discussion WSJ argues student debt cancelation is bad as it will ruin military enlistment

[Communion]

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Communion

[favorite crime]

 i feel so sorry for americans sometimes

[TiaTamera]

I mean we all already know that in a capitalist country, the best business model is making people the currency. 

[vinster13]

Students shouldn’t be taking out loans unless the really need it. As a college student myself, I’m about to receive an associate degree from community college (paid fully by federal aid because classes at cc are so cheap) 

 

I’m considering going to a four year out of state for my ba but considering I don’t want loans, I might just end up at my local four year. 

 

many of my peers took out loans purely because they wanted to “hAvE a CoLLeGe eXpEriEnCe” yet they are flunking classes and partying every weekend, while I’m busting my ass and living at home. Me thinks if you take out a loan, you know full well you have to pay it back.

Edited April 14, 2022 by vinster13
Typos

[Dula Peep]

24 minutes ago, vinster13 said:

Students should take taking out loans unless the really need it. As a college student myself, I’m about to receive an associate degree from community college (paid fully by federal aid because classes at cc are so cheap) 

 

I’m considering going to a four year out of state for my ba but considering I don’t want loans, I might just end up at my local four year. 

 

many of my peers took out loans purely because they wanted to “hAvE a CoLLeGe eXpEriEnCe” yet they are flunking classes and partying every weekend, while I’m busting my ass and living at home. Me thinks if you take out a loan, you know full well you have to pay it back.

You hit the nail on the head. Congrats on being intelligent while everyone else is stupid. 

 

9 minutes ago, Juanny said:

Agreed. You don’t need college to be successful, and it’s not for everyone, you should go if you have a reason and your career goals make sense with college.

 

With that said, USA college fees are absurd. Just ridiculous.

exactly, the loans aren’t the problem (although yes they are pretty predatory) …the problem are the insane costs of going to college and how colleges now are running themselves like corporations 
 

 

[Cruel Summer]

Cancel all of it.

 

Students who went to college because it’s what they thought was necessary to have a good life - who are NOT given the appropriate skills by our education system to understand the gravity of the financial decisions they are making - are not to blame. Shifting the blame to students for being “stupid” is allowing colleges and banks to get away with blatantly predatory behavior and ignores the full context behind why student debt is so high and widespread.

 

The military does not need more people (or more money). Their predatory recruiting tactics, like the predatory loans that do in fact share partial blame with colleges for the student debt crisis, should be shamed.

 

Cancel all of it, and then reduce higher education costs to manageable levels permanently. Improve public education to ensure that young adults are actually prepared to make informed and complete decisions about higher education financially, too.

 

It is well within our means as a country, and in our best interest, to do so. The barrier is people who think that improving society for future generations is unfair or too costly.

[EnigmaticAndroid]

35 minutes ago, Dula Peep said:

The loans aren’t the problem (although yes they are pretty predatory) …the problem are the insane costs of going to college and how colleges now are running themselves like corporations 

 

 

I live in Florida and fully believe implementing something similar to Bright Futures nationwide is the way to go. I get why people are pushing for free college, but BF feels like a good mid-point that most people would be able to get behind and it would benefit those who earn it. College tuition needs to be adjusted though, that is undeniable.

Edited April 14, 2022 by EnigmaticAndroid

[Into The Void]

1 hour ago, vinster13 said:

Students should take taking out loans unless the really need it. As a college student myself, I’m about to receive an associate degree from community college (paid fully by federal aid because classes at cc are so cheap) 

 

I’m considering going to a four year out of state for my ba but considering I don’t want loans, I might just end up at my local four year. 

 

many of my peers took out loans purely because they wanted to “hAvE a CoLLeGe eXpEriEnCe” yet they are flunking classes and partying every weekend, while I’m busting my ass and living at home. Me thinks if you take out a loan, you know full well you have to pay it back.

this.  I did my first two years at community college cause why take the basics and pay 5x the amount when u get the same courses in CC.  I dont understand the need to go str8 to uni when u save so much mroe transferring from CC to a Uni lol.

 

 

Spoiler

I had no choice tho my Uni didnt accept me anyway, i had to go to CC first then after certain credits i could transfer

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Insanity

[Communion]

1 hour ago, vinster13 said:

Students should take taking out loans unless the really need it. As a college student myself, I’m about to receive an associate degree from community college (paid fully by federal aid because classes at cc are so cheap) 

 

I’m considering going to a four year out of state for my ba but considering I don’t want loans, I might just end up at my local four year. 

 

many of my peers took out loans purely because they wanted to “hAvE a CoLLeGe eXpEriEnCe” yet they are flunking classes and partying every weekend, while I’m busting my ass and living at home. Me thinks if you take out a loan, you know full well you have to pay it back.

 

44 minutes ago, Dula Peep said:

You hit the nail on the head. Congrats on being intelligent while everyone else is stupid. 

 

exactly, the loans aren’t the problem (although yes they are pretty predatory) …the problem are the insane costs of going to college and how colleges now are running themselves like corporations 
 

 

This doesn't make sense. You're saying tuition costs are too high and that the loans are predatory. 

 

....who do you think issued the loans?

 

It's not about if people need a college education to succeed or not. It's about if the DoE acted within its fiduciary responsibility to not lend out loans It knew could not be successfully paid back on the agreed upon terms, much in the same way that banks in the 2000s were issuing mortgages to low-income borrowers that they knew could not be paid back and would statistically end in foreclosure. 

 

Why should the US government not be held responsible for knowingly lending poor people loans that they could realistically not pay back? If it understood banks were wrong to engage in subprime lending that sought out low-income borrowers, the federal government should be answering for its targeting of low-income Americans within the last 20-30 years. Student debt was maybe a middle class, privileged affair 30 years ago, but now debt holders are largely low-income (and disproportionately people of color, particularly black women).

Edited April 14, 2022 by Communion

[Into The Void]

Save your money and go to local community colleges!

[frenchyisback]

When Biden cancels student debts, the only debt I'd have left will be my mortgage but I'm already in the green on it thanks to housing price skyrocketing in DC. So I will be debt free for all intent and purpose.

 

WSJ journal can seethe. There are a lot of way to hire people for the military.

 

Allow dreamers & undocumented immigrants to earn their green card by serving. Foreign legions have always existed.  

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by frenchyisback

[frenchyisback]

18 minutes ago, Insanity said:

Save your money and go to local community colleges!

Skip college all together and get a IT cert.

You spend $500 total, you save time; then you earned $100,000+ a year 2 months later 

Edited April 14, 2022 by frenchyisback

[Into The Void]

29 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

Skip college all together and get a IT cert.

You spend $500 total, you save time; then you earned $100,000+ a year 2 months later 

if your into IT not everyone is. 

[Zombie]

I'm against it too. Pay tf up. They knew what they were doing when they took that debt to enroll. These people don’t wanna take responsibility for their actions.

[Pheromosa]

I’m glad i stopped at 50k, now i just put it on auto bill and pretend to not see it 

[Bosque]

2 hours ago, vinster13 said:

Students should take taking out loans unless the really need it. As a college student myself, I’m about to receive an associate degree from community college (paid fully by federal aid because classes at cc are so cheap) 

 

I’m considering going to a four year out of state for my ba but considering I don’t want loans, I might just end up at my local four year. 

 

many of my peers took out loans purely because they wanted to “hAvE a CoLLeGe eXpEriEnCe” yet they are flunking classes and partying every weekend, while I’m busting my ass and living at home. Me thinks if you take out a loan, you know full well you have to pay it back.

The leftists on this sub will not like this rational opinion. 

 

I'm all for free college, but cancelling student debt while doing NOTHING about exploding tuition costs is a dumb move.

[Communion]

54 minutes ago, Dephira said:

The leftists on this sub will not like this rational opinion. 

 

I'm all for free college, but cancelling student debt while doing NOTHING about exploding tuition costs is a dumb move.

This doesn't make sense, again, and it's insulting to claim some level of intelligence that you think others don't have while posting claims that lack common sense and any kind of introspection. Your argument is literally not rational. 

 

1) The argument you're presenting is one of bad faith since it is *also* used against free college, saying free college would be unfair to those who already paid or took out debts that they're still paying. 

 

2) No one is saying not to tackle tuition. The fact is though that the president has unique authority over debts held by the DoE and can end those loans literally today. He should use that authority instead of letting millions of people suffer under such debt. In fact, Biden figuring such debt would put pressure on Congress to solve the tuition crisis because now there's a standard of free education people are expecting to get since millions of people got it in the single swipe of a pen. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Communion

[Bosque]

27 minutes ago, Communion said:

This doesn't make sense, again, and it's insulting to claim some level of intelligence that you think others don't have while posting claims that lack common sense and any kind of introspection. Your argument is literally not rational. 

 

1) The argument you're presenting is one of bad faith since it is *also* used against free college, saying free college would be unfair to those who already paid or took out debts that they're still paying. 

 

2) No one is saying not to tackle tuition. The fact is though that the president has unique authority over debts held by the DoE and can end those loans literally today. He should use that authority instead of letting millions of people suffer under such debt. In fact, Biden figuring such debt would put pressure on Congress to solve the tuition crisis because now there's a standard of free education people are expecting to get since millions of people got it in the single swipe of a pen. 

1) It doesn't really matter what *other* people are saying. I'd be happy with a proposal such as making community college and/or state college free for everyone. That doesn't really contradict my argument

 

2) Public discourse seems very much on the side of loan forgiveness, while ignoring the ballooning costs of college tuition. The fact of the matter is that if the government gets involved in something, it almost always leads to increasing prices. I haven't heard anything about serious policy proposals to curtail prices at public colleges, make them free, or anything of that sort. In fact, the problem is that recipients of federal student loans (which are the ones Biden could forgive) can attend any type of college (including private ones), and the private ones are the worst offenders in that regard. Imo it's a foregone conclusion that if private college students suddenly have way more money available to them, uncurtailed tution fees will skyrocket even more. 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Dephira

[frenchyisback]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

 

This doesn't make sense. You're saying tuition costs are too high and that the loans are predatory. 

 

....who do you think issued the loans?

 

It's not about if people need a college education to succeed or not. It's about if the DoE acted within its fiduciary responsibility to not lend out loans It knew could not be successfully paid back on the agreed upon terms, much in the same way that banks in the 2000s were issuing mortgages to low-income borrowers that they knew could not be paid back and would statistically end in foreclosure. 

 

Why should the US government not be held responsible for knowingly lending poor people loans that they could realistically not pay back? If it understood banks were wrong to engage in subprime lending that sought out low-income borrowers, the federal government should be answering for its targeting of low-income Americans within the last 20-30 years. Student debt was maybe a middle class, privileged affair 30 years ago, but now debt holders are largely low-income (and disproportionately people of color, particularly black women).

 

When the gvt doesn’t lend to the poor, you complain that they discriminate against the poor and only allow the rich to get richer.

 

When the gvt lend to the poor. You complain they were irresponsible as they knew they would never be able to repay.

 

Always something to manufacture anger about.

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

 

When the gvt doesn’t lend to the poor, you complain that they discriminate against the poor and only allow the rich to get richer.

 

When the gvt lend to the poor. You complain they were irresponsible as they knew they would never be able to repay.

 

Always something to manufacture anger about.

I think the only one trying to manufacture anger is you framing the wildly popular policy of debt relief as outrageous while being silent about the hundreds of millions of dollars in PPP loans that private companies currently making billions in profit will not be expected to pay back. 

 

Equality means access to forgiveness to all. Should rich business owners be the only ones with loan forgiveness? 

If the government has enough resources to give blank checks to businesses who pocketed pandemic loans and now don't wanna pay back, they have enough resources to free millions of low-income Americans from what experts now call a modern-day form of serfdom. 

 

I wonder just how many people who oppose forgiveness got themselves a PPP loan. 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Communion

[Happylittlepunk]

At this point idk what to think. I do believe college/university prices in the us are dumb. However, people make terrible decisions and college isn’t for everyone and shouldn’t demand certain standards just to experience college. 
 

The best to do currently is go to community college first and then transfer to a 4 year, or get a certificate in something that doesn’t require a college degree like tech, or marketing. 

[byzantium]

Honestly the US military’s hiring practices are rather despicable.

 

Also I find it odd that so many leftists seem to favor an idea of debt forgiveness over free tuition.  To me it just seems like a bunch of millennials caring only about their own interest rather than that of future generations.  I guess they learn from their boomer parents.  

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Also I find it odd that so many leftists seem to favor an idea of debt forgiveness over free tuition. 

 

47 minutes ago, Dephira said:

I haven't heard anything about serious policy proposals to curtail prices at public colleges, make them free

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2730/all-info#:~:text=Introduced in House (04%2F21%2F2021)&text=This bill establishes measures to,assist students from disadvantaged backgrounds.

 

The idea of free college was one of the pillars of the sole leftist presidential campaigns of the last 8 years? A lot of Democrats don't support free college sure, but those are conservative Democrats. 

 

Leftists are...the only people in US politics (at the public servant level) to support free college, which is sad since most Americans support it. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Communion

[Bosque]

42 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

The idea of free college was one of the pillars of the sole leftist presidential campaigns of the last 8 years? A lot of Democrats don't support free college sure, but those are conservative Democrats. 

 

Leftists are...the only people in US politics (at the public servant level) to support free college, which is sad since most Americans support it. 

Yes, compared to the right-wing, leftists in the USA are all for free college. But at the end of the day, Sanders isn't president and Biden's free community college plan has been axed. As far as I'm aware there isn't a serious policy or law underway that would enable free college, while student loan forgiveness is still actively talked about. 

[Bloo]

4 hours ago, Dula Peep said:

exactly, the loans aren’t the problem (although yes they are pretty predatory) …the problem are the insane costs of going to college and how colleges now are running themselves like corporations 

This is a product of public colleges and universities being less supported by state taxes. I believe it was the Reagan administration that started a push to cut college education funding. Since then, public colleges and universities have had to increase tuition to essentially break even as they've become more reliant on tuition than they were in the past. This can be shown in the plot below, where you see bigger state budget cuts directly correlate with tuition increases of public colleges and universities:

 

(Read more here: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/a-truly-devastating-graph-on-state-higher-education-spending/274199/)

 

So, America has a weird culture among public schools where they have this need to "compete" for students. So they have this constant race of building fancy gyms and dorms and all that to attract students because they need to meet thresholds of enrollment in order to breakeven. There's a great CNN documentary that dives into this issue in greater detail than I can do in a single ATRL post. It's called Ivory Tower and it's a pretty damning documentary that does a fantastic job.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Tower_(2014_film)

 

I'm planning on going into higher education as a faculty member at some point in the near future, so this is something I read about a lot.