news Shocking New NYT Poll shows where Americans stand on trans issues

[Communion]

21 minutes ago, JanStan said:

You literally start every comment with assigning right and left. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Why can't you ever just address the actual statements made?

You don't get to complain about being ascribed being "right-wing" when your comments and arguments explicitly try to negatively frame left-wing thought at large.

 

Your false claims were directly addressed and it was explained why it's troubling and problematic if anyone takes the false claims you make as helpful.

 

Why would someone view your claims as done in good faith when, for example, they're objectively false?

 

Why do you have such harsh opinions on trans issues when seemingly unaware collegiate and professional trans athletes have to meet very specific health criteria?

 

 

3 minutes ago, JanStan said:

 despite what trans activists try to have you believe

 

lol............girl???

Edited 5 hours ago by Communion

[JoeAg]

I hate that people think of trans people as a community to take issue with. trans people are just trying to f*cking live their lives in peace and yet it's so difficult for them to have just that. I want my trans sisters (yes, sisters, they are absolutely part of a queer community I want to be a part of cause I have so much love and respect for them  MY idea of the LGBTQ+ community is so inclusive and I can't believe I even still have to clarify this but I guess I do considering how polarizing trans people somehow still are to so many people in 2025…) to feel included and to be able to just live their lives. I'd love to see many trans women participate in the olympics, if that's part of the goals of their respective lives. I'd love to see my best friend, who is also my roommate, who happens to be a trans man, never get discriminated against or harassed just for existing (fortunately, he hasn't been too much since he's lived in Denver, but I've seen one occasion at a gay bar we actually happen to typically love going to for its inclusive nature where someone purposefully misgendered him and was randomly a c*nt to him). it's just scary right now for the trans people in our community and I don't like it being scary for them 

[Headlock]

19 minutes ago, JanStan said:

You literally start every comment with assigning right and left. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Why can't you ever just address the actual statements made? I stopped reading whatever you wrote once you said right leaning liberal so don't bother responding to me. EVER. 

 

12 minutes ago, JanStan said:

I assumed that it would be understood that I wasn't saying that trans people shouldn't play on sports at all. The topic always revolves around biological men playing in women's sports and that's what I was referring to. Biological women in men's sports is never an issue because, despite what trans activists try to have you believe, there are obvious differences between biological men and women. 

These two posts back to back proving their point perfectly  *chefs kiss*

Edited 5 hours ago by Headlock

[GhostBox]

I think one of the biggest issues is how the whole "they them he she " stuff has been lumped together with the trans community. Not only has all of that silliness hurt them but the gay community as a whole. 

Edited 5 hours ago by GhostBox

[brazil]

The backlash against trans people is sad. This is also taking place here in Brazil. The most voted councilman in my city proposed 3 anti-trans projects in 3 days. Funny enough you can see he takes a lot of inspiration from the US.

 

Regarding sports though, I myself dont think trans women should automatically be able to participate in women's sports. Biological differences should be considered. I know there are hormones evaluation etc that usually needs to be done, but i believe the fact that the right is managing to get their point accross as this just being trans women automatically being able to compete shows we've not been able to be clear about this topic.

Edited 5 hours ago by brazil

[YourFavoriteWeapon]

Most women I know are cool with trans women who are only attracted to men but have an aversion to trans women who are only attracted to biological women due to them experiencing straight male socialization pre-transition and feeling like, at least a noticeable number of them, are more hostile. I think it's slightly unfair to lump all trans women who were straight men pre-transition in the same boat, but it is objective that there is a difference between a "cunty" pretty sassy Kim Petras/Blaire White type who just want to assimilate into society versus a Chris Chan looking high-knee stocking donning Redditor who deems genitalia preferences to be transphobic. 

Edited 4 hours ago by YourFavoriteWeapon

[Communion]

52 minutes ago, brazil said:

The backlash against trans people is sad. This is also taking place here in Brazil. The most voted councilman in my city proposed 3 anti-trans projects in 3 days. Funny enough you can see he takes a lot of inspiration from the US.

 

Regarding sports though, I myself dont think trans women should automatically be able to participate in women's sports. Biological differences should be considered. I know there are hormones evaluation etc that usually needs to be done, but i believe the fact that the right is managing to get their point accross as this just being trans women automatically being able to compete shows we've not been able to be clear about this topic.

This is Dems failing at counter-messaging because the bold simply... doesn't happen. Yet even reasonable people are tricked into believing it. 

 

1) Youth sports are not sex-segregated to begin with;

 

2) High school sports are social spaces that prep one for professional (collegiate) sports and thus schools defer to state-based guidances, with many states using gender identification to determination participation. We don't sex-segregate high school PE classes, for example;

 

3) The NCAA (collegiate sports) and professional sports organizations like the IOC all have specific health standards each athlete must meet, with such criteria being often so harsh as-is that there are cis female athletes in things like track and field who do not qualify to compete as "female" due to health conditions that they would need to "address" via undergoing specific hormone-related treatments.

 

These conversations become a bit exhausting only because... the right has been going at this for 10+ years. This is literally all Republicans yelled about during Trump's first presidency! Whereas a Republican politician will play into and spread disinformation on someone like Lia Thomas - where 99% of what the right claimed about her ending up being false - you find Democrats largely not actively defending trans people at the level of combatting disinformation, because they aim to preserve a "big tent".

 

Democrats don't lose elections due to trans issues. The average non-Trump Republican loses when focusing on trans issues.

 

Despite my issues with AOC, she correctly pointed out that the ads weren't just "Kamala Is for they/them". It was "...and Trump is for you".

 

That additional messaging is not different in how populist-coded it is than Sanders' "Not Me... Us". Trump didn't just run on anti-trans views. He ran on the unpopularity of Biden's post-COVID austerity politics and told everyone their groceries were expensive and life was hard because Dems explicitly moved money away from their everyday families to things like supporting trans people, supporting asylum seekers and immigrants (even when many of these claims were false).

 

From 2022:

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Communion

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, JanStan said:

I assumed that it would be understood that I wasn't saying that trans people shouldn't play on sports at all. The topic always revolves around biological men playing in women's sports and that's what I was referring to. Biological women in men's sports is never an issue because, despite what trans activists try to have you believe, there are obvious differences between biological men and women. 

Scientific research suggests otherwise:

Quote

Objective

The primary objective of this cross-­sectional study was to compare standard laboratory performance metrics of transgender athletes to cisgender athletes.

 

...

 

Results

In this cohort of athletes, TW had similar testosterone concentration (TW 0.7±0.5 nmol/L, CW 0.9±0.4 nmol/), higher oestrogen (TW 742.4±801.9 pmol/L, CW 336.0±266.3 pmol/L, p=0.045), higher absolute handgrip strength (TW 40.7±6.8 kg, CW 34.2±3.7 kg, p=0.01), lower forced expiratory volume in 1 s:forced vital capacity ratio (TW 0.83±0.07, CW 0.88±0.04, p=0.04), lower relative jump height (TW 0.7±0.2 cm/kg; CW 1.0±0.2 cm/kg, p<0.001) and lower relative V̇ O2max (TW 45.1±13.3 mL/kg/min/, CW 54.1±6.0 mL/kg/min, p<0.001) compared with CW athletes. TM had similar testosterone concentration (TM 20.5±5.8 nmol/L, CM 24.8±12.3 nmol/L), lower absolute hand grip strength (TM 38.8±7.5 kg, CM 45.7±6.9 kg, p=0.03) and lower absolute V̇ O2max (TM 3635±644 mL/min, CM 4467±641 mL/min p=0.002) than CM.

 

Conclusion

While longitudinal transitioning studies of transgender athletes are urgently needed, these results should caution against precautionary bans and sport eligibility exclusions that are not based on sport-­ specific (or sport-­ relevant) research.

 

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/58/11/586.full.pdf

 

The results of the above study show that, in most metrics, transwomen athletes are at a disadvantage to ciswomen athletes. Of course, this is a complex subject and depends on things like whether trans people have undergone HRT (hormone replacement therapy) or other forms of medical treatment. 

 

Needless to say, this issue is much more complicated than your average transphobic or even trans-apathetic commentator can discuss. In one corner, you have bigoted losers like Bill Maher fear-mongering around the use of puberty blockers because it can lead to "developmental problems" or reduced bone density—which would suggest that there are physiological disadvantages to transitioning to some population of transgender people. But, then, those same bigoted losers will still claim that that there is a natural advantage based on chromosomes that are unaffected by puberty blockers... despite them claiming that they cause developmental problems... In the other corner, you have transphobic people thinking they're "protecting women" by drawing these lines in the sand around the amount of testosterone can be present before someone is a "biological male" and must be barred from professional sports. The majority of the victims of this type of armchair biology is.... cisgender women, not transgender women.

 

In short, this is not a topic that should be discussed about by the majority of the population or even politicians in any capacity. It's a nuanced discussion that should be left to subject matter experts that know what the f*** they're talking about. Anyone saying we need to chime in on this issue en masse are falling for the most obvious trap in the world. This is a distraction. Trans people deserve basic rights and politicians should focus on fixing the economy, building public transportation, mandating universal healthcare, making college free, etc. 

[l3disko]

34 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Scientific research suggests otherwise:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/58/11/586.full.pdf

 

The results of the above study show that, in most metrics, transwomen athletes are at a disadvantage to ciswomen athletes. Of course, this is a complex subject and depends on things like whether trans people have undergone HRT (hormone replacement therapy) or other forms of medical treatment. 

 

Needless to say, this issue is much more complicated than your average transphobic or even trans-apathetic commentator can discuss. In one corner, you have bigoted losers like Bill Maher fear-mongering around the use of puberty blockers because it can lead to "developmental problems" or reduced bone density—which would suggest that there are physiological disadvantages to transitioning to some population of transgender people. But, then, those same bigoted losers will still claim that that there is a natural advantage based on chromosomes that are unaffected by puberty blockers... despite them claiming that they cause developmental problems... In the other corner, you have transphobic people thinking they're "protecting women" by drawing these lines in the sand around the amount of testosterone can be present before someone is a "biological male" and must be barred from professional sports. The majority of the victims of this type of armchair biology is.... cisgender women, not transgender women.

 

In short, this is not a topic that should be discussed about by the majority of the population or even politicians in any capacity. It's a nuanced discussion that should be left to subject matter experts that know what the f*** they're talking about. Anyone saying we need to chime in on this issue en masse are falling for the most obvious trap in the world. This is a distraction. Trans people deserve basic rights and politicians should focus on fixing the economy, building public transportation, mandating universal healthcare, making college free, etc. 

That study is manipulative, has major methodological flaws, isn't remotely conclusive in any way and even admits it in the end. It's just a limited study with virtually no actual performance data.

 

It compares flabby, out-of-shape middle-aged transgender women vs. athletic cis women half their age in peak condition.

 

Not to mention, researcher is Blair Hamilton, transgender athlete who played on a woman's soccer team who said her goal was to prove there was no athletic difference to her teammates. "Being male-born, the general argument which I'm trying to disprove in my research is that trans women have an advantage and that you're taking a place away from a girl"

 

Def far from the "scientific research" that should be entertained.

[brazil]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Scientific research suggests otherwise:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/58/11/586.full.pdf

 

The results of the above study show that, in most metrics, transwomen athletes are at a disadvantage to ciswomen athletes. Of course, this is a complex subject and depends on things like whether trans people have undergone HRT (hormone replacement therapy) or other forms of medical treatment. 

 

Needless to say, this issue is much more complicated than your average transphobic or even trans-apathetic commentator can discuss. In one corner, you have bigoted losers like Bill Maher fear-mongering around the use of puberty blockers because it can lead to "developmental problems" or reduced bone density—which would suggest that there are physiological disadvantages to transitioning to some population of transgender people. But, then, those same bigoted losers will still claim that that there is a natural advantage based on chromosomes that are unaffected by puberty blockers... despite them claiming that they cause developmental problems... In the other corner, you have transphobic people thinking they're "protecting women" by drawing these lines in the sand around the amount of testosterone can be present before someone is a "biological male" and must be barred from professional sports. The majority of the victims of this type of armchair biology is.... cisgender women, not transgender women.

 

In short, this is not a topic that should be discussed about by the majority of the population or even politicians in any capacity. It's a nuanced discussion that should be left to subject matter experts that know what the f*** they're talking about. Anyone saying we need to chime in on this issue en masse are falling for the most obvious trap in the world. This is a distraction. Trans people deserve basic rights and politicians should focus on fixing the economy, building public transportation, mandating universal healthcare, making college free, etc. 

You make very fair points, but in saying "this is not a topic that should be discussed about by the majority of the population or even politicians in any capacity." in literally the age where everyone feels like they should have an opinion about everything is not gonna advance the cause.

 

To beat the right's narrative, trans advocates actually need to go out and make their points accross, just like you did.

[Relampago.]

I will NEVER understand why people don't just take the "idc it's not my business" approach. 

 

I fear for my trans brothers and sisters, and I will never stop standing up for them. 

[Marianah Adkins]

40 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

I will NEVER understand why people don't just take the "idc it's not my business" approach. 

 

I fear for my trans brothers and sisters, and I will never stop standing up for them. 

This is the easiest approach but unfortunately asking the government to provide gender affirming care is too much for the GP to stomach. As I have said earlier, people are fine with them, they just dont want to spend money to "endorse their lifestyle" so to speak.

 

 

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, brazil said:

You make very fair points, but in saying "this is not a topic that should be discussed about by the majority of the population or even politicians in any capacity." in literally the age where everyone feels like they should have an opinion about everything is not gonna advance the cause.

 

To beat the right's narrative, trans advocates actually need to go out and make their points accross, just like you did.

I don’t think the majority should be talking about this issue. It’s one thing for activists and people educated on this topic to discuss it. That’s fine. But I think we need to instead focus on humanizing the trans community rather than limiting their exposure to controversial topics. Trans people are so easy to demonize because so few people actually know any trans people. That doesn’t mean we cede ground to the right. But we can reiterate that this entire culture war hellbent on demonizing trans people is a manufactured distraction. It’s important we move the existence of trans people out of being a political debate.