news Two gay men in Ireland killed in a hate crime

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Dephira said:

moving countries when you are young

Again, I'm simply asking you how this fact works with the insinuation you're trying to peddle here:

6 hours ago, Dephira said:

Sadly there's a reason why crimes like these are on the rise in Western Europe. 

What reason would there be for "why crimes like these are on the rise" in regards to someone moving to Ireland in 2006 as a small toddler? Surely then the issue is one of the Irish state failing to de-isolate and help integrate those within the margins of its societies into the values it considers to make-up Irish society?

 

Where the Irish government is failing to help integrate and endear people to progressive social views that an Irish person (because anyone living in Ireland for 16 years is as Irish as they come) could commit such a bigoted crime. I think instead you're trying to push the argument found online that tries to say the flaw was in allowing such refugees into Ireland to begin with, but again, the man has spent the vast majority of his life as an Irish resident, being Irish. I don't think they actually know his motive yet, and I don't think it would change the depravity of what occurred because it should be reiterated that these were brutal and unconscionable murders done as acts of violence, but to somehow essentialize the issue as a foreign-born or foreign-traced one ignores the reality that is was explicitly homegrown. Yousefl Palani would have grown up in Irish culture, not Iranian. So where can Ireland improve on battling homophobia to prevent this?

[RussianRoulette]

Yeah. No. This is fucked up.

I feel so sorry for them.

[Monster Megamind]

Even if you have spent your life in ireland, your home culture matters for 1st generation immigrants. If your parents are homophobic, there is a high chance you'll learn from that. What more integration does a baby immigrant need, when you'll probably be going to school with the rest of the Irish children... Never discount upbringing in these cases... Also radicalization because of religiosity is another factor.

[JoshBTW]

6 hours ago, Communion said:

Again, I'm simply asking you how this fact works with the insinuation you're trying to peddle here:

What reason would there be for "why crimes like these are on the rise" in regards to someone moving to Ireland in 2006 as a small toddler? Surely then the issue is one of the Irish state failing to de-isolate and help integrate those within the margins of its societies into the values it considers to make-up Irish society?

 

Where the Irish government is failing to help integrate and endear people to progressive social views that an Irish person (because anyone living in Ireland for 16 years is as Irish as they come) could commit such a bigoted crime. I think instead you're trying to push the argument found online that tries to say the flaw was in allowing such refugees into Ireland to begin with, but again, the man has spent the vast majority of his life as an Irish resident, being Irish. I don't think they actually know his motive yet, and I don't think it would change the depravity of what occurred because it should be reiterated that these were brutal and unconscionable murders done as acts of violence, but to somehow essentialize the issue as a foreign-born or foreign-traced one ignores the reality that is was explicitly homegrown. Yousefl Palani would have grown up in Irish culture, not Iranian. So where can Ireland improve on battling homophobia to prevent this?

Your assumption isn’t fair or unbiased either. We don’t know anything about his background. Chances of him being integrated into Irish society are currently just as high as him being part of an isolated community where he could have had higher chances of being exposed to extremist views. Your assumptions are just as flawed as the user you responded to. 

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, JoshBTW said:

Chances of him being integrated into Irish society are currently just as high as him being part of an isolated community where he could have had higher chances of being exposed to extremist views

Both possibilities reiterating the factual reality that this is an Irish man, who grew up under the umbrella of Irish culture, and who has spent the vast majority of his life growing up in Ireland, and that making this at-all about his refugee status (again as a toddler) is disingenuous and that calls to make this some big discussion about which kinds of immigrants should be let into Ireland are typical far-right fear-mongering that seeks to exploit to one group's tragedy to do harm onto another.

[JoshBTW]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

Both possibilities reiterating the factual reality that this is an Irish man, who grew up under the umbrella of Irish culture, and who has spent the vast majority of his life growing up in Ireland, and that making this at-all about his refugee status (again as a toddler) is disingenuous and that calls to make this some big discussion about which kinds of immigrants should be let into Ireland are typical far-right fear-mongering that seeks to exploit to one group's tragedy to do harm onto another.

Those are more of your own assumptions as to what that user meant. Could have very well been that or they could’ve just been referring to the very real problem of extremist groups taking advantage of closed immigrant communities all over Europe to spread their ideology and recruit people. Do you deny this problem exists?

Edited April 17, 2022 by JoshBTW

[Bosque]

11 hours ago, Communion said:

Again, I'm simply asking you how this fact works with the insinuation you're trying to peddle here:

What reason would there be for "why crimes like these are on the rise" in regards to someone moving to Ireland in 2006 as a small toddler? Surely then the issue is one of the Irish state failing to de-isolate and help integrate those within the margins of its societies into the values it considers to make-up Irish society?

 

At the end of the day, immigrants (even second-generation ones) from North Africa and the Middle East are responsible for an outsized amount of criminality in Europe. That's a fact. Could be because of culture, religion, education levels, income,  isolation from the local population, doesn't really matter. You pinning the blame for this on the Irish government is extremely misleading given the amount of immigrants who make a conscious decision to isolate themselves from the society around them and who are (as others pointed out) often targeted by extremist groups for recruitment. What exactly do you propose the Irish government should've done to prevent this? 

[Shelter]

20 hours ago, JoshBTW said:

I mean, this is disgusting as it is but his body being described as severely mutilated is just sickening to me. To do something like that to another person you literally have to leave all of your humanity behind. I’m not for the death sentence but a person like this really has no place in humanity. 

They were beheaded. That’s how sick he is 

[Pristine]

is this related to islam 'religion of peace' sis?

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Dephira said:

You pinning the blame for this on the Irish government is extremely misleading

Except your argument that this was due to recent influxes of refugees "in recent years" was pinning it in the Irish government's immigration policies? Again, this conversation can't be productive unless you just what you want to say outright and own it. 

 

What material affect and change in policy do you hope to see by suggesting criminality in Europe is largely an act by refugees and migrants only.

[fountain]

Horrific. The fact that some people will still try to argue that homophobia doesn’t exist anymore in 2022 is ridiculous. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by fountain

[Protocol]

Quote

Gardaí believe the suspect tracked his victims down through Grindr before he murdered them and mutilated their bodies.

So I'm going to assume this was a case of the murderer tricking his victims into thinking he was coming over for a hook-up, and then killing them once they let him inside. Because Grindr doesn't tell you where someone is on a map, it doesn't sound like he broke into their homes.

 

This is NOT meant to be victim-blaming in any way shape or form, the fault is 100% with the sick psychopath who deserves to spend life behind bars, but my fellow gays, there are psychos out there who will do this. Meet people in public first, not in your house. If you get a bad vibe, make an excuse and leave. Tell someone where you are going and send them a photo of the guy if you can. Better yet, try not to meet with anyone who doesn't provide clear and multiple face pictures as well as social media links, and share these with a friend before meeting the dude. Unfortunately there are psychopaths out there like this murderer, and we need to protect ourselves. Women don't tend to go straight to a dude's apartment they matched with on Tinder because they are aware of the potential danger, it's time gay men starting doing the same.

 

[dlwlrma]

 "An Garda Síochána, Ireland’s police force, believe both men were killed by the same person. Yousef Palani, a 22-year-old man from Sligo, was charged with murder and appeared in court on Thursday (14 April)."

 

oh 

[RunUpDoneUp]

Imagine being 22 and murder was something you went out your house to do. Embarrassing and pathetic.