news Trump's anti-trans EO: ban passport changes + trans women in women's shelters/prisons

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Illuminati said:

Diva, you love to make Lithuania sound like some far away imaginary (and apparently rich? as opposed to the US?) land. Europe isn't that far away, Americans are everywhere.

You're being childish if you want to actually convince anyone that you think we're talking about land distance here. The argument isn't geographical. 

 

The point being made is how you claim to care about marginalized people yet have no issue demonizing and punching down on non-voters who are largely poor black and brown Americans. 

 

Harris did pretty well - comparatively - with affluent educated white Americans. 

 

Her loss comes largely from working class minorities staying home. 

 

So why do you as a white European feel entitled to claim you know better of the lived experience of poor black Americans or poor Hispanic Americans? Because that's what you're doing when you posture and shift the burden of blame from the powerful politician who ran a bad campaign and put the onus on her loss on her base of voters who stayed home. 

 

What does some white gay man from Europe know about being a working class Latina working as a health aide in a swing state like Nevada to say somehow Democrats losing is HER fault for not finding time to vote between a double shift?

 

I've never once told anyone how to vote, let alone scolded someone with specific identities different than mine for voting against Trump. We know this is true given how the criticism has to morph into some weird "well your criticisms of Harris inadvertently make people feel bad about their vote for her instead of making people feel like they have to vote so this is still your fault!!!". 

 

2 hours ago, Illuminati said:

This is literally your position in this thread

Kamala Harris with a $1b superpac is not a "powerless person". 

Edited 18 hours ago by Communion

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Gaia said:

The exact same way you blame everything on "neolibs"

Again, this doesn't work and continually exposes how the liberal worldview is informed not by logic or a material understanding of the world but emotions and vibes. 

 

"I know you are, but what am I!"

 

Progressives blame neoliberals for Trump winning because they literally ran a centrist candidate against him and she lost.

 

Progressive blame neoliberals for Trump winning because Harris had a $1b SuperPac funded by tech billionaires that shaped her right ring campaign and she still lost.

 

Progressives blame neoliberals for Trump winning because it was Biden's austerity politics post-COVID that progressives rallied to stop that made Biden deeply unpopular.

 

"Well so do you" doesn't work when you're accusing someone of having a view backed by facts while yours is backed by vibes. Like yes, you blame leftists and leftists blame liberals like you. The election result has proven leftists right and liberals wrong. 

[Distantconstellation]

2 hours ago, Anthinos said:

I will never understand people like Blaire White or Dave Rubin. We should be grateful that we have these rights in the West and defend them instead they sacrifice their rights for what?

 

It is sad what is happening in the USA and it affects us all. Here in Germany we always say that everything that happens in the USA will eventually come to us and it's true. This shift to the right affects the entire West. 

You don't understand a grift? Really? 

[Illuminati]

56 minutes ago, Communion said:

You're being childish if you want to actually convince anyone that you think we're talking about land distance here. The argument isn't geographical. 

 

The point being made is how you claim to care about marginalized people yet have no issue demonizing and punching down on non-voters who are largely poor black and brown Americans. 

 

Harris did pretty well - comparatively - with affluent educated white Americans. 

 

Her loss comes largely from working class minorities staying home. 

 

So why do you as a white European feel entitled to claim you know better of the lived experience of poor black Americans or poor Hispanic Americans? Because that's what you're doing when you posture and shift the burden of blame from the powerful politician who ran a bad campaign and put the onus on her loss on her base of voters who stayed home. 

 

What does some white gay man from Europe know about being a working class Latina working as a health aide in a swing state like Nevada to say somehow Democrats losing is HER fault for not finding time to vote between a double shift?

 

I've never once told anyone how to vote, let alone scolded someone with specific identities different than mine for voting against Trump. We know this is true given how the criticism has to morph into some weird "well your criticisms of Harris inadvertently make people feel bad about their vote for her instead of making people feel like they have to vote so this is still your fault!!!". 

 

Kamala Harris with a $1b superpac is not a "powerless person". 

I shift the burden of blame on you actually, and always have in this type of arguments. As I repeat, it's the type of online users like you who were harrassing trans people who voted for Kamala, suppressing Trump criticism by parroting "blue maga" at any given opportunity and lying that Trump is just bluffing and everything will be the same, actually.

 

NOT actual progressives, NOT average Americans who just want to make ends meet, NOT the token Latina you hide behind who was too busy making actual change instead of sitting on her high horse and dividing the collective left into castes.

 

Every argument with you about your abrasive useless approach and how you're always trying to put yourself on a pedestal outside of the reach of the average voter ends with you shielding yourself from that criticism by using minorities as sock puppets.

 

Or you pretend that what's being discussed is the opposite of what was said. My argument has always been that the democrats are rich and will be the least affected by this presidency, you're not voting on the basis of making their lives better, that's why this "well at least genocide joe will suffer!!" mentality coming from certain Atrlers was flawed from the start.

 

I don't identify as a liberal, nor am I an American, as you keep pointing out my location at every given opportunity, but many of whom you attack with your "execute every liberal" routine also happen to be poor black and trans Americans and Hispanic Americans. Why do you, as a white middle class American, keep hating on the lived experiences of minority groups?

Edited 17 hours ago by Illuminati

[AvadaKedavra]

Is definitely over for the LGBTI community. Now the question is how we can fight back against this
I think we are in a tougher situation than the past. Cause now they have control of everything
 

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, Gaia said:

The exact same way you blame everything on "neolibs"

 

It was neoliberals that bought Teslas thinking that this billionaire was going to save us from climate change. The biggest cheerleaders of Elon Musk until like... 2023 were liberals, not conservatives. The people that now like him thought he was a woke leftist because he said Tesla supports pride just a few years ago. But, this man has never changed. He's the same egomaniacal narcissist that is obsessed with wealth and clout as he's always been. But, because now he has changed his social positioning and made a more pointed attempt to invest in one side (as opposed to both political parties like in years past), now liberals are mad at him.

 

This is why leftists say liberalism can very easily slide into fascism. Billionaires and the system designed to enable mass accumulation of wealth is the issue. Everything else is engineered to distract you from that. Elon Musk and his ilk weaponize social issues to manufacture cultural tension between conservatives and liberals while they increase their net worth by billions upon billions of dollars. Elon Musk was always evil and nothing he is doing now is fundamentally different from what he's always done, which is chase profit at whatever cost.

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Illuminati said:

I shift the burden of blame on you actually

This just makes me question if you're posting while high. 

 

You start from the position of thinking someone operates out of some attempted shaming so you try and flip the script. 

 

But I'm not gonna walk away feeling hurt. Like..what? Why would you think your sentiment makes sense? "You a New Jersey communist is why Harris lost!!!".

 

It just reads you have a fundamentally illiterate understanding of American politics. By virtue of living in NJ, I literally cannot impact the election of my own country for worse or better either way. 

 

8 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

harrassing trans people

Like this is rampant psychosis and mental illness. It shows how little you think of poor people that you have no problem just inventing lies out of thin air, let alone lies that don't even functionally make sense. 

 

You have some severe anger that someone like myself who is working class has demands to have my vote be earned and can't reconcile with that basic fact of holding powerful politicians that in your head you genuinely might think whatever you've invented is true. 

 

I don't even know how to engage with someone who thinks it's okay to lie just because they're angry that they're not gonna get American troops on the border between Europe and Russia or whatever. 

 

Unless Kamala Harris has secretly decided she's a trans masc stud and you think me going "I'll vote for her if she supports M4A" amounts to harassing a trans person, it's insane to just lie like in the quoted post because you didn't get your way and you couldn't bend poor Americans to your will. 

[Communion]

37 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

but many of whom you attack

Like this is just genuinely psychosis. 

 

Me:."I'm not gonna vote for Harris as long as she says she supports Israel killing Palestinians."

 

Your theoretical user: "I can't believe you're attacking me like this."

 

Again, the functionality is just not there for your argument.

 

Blue MAGA is not people who voted for Harris. They're people like yourself who attacked people who couldn't vote for Harris, even when the issue that decided that vote was actual, literal genocide. 

 

You genuinely don't seem to understand why or how people vote and thus do this rough translation of what you think sounds like a good argument. 

 

"Well, uh, YOURE attacking minorities for their vote????"

 

"What minority was attacked for voting for Kamala Harris?"

 

"KAMALA HERSELF!!!"

 

This is why I emphasize your foreignness. Because your attempt to engage in these issues for the sake of attacking the left come off as someone only tangently experienced with any of it. Someone who only brushed up against the realities of class and race in America through pop culture and TV and online forums. 

 

So you think there's some argument to be made to weaponize identity politics from big bad leftists that you've invented in your head whom you can blame, while the average poor voter of color in America has largely found voting to be a political dead-end and Democrats not worth voting for. 

 

Dems lost poor voters for the first time in decades. Your invention of what happened doesn't change the reality we as Americans must live with due to Harris' failure. 

[Illuminati]

8 minutes ago, Communion said:

I don't even know how to engage with someone who thinks it's okay to lie just because they're angry

Isn't this like your signature way to end every discussion? Just make something up, consult the voices in your head and then divert the conversation to statements no one made until they give up.

 

For example this was a discussion about trans issues and now we're discussing my location and diagnosis

[Communion]

10 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

Just make something up,

Trying to claim this just emphasizes that you're angry that the simple view of "Hey guys, I don't think Kamala is gonna win if she keeps running on doing genocide and campaigning with Liz Cheney" turned out to be ..well, extremely accurate. 

 

I didn't want to be right. I didn't want Trump to win. It's not however a personal attack on you that you ended up wrong and people you dislike ended up being right that Harris was running a bad campaign. 

 

There's no getting around the fact that Kamala ran a bad campaign and progressives' criticisms of why her campaign was gonna end up losing were right. 

 

It's horrific Trump won. But I never could have done anything to stop that. Your fight is with the lady whew blew $1b in campaign funds. 

[Communion]

25 minutes ago, Illuminati said:

For example this was a discussion about trans issues

Harms that are gonna come to trans people because Establishment Democrats ran an awful campaign and didn't somehow win an election despite $1b in their purse to blow.

 

We're only talking about why this is happening because those who defended Harris' campaign now have egg on their face and rush to blame progressives instead of reacting to the present and finding a way to challenge Trump.

 

None of this had to happen. Progressives were seemingly the only ones who understood that and whom are still fighting for trans people. 

[CallumDavies]

You get what you vote for, America

[family.guy123]

13 hours ago, CandleGuy said:

Fun, the "I'll never vote for genocide!" crowd gets to have genocide at home now.

Now? The genocide against persons Indigenous to NA has been ongoing for centuries at the hands of European colonizers/settlers. 

[XDNA]

7 hours ago, cuteboyzay said:

No because the way they kept pressuring people to vote for Kamala, and then the NEXT POST completely trash her. I had to call out one of my best friends (whose a leftist) for it and always questioned why he kept highlighting her shortcomings to his 2,000 follower                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

I will say, I still will NOT blame the Democratic Party/Leftists for Kamala losing. That's just the Right trying to deflect from the real issue that their President clinged onto so strongly to get their vote: Racism, Sexism, Xenophobia and Classism.

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying they were complicit. Since many of them spread MAGA propaganda and talking points during those crucial months.

[cuteboyzay]

15 minutes ago, XDNA said:

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying they were complicit. Since many of them spread MAGA propaganda and talking points during those crucial months.

They were def complicit, and it's crazy cause they couldn't even see why it was bad. Noowww look where we are! 

[ImpressMeMuch]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

It was neoliberals that bought Teslas thinking that this billionaire was going to save us from climate change. The biggest cheerleaders of Elon Musk until like... 2023 were liberals, not conservatives. The people that now like him thought he was a woke leftist because he said Tesla supports pride just a few years ago. But, this man has never changed. He's the same egomaniacal narcissist that is obsessed with wealth and clout as he's always been. But, because now he has changed his social positioning and made a more pointed attempt to invest in one side (as opposed to both political parties like in years past), now liberals are mad at him.

 

This is why leftists say liberalism can very easily slide into fascism. Billionaires and the system designed to enable mass accumulation of wealth is the issue. Everything else is engineered to distract you from that. Elon Musk and his ilk weaponize social issues to manufacture cultural tension between conservatives and liberals while they increase their net worth by billions upon billions of dollars. Elon Musk was always evil and nothing he is doing now is fundamentally different from what he's always done, which is chase profit at whatever cost.

and then there's those of us who were always side-eyeing him from the start sitting here like welcome to the party, it's nice here in hell!

[State of Grace.]

1 hour ago, XDNA said:

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying they were complicit. Since many of them spread MAGA propaganda and talking points during those crucial months.

Same way you're complicit in genocide since you spent the last year being a Biden deadender and jumped anyone who criticized Kamala for not distancing herself from him?

[ImpressMeMuch]

it's almost like no matter what anyone did, we were destined for the same awful ending because the power does not actually lie in the hands of the people....

 

so we should stop with the endless pot shots and told you sos that serve no meaning deeper than making each person feel nominally better about the meaningless decision and position they held

[XDNA]

1 minute ago, State of Grace. said:

Same way you're complicit in genocide since you spent the last year being a Biden deadender and jumped anyone who criticized Kamala for not distancing herself from him?

I didn't "jump everyone," since I logged far less time on ATRL civics than you or your groupies, dahhhling.

 

Anyway, that didn't stop all of you from name calling all liberals with the goal of discouraging people from voting for Kamala. Funny how you didn't have the same energy for Trump, and now you have eggs on your face. 

 

Sure, call us whatever, as you have done because you are complicit in supporting Trump's genocide of LGBT people and migrants. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, XDNA said:

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying they were complicit. Since many of them spread MAGA propaganda and talking points during those crucial months.

MAGA propaganda? Leftists were literally the only ones calling Gaza what it is: a genocide. Liberals and MAGA literally conspired to gaslight everyone with Zionist propaganda such as "Israel has a right to defend itself" and "There is no genocide"  

[ImpressMeMuch]

1 hour ago, ImpressMeMuch said:

and then there's those of us who were always side-eyeing him from the start sitting here like welcome to the party, it's nice here in hell!

may I also make an addendum here:

 

for those that realized elon (et al.) was sh*t a year ago, a month ago, or even right now - welcome! the water is... well there's no water here in hell. But it's fine. 

 

don't let the people over in the flame pit convince you that you shouldn't be here just because you realized it a bit later than the rest. We all belong here, in hell! 

Edited 11 hours ago by ImpressMeMuch

[XDNA]

9 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

MAGA propaganda? Leftists were literally the only ones calling Gaza what it is: a genocide. Liberals and MAGA literally conspired to gaslight everyone with Zionist propaganda such as "Israel has a right to defend itself" and "There is no genocide"  

 

 

I distinctly remember you were one of the people that shared Libs of TikTok content here. So yeah, you don't have much to stand on.

 

 

[Sheep]

7 hours ago, Communion said:

You're being childish

7 hours ago, Communion said:

you claim to care about marginalized people yet have no issue demonizing and punching down

6 hours ago, Communion said:

This just makes me question if you're posting while high

6 hours ago, Communion said:

It just reads you have a fundamentally illiterate understanding of American politics

6 hours ago, Communion said:

Like this is rampant psychosis and mental illness.

6 hours ago, Communion said:

You have some severe anger

 

Glass houses or whatever, I'm a messy cvnt too, but this is all just from this current page. This user constantly lowkey calls people fascists and genocide supporters and lives in a delusional bubble where he constantly pats himself on the back for having a large degree of "political influence" over a forum that we all initially joined to discuss people like Britney Spears and Rihanna. There is a CONSTANT stream of ad hominem, strawmen, and no true scotsman type low quality non-arguments to create a smokescreen for the fact that this user's positions are inconsistent and indefensible. They are not posting in good faith and instead openly admit to being on this forum specifically to disrupt and divide. This is not a report, HR, or HQ post because this user posts essays and some of the completely rule-breaking personal attacks that they sling out every other sentence clearly slide under the radar if they still feel this emboldened. I really wanted to emphasize the specific attacks so I'm quoting from this page since multiquoting doesn't work with the same post more than once, forgive me. @Ryan @Lee!!

 

 

 

@Illuminati I am genuinely sorry that you have been a target of this clearly unwell person. Nobody deserves to present their personal opinions that are consistent in their logic and to be treated like that, especially in a topic as gravely serious as the eroding rights of trans people. There's no reason to be this hateful when we all agree that trans rights are a good thing and the rise of the fascist right is a bad thing.

Edited 11 hours ago by Sheep

[ClashAndBurn]

Just now, XDNA said:

 

 

I distinctly remember you were one of the people that shared Libs of TikTok content here. So yeah, you don't have much to stand on.

 

 

lmao, you people are always making **** up about me. gtfo

[Domination]

Arguing with leftists about voting is a waste of time, y'all. Very few of them see the value in social democracy and that's not shade.

 

OT: Genuinely makes me fear for my trans friends. Grateful to live in a blue state but can only imagine if I didn't.