now are clearly middle class, taking flights or cars to countries where they are able to obtain visas. They had 0 problems staying in Russia while their lives went on more or less the same and it was super convenient to ignore. Not to mention some of them were caught with Pro-Putin/pro-war signs on their cars and turned back at the Georgian border for it. 

 

Meanwhile the actual lower-class (often ethnic minorities) who are suffering most from this war and getting decimated by Putin's military tactis are busy actually protesting in Russia, setting fire to military recruitment centers and blocking highways at great risk to their own lives, because they won't have a chance to hop on the next flight taking them to Serbia or Dubai. 

Well I wouldn't expect most people to get up and leave their homes and everything they know just because some crazy man decided to attack Ukraine. It's not as easy to just leave your life behind as people here make it seem. Yes there are some that supported it, but not all. Perhaps ignoring it was the safest thing for them to do at the time.

[A.R.L]

Conscription is modern slavery. No one has the right to impose on anyone a certain way of life. If you can't handle a war, simply don't start it. gross

[ZIVERT]

“What are you doing here?”

”We are running away from the war, this isn’t our war”

”Crimea is the territory of which country?”

”Uhhh, Crimea belongs to the Crimeans”

”And Donetsk and Luhansk belong to whom?”

”Those regions belong to the people of those regions”

 

Literally can’t even answer a simple question about Ukrainian sovereignty - it’s literally simple to say “Ukraine.” But they can’t answer it, because they don’t believe it. But still want to be given asylum for a war their country started. It’s actually insane

 

And these are the “good” ones  

[kawk]

I remember when all of this was starting, no one wanted to believe that these boys/young men were being forced to fight but here we are.

 

"MY BOY IS ONLY 17 YEARS OLD, NEXT YEAR HE WILL TAKEN TO THE ARMY, THE WAR IS NOT GONNA END TOMORROW. (I DID NOT) RAISE HIM FOR PUTIN. WE'RE NOT GOING BACK UNTIL THERE'S A NEW GOVERNMENT AND NEW PRESIDENT" 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by kawk

[Protocol]

If this war continues and gets worse, perhaps some western countries will have to start sending troops as well. The possibility of conscription even in America is not completely unlikely. It happened during the Vietnam War. So think about that before you judge. There are plenty of people who would have zero sympathy and pity for Americans. How many of you left the country and openly protested against Obama while he was drone bombing villages?