tv show Drag Race vs The World

[Both Sides Now]

7 minutes ago, CroNich said:

wow ATRL lately has really been proving how misogynistic cis gay men are STILL. While I agree her comment about the breastplates was unnecessary, the amount of hate she is receiving especially here over a mere two comments is really telling of how gay men see queer women. Y'all disgust me tbh...

Please. Look, I agree that queer women (and non-queer women) are victim to misogynistic gay men. But I think you have to be fairly dense to think “fishy” is misogynistic. Again, most queens expressing fishiness are revelling in their womenhood. Is it the wrong word? Probably yes. Is it up to a cis woman to instruct them not to use those terms (like Victoria did)? Absolutely not.  
 

Again, it boils down to if you believe having female parts makes you entitled to instruct everyone to use words associated with female parts. For Victoria (who is a British cis woman), she feels entitled to instructed every non-cis woman of what language they are allowed to use….
 

If cis gays decided there was a term that trans men or drag kings used was offensive, would we have this uproar? No. Absolutely not. And for good reason. Cis people can’t decide what terms GNC or trans people aren’t “for them”. So really, it’s TERFy to not allow queens to use words about female anatomy. 

Again - Victoria has made it clear that she has the last word on any sort of topic - body image, gender identity, gender expression, ball room culture etc. It’s not her place to tell queens how they can self identity just because she is a cis woman. It’s not misogyny to ask “is this fair?” Just because she burst into tears. Look outside your own point of view. 
 

would you allow a man to tell drag kings not to insult male body parts? Because Victoria literally wore a six pack body suit AND ridiculously hairy legs. What’s the difference between that and a breast plate?

[CroNich]

23 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

Please. Look, I agree that queer women (and non-queer women) are victim to misogynistic gay men. But I think you have to be fairly dense to think “fishy” is misogynistic. Again, most queens expressing fishiness are revelling in their womenhood. Is it the wrong word? Probably yes. Is it up to a cis woman to instruct them not to use those terms (like Victoria did)? Absolutely not.  
 

Again, it boils down to if you believe having female parts makes you entitled to instruct everyone to use words associated with female parts. For Victoria (who is a British cis woman), she feels entitled to instructed every non-cis woman of what language they are allowed to use….
 

If cis gays decided there was a term that trans men or drag kings used was offensive, would we have this uproar? No. Absolutely not. And for good reason. Cis people can’t decide what terms GNC or trans people aren’t “for them”. So really, it’s TERFy to not allow queens to use words about female anatomy. 

Again - Victoria has made it clear that she has the last word on any sort of topic - body image, gender identity, gender expression, ball room culture etc. It’s not her place to tell queens how they can self identity just because she is a cis woman. It’s not misogyny to ask “is this fair?” Just because she burst into tears. Look outside your own point of view. 
 

would you allow a man to tell drag kings not to insult male body parts? Because Victoria literally wore a six pack body suit AND ridiculously hairy legs. What’s the difference between that and a breast plate?

I hear you, like I said I agree the breastplate comment was unnecessary, however I completely understand and empathise with cis-women or people with vaginas who get offended by the term fishy. I’ve spoken to lots of women about this, and a lot of them don’t seem to care, but there are a good proportion that find it offensive, and I just think if a group of people (who throughout history have been completely marginalised by men) find it offensive why would you want to continue to offend someone?

 

I understand it’s a complex topic, because the term originated or was reclaimed from predominantly POC trans women, and is a term of empowerment for them, however I do agree that using such a term to refer to femininity is silly and unnecessary. You have to remember as well the deep-rooted systematic sexism queer women have faced at the hands of cis-gay men over the last half a century, and I think that’s what is driving some of the anger around the term being used, as queer women have generally been ignored and paid dust by gay men yet one of the only references we use relating to the female anatomy is gross and demeaning imo.
 

But look, Its not my place to say whether or not the term is appropriate or not, i don’t identify as trans and I don’t have a ******, but personally I’ve removed it from my vocabulary as I don’t want to offend any of the powerful queer female figures in my life. My issue is how much hate has spewed through this thread just from her identifying some actions/words that make her (and many other women) uncomfortable/offended. It’s not the first time a queen has spoken up (on or off the show) about elements of drag/queer culture that is offensive yet I have never seen this amount of hate and disgusting outwardly misogyny from

someone complaining about something like this before. To me, it really just proves the point that she is trying to make. That queer women have always and still are ignored, ostracised and marginalised in our community, and particularly in the drag community.
 

Drag is meant to be for everyone, and everyone has a right to showcase their talent on a drag stage. I agree some of Victoria’s comments are unnecessary/delivered poorly, but y’all are really doing the absolute most over a literal word that probably doesn’t apply to 95% of you and that a group of people found offensive.  
 

edit: also I’m sorry but I will never understand the argument of ‘well she wore hairy legs on stage, how dare she comment on queens using a breastplate, that’s ******* ridiculous. Clearly her comment was directed to queens who use breast plates as comedic relief, which obviously can be perceived as mocking the female anatomy. Was it necessary? Probably not, but trying to draw those comparisons is such a pathetic reach and I won’t be entertaining it any more.

Edited December 8, 2022 by CroNich

[♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚]

these nonsensical essays over that boring loser

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by ♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚

[genetic fail]

1 hour ago, Both Sides Now said:

For Victoria (who is a British cis woman)

The inclusion of British made me scream

[CroNich]

20 minutes ago, ♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚ said:

these nonsensical essays over that boring loser

 

If you did any amount of critical thinking or even read my post you would realise it’s way deeper than just VS

[Claymore]

3 hours ago, CroNich said:

I hear you, like I said I agree the breastplate comment was unnecessary, however I completely understand and empathise with cis-women or people with vaginas who get offended by the term fishy. I’ve spoken to lots of women about this, and a lot of them don’t seem to care, but there are a good proportion that find it offensive, and I just think if a group of people (who throughout history have been completely marginalised by men) find it offensive why would you want to continue to offend someone?

 

I understand it’s a complex topic, because the term originated or was reclaimed from predominantly POC trans women, and is a term of empowerment for them, however I do agree that using such a term to refer to femininity is silly and unnecessary. You have to remember as well the deep-rooted systematic sexism queer women have faced at the hands of cis-gay men over the last half a century, and I think that’s what is driving some of the anger around the term being used, as queer women have generally been ignored and paid dust by gay men yet one of the only references we use relating to the female anatomy is gross and demeaning imo.
 

But look, Its not my place to say whether or not the term is appropriate or not, i don’t identify as trans and I don’t have a ******, but personally I’ve removed it from my vocabulary as I don’t want to offend any of the powerful queer female figures in my life. My issue is how much hate has spewed through this thread just from her identifying some actions/words that make her (and many other women) uncomfortable/offended. It’s not the first time a queen has spoken up (on or off the show) about elements of drag/queer culture that is offensive yet I have never seen this amount of hate and disgusting outwardly misogyny from

someone complaining about something like this before. To me, it really just proves the point that she is trying to make. That queer women have always and still are ignored, ostracised and marginalised in our community, and particularly in the drag community.
 

Drag is meant to be for everyone, and everyone has a right to showcase their talent on a drag stage. I agree some of Victoria’s comments are unnecessary/delivered poorly, but y’all are really doing the absolute most over a literal word that probably doesn’t apply to 95% of you and that a group of people found offensive.  
 

edit: also I’m sorry but I will never understand the argument of ‘well she wore hairy legs on stage, how dare she comment on queens using a breastplate, that’s ******* ridiculous. Clearly her comment was directed to queens who use breast plates as comedic relief, which obviously can be perceived as mocking the female anatomy. Was it necessary? Probably not, but trying to draw those comparisons is such a pathetic reach and I won’t be entertaining it any more.

I ain't reading all that.  I am happy for u tho or sorry that happened.

[♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚]

4 hours ago, CroNich said:

If you did any amount of critical thinking or even read my post you would realise it’s way deeper than just VS

The only one who needs to come to a realization is you. Stop enabling these attention seekers who are clearly trying to ruin drag just to get some ******* airtime. 

[CroNich]

2 hours ago, Claymore said:

I ain't reading all that.  I am happy for u tho or sorry that happened.

Not surprised an atrl loser can’t be bothered to read important discourse of the treatment of queer women in queer spaces. You all keep proving my point time and time again. Enjoy hating women everyone x

[CroNich]

4 minutes ago, ♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚ said:

The only one who needs to come to a realization is you. Stop enabling these attention seekers who are clearly trying to ruin drag just to get some ******* airtime. 

I’m perfectly happy with where my head is at regarding this thank you. I like to support and build up marginalised members of our community but enjoy being a hateful spiteful loser x

Edited December 8, 2022 by CroNich

[Madonno]

2 hours ago, CroNich said:

I’m perfectly happy with where my head is at regarding this thank you. I like to support and build up marginalised members of our community but enjoy being a hateful spiteful loser x

Let that user alone, he likes to be hateful and angry all the time.

Your comment was truly interesting, thanks.

[Claymore]

7 hours ago, CroNich said:

Not surprised an atrl loser can’t be bothered to read important discourse of the treatment of queer women in queer spaces. You all keep proving my point time and time again. Enjoy hating women everyone x

Not your random ass coming up with the IMPORTANT DISCOURSE. Get your head out of your butthole and stop making molehills out of mountains. This trend of babying and victimizing every group is tired and counterproductive. There are important discussions to be had about all kind of injustices, but Victoria being a TERF **** ain't one.

[CroNich]

3 hours ago, Claymore said:

Not your random ass coming up with the IMPORTANT DISCOURSE. Get your head out of your butthole and stop making molehills out of mountains. This trend of babying and victimizing every group is tired and counterproductive. There are important discussions to be had about all kind of injustices, but Victoria being a TERF **** ain't one.

I was merely trying to counter balance the pages and pages of disgusting hate Victoria has received in this thread, im not trying to say if she is right or wrong but the amount of vile **** I’ve had to read about her and about cis women in the drag scene has made me extremely angry and sick.

[Claymore]

7 minutes ago, CroNich said:

I was merely trying to counter balance the pages and pages of disgusting hate Victoria has received in this thread, im not trying to say if she is right or wrong but the amount of vile **** I’ve had to read about her and about cis women in the drag scene has made me extremely angry and sick.

I think people are against Victoria due to her holier than thou demeanor and her own problematic views on feminine expression. Dragula's Sigourney Beaver made a lot of points about being seen as less then in the drag world and she is pretty much universally loved because her way of approaching it was by opening up a discussion, not preaching and certainly not dictating the expression of others. And it didn't help that Victoria said that queens who use ''fishy'' are doing it to be misogynistic when that word was used as a compliment between trans women and femme identifying individuals.

 

Once more, just because someone is shedding tears it does not mean that they are exempt from criticism and people should bow down to their requests.

[Relampago.]

I have to give it up to Victoria Pescadone. She really got the girls talking and now we can address how many topics involving trans people often result in them getting tossed aside for the interests of cis gendered people. 
 

That being said, it will be a kii to see these girls who supposedly love and support girls like Victoria never mention her again once the season is done. This “support” feels so performative, not only because it’s shortsighted and limited in scope, but because so many will not extend support beyond an ATRL argument. 
 

Some girls are doing a lot in here but at the very least they’re being honest with themselves. I’m not convinced most people here ever had a problem with the word fish before it could be used to win points in the Drag Race sphere. And the people who have gone through gender studies courses, and otherwise had real life experiences with the word’s usage have had a far more nuanced and informative opinion that trounces the blind Toria followers’. 

[Morissette]

19 hours ago, CroNich said:

wow ATRL lately has really been proving how misogynistic cis gay men are STILL. While I agree her comment about the breastplates was unnecessary, the amount of hate she is receiving especially here over a mere two comments is really telling of how gay men see queer women. Y'all disgust me tbh...

[madonnas]

18 hours ago, CroNich said:

I hear you, like I said I agree the breastplate comment was unnecessary, however I completely understand and empathise with cis-women or people with vaginas who get offended by the term fishy. I’ve spoken to lots of women about this, and a lot of them don’t seem to care, but there are a good proportion that find it offensive, and I just think if a group of people (who throughout history have been completely marginalised by men) find it offensive why would you want to continue to offend someone?

 

I understand it’s a complex topic, because the term originated or was reclaimed from predominantly POC trans women, and is a term of empowerment for them, however I do agree that using such a term to refer to femininity is silly and unnecessary. You have to remember as well the deep-rooted systematic sexism queer women have faced at the hands of cis-gay men over the last half a century, and I think that’s what is driving some of the anger around the term being used, as queer women have generally been ignored and paid dust by gay men yet one of the only references we use relating to the female anatomy is gross and demeaning imo.
 

But look, Its not my place to say whether or not the term is appropriate or not, i don’t identify as trans and I don’t have a ******, but personally I’ve removed it from my vocabulary as I don’t want to offend any of the powerful queer female figures in my life. My issue is how much hate has spewed through this thread just from her identifying some actions/words that make her (and many other women) uncomfortable/offended. It’s not the first time a queen has spoken up (on or off the show) about elements of drag/queer culture that is offensive yet I have never seen this amount of hate and disgusting outwardly misogyny from

someone complaining about something like this before. To me, it really just proves the point that she is trying to make. That queer women have always and still are ignored, ostracised and marginalised in our community, and particularly in the drag community.
 

Drag is meant to be for everyone, and everyone has a right to showcase their talent on a drag stage. I agree some of Victoria’s comments are unnecessary/delivered poorly, but y’all are really doing the absolute most over a literal word that probably doesn’t apply to 95% of you and that a group of people found offensive.  
 

edit: also I’m sorry but I will never understand the argument of ‘well she wore hairy legs on stage, how dare she comment on queens using a breastplate, that’s ******* ridiculous. Clearly her comment was directed to queens who use breast plates as comedic relief, which obviously can be perceived as mocking the female anatomy. Was it necessary? Probably not, but trying to draw those comparisons is such a pathetic reach and I won’t be entertaining it any more.

These are my thoughts exactly. 

 

I haven't seen receipts that the term originates from ballroom scenes, but other than that, I get that in some contexts it might not be seen as offensive and we should look at where it came from, but at the same time, so so so many lgbt AFAB individuals have come out and said the word makes them uncomfortable.  Victoria, both AFAB competitors from s3 of Dragula, and a lot of my lgbt women friends have said they straight up are not a fan of the term.  

 

The breastplate comment I don't really 100% agree with. I think Victoria can be preachy at times but people are exaggerating how "preachy" and "rude" she is just to villainize her.  She was very respectful to Stephanie (and Stephanie was respectful back) from what we saw.  

[CroNich]

47 minutes ago, madonnas said:

These are my thoughts exactly. 

 

I haven't seen receipts that the term originates from ballroom scenes, but other than that, I get that in some contexts it might not be seen as offensive and we should look at where it came from, but at the same time, so so so many lgbt AFAB individuals have come out and said the word makes them uncomfortable.  Victoria, both AFAB competitors from s3 of Dragula, and a lot of my lgbt women friends have said they straight up are not a fan of the term.  

 

The breastplate comment I don't really 100% agree with. I think Victoria can be preachy at times but people are exaggerating how "preachy" and "rude" she is just to villainize her.  She was very respectful to Stephanie (and Stephanie was respectful back) from what we saw.  

Thank you, honestly I was ready to permaban myself from this site I’m so over the disgusting vile attitudes and opinions on here. I haven’t even engaged in the conversation until the other day, it’s just gotten to the point where the hatred and comments are so unjustified. Agreed she came across preachy, but I can understand the emotions that would be coming from. 
 

In terms of the whole ‘fishy’ debate, I completely see both sides. But like I said before it’s not my place as a cis gay man to have an opinion on the matter (which I know applies to most of the users in here).

[Alyssa Edwards]

[willmcclure9]

16 hours ago, Alyssa Edwards said:

A (fishy) woman who does drag (not to be confused with certain hags)

[feelslikeadream]

I still don't understand why Gia associates herself with tilapia, one of the cheapest fish 

[manwhore]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:52 PM, Claymore said:

I hope Vic reaches the finale and makes an EMPOWERING speech on the debilitating trauma of being subjected to word plays such Snatch Game and ''Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent''. This is a crucial step in acknowledging the dangers of men, transwomen and NB people appropriating WOMANHOOD by wearing breast plates, pads, makeup and wigs. I will surely weep and count the days when drag will RIGTHFULLY be done only by cisgender women. I am on the right side of history, are you??

First they police language by banning the word fish. Then insult you for wearing a breastplate. Next the whole concept of cis men in drag will be a mockery and calls for advertiser boycotts at Viacom ensue. This is the extreme wokeness y’all wanted. Enjoy drag race hosted by Michelle visage for women by women.  No mockery. No defaming women because “women!”  
 

 

[mokitsu]

 

 

 

Jorgeous dragging Rita is sending me she was serving fish with that mug and outfit too

[Relampago.]

Manifesting a Hagtoria exit tonight, but after last week’s payola I am keeping hopes low.

[publikcitizen]

If they follow the UkvTW format for episode 4, then tonight's episode will have the "if you're not in the top, then you're in the bottom" rule. So 4 queens will be in the bottom tonight... Could we get a Jimbo/Pangina elimination moment tonight? 

[♚ PRiNCE HiGH ♚]

3 hours ago, manwhore said:

First they police language by banning the word fish. Then insult you for wearing a breastplate. Next the whole concept of cis men in drag will be a mockery and calls for advertiser boycotts at Viacom ensue. This is the extreme wokeness y’all wanted. Enjoy drag race hosted by Michelle visage for women by women.  No mockery. No defaming women because “women!”  
 

 

SIP on this faggots