news Shocking New NYT Poll shows where Americans stand on trans issues

[Mupps]

Just one of the results of dividing and destabalizing the west through gender wars on social media. Certain countries loving this rn

[Solaria]

2 minutes ago, Vermillion said:

You don't need to tell that to most of us here. The problem is most lib Dem consultants are too terrified of the polling on this issue to attempt to mount a counterargument.

 

Which means the research and culture needs to advance further which I see taking decades.

We need a crackdown of social media. That is the real problem here. Trans people are contiously used as scapegoats or as sensationalist conversation topics (just look at that stupid Jubilee video with Blair White as the biggest example of this) and people fall for it, especially during economically dire times. Misinformation and algorithms are the cancer of this decade.

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Solaria said:

We need a crackdown of social media. That is the real problem here. Trans people are contiously used as scapegoats or as sensationalist conversation topics (just look at that stupid Jubilee video with Blair White as the biggest example of this) and people fall for it, especially during economically dire times. Misinformation and algorithms are the cancer of this decade.

Letting Musk buy twitter and basically undo all the moderating on anti-trans hate speech basically was a huge catalyst and liberals offered exactly zero answers for how to address and subdue the kind of massive right-wing propaganda it'd unlock, essentially letting a billionaire make a main algorithm of social media anti-trans.

 

Big Tech is never going to be the left's friend and the relationship between Democrats and it should have always been one of fear and control to keep Big Tech in its place. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Communion

[Bears01]

11 minutes ago, Velvet Night said:

It's not surprising at all. This is being used as a wedge issue to distract voters from things that really affect most people, like the economy, environment, education and healthcare.

You hit the nail on the head in my opinion. 
 

Although I do think there were loud activists who did harm to the movement. 
 

Like @Vermillion said, I think we'll reach a point where society will just accept it and be cool with it, like what's happened with a lot of major civil rights battles, but it could take a long time. Longer than expected 

[Marianah Adkins]

This was a no-brainer in my opinion. The Trans issue is just simply too polarizing for the electorate to handle. I mean if even ATRL is polarized about the issue, then what more for the general public. 

 

The way I see it, I think ppl are generally fine with the existence of trans ppl (live and let live mindset) but they are not OK with financially and culturally subsidizing their gender transitioning via puberty blockers. It also doesnt help that the trans athletes issue had further sowed polarization (with some trans activists causing their own downfall with some misguided takes on this issue). 

[Anthinos]

Well, the world has never really been tolerant of LGBT people. This is nothing new. We have had to fight for a long time and it will be many years and decades and maybe centuries before we are truly free. It's sad that this is the case. I think this moral panic will stop at some point but the next few years will be though. 

[Velvet Night]

15 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

You hit the nail on the head in my opinion. 
 

Although I do think there were loud activists who did harm to the movement. 
 

Like @Vermillion said, I think we'll reach a point where society will just accept it and be cool with it, like what's happened with a lot of major civil rights battles, but it could take a long time. Longer than expected 

I agree but in every major civil rights movement are always individuals whose approach might feel counterproductive to the larger cause. That said, history shows that societal acceptance does come eventually, even if the road is longer and more winding than we'd hoped.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

Anyone who acts surprised about this is living in a bubble of delusion. Many influential figures in contemporary political content such as Candace Owens or Jordan Peterson have started this campaign of transphobia. Amplified by famous channels on X such as LibsofTikTok, J.K. Rowling, and many others. And now we reached a point where the most powerful people on the planet (i.e Elon Musk) are also expressing negative views on transgenderism and "wokeness".

 

I'm just saddened to see that most of this hatred is rooted in falsehoods, ignorance and misinformation. Taking extreme examples to make unfair judgments about all transpeople. When in reality, most trans people want is safety, basic human rights and fairness in society. But oh well. Hate prevails again. 

[Redstreak]

36 minutes ago, Pavement Princess said:

It's a shame that trans people who simply want to live their lives as their gender and find their own sense of identity are villainized by radical fringe groups who make it a point that society needs to conform to their beliefs.

Radical fringe groups like libsoftiktok right?

[Jack!]

Is this shocking? I was already under the impression that sadly there was a negative reception to trans people being able to live their lives. 

[JanStan]

I think some of yall have either never played a sport in your life or are purposely being ignorant. A trans person playing on a sport doesn't just impact the athlete whose spot they took, but also the 100s if not thousands of athletes that they are playing against. 
 

And the BIGGEST issue was the creation of the trans 'umbrella'. Transness literally has no meaning. Anyone can be trans or not trans or both all within the same day. Men with full beards claim to be women with absolutely no intention of transitioning. You have non binary people who use she/him pronouns. Then those same people literally tell biological women what the definition of being a woman is. What could possibly have gone wrong? I hate that the activists have literally made the lives of trans ADULTS who actually transition more difficult than it already was. 
 

 

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, JanStan said:

I think some of yall have either never played a sport in your life or are purposely being ignorant. A trans person playing on a sport doesn't just impact the athlete whose spot they took, but also the 100s if not thousands of athletes that they are playing against. 
 

And the BIGGEST issue was the creation of the trans 'umbrella'. Transness literally has no meaning. Anyone can be trans or not trans or both all within the same day.

This is the best example of someone who is already a right-leaning liberal - who'd likely demand Dems move to the right - offering a stance that is both:

 

1) Factually wrong on what concerns voters

2) Factually wrong in how something works (every single sports organization requires some kind of quantified marker of being male/female usually measured by years on hormone replacement therapy and hormone levels)

 

These people want Democrats to focus on bullying 7-year-olds who simply socially transition for the crime of playing tee-ball into something like committing suicide instead of focusing on something productive like universal healthcare.

Edited 6 hours ago by Communion

[BTS]

You can see the shift happen in real time.

 

I've seen my own father who was always a progressive man who booked drag queens for gigs back in the 90s & 00s become extremely conservative about the same issue.

 

He was recently complaining about drag queens reading to children in libraries, and I had to remind him that he used to let us play with the drag queens when we were setting up their stages. 

[TheCheshireCat]

Yeahhh, my extended social groups are very diverse politically so its funny listening to one side who is very pro trans vs the other side who genuinely think we don't "need" pride and think being trans is usually just for attention / some flavour of mental illness.

 

What's interesting is that the pro trans side of my social group thinks all the anti trans folks are exclusively white rednecks, when unfortunately in reality its a lot of POC, and many of which are also affluent.

 

So in my experience both sides kinda have a mascot of the other side of the conversation that is totally off base. Ive heard a lot of things like: "I dont have problems with gays necessarily, but these trans people are always hanging out with kids" which just shows how effective the anti trans propaganda has been.

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, Keter said:

Some of the more vocal members of the community haven't done anyone any favors, that's for sure. I really think with the increase in detransition and as a reaction to the more radical talking points from the trans community, there might be a cultural and legislative backlash. Affirmation only care is creating a huge set of issues. I know several people in the LGBT community who want nothing to do with the T because of this rhetoric. 

Reminder that the most common reason for people to detransition is because of transphobia [ref].

 

At one point, being gay was a radical and seen with much disdain. It's embarrassing that members of the queer community join in the choir of the majority to pass on the same transphobic bile.

[Dera]

2 hours ago, JanStan said:

I think some of yall have either never played a sport in your life or are purposely being ignorant. A trans person playing on a sport doesn't just impact the athlete whose spot they took, but also the 100s if not thousands of athletes that they are playing against. 

girl not all of us think that sports is where "how you identify" should determine where you are allowed to play. I agree some leftists online were annoying about that, but that is not a consensus opinion. 

 

I'm interested in why your post frames "a trans person playing on a sport" as the problem itself, though. 

 

There is a difference between "trans people should not get to choose what sex they play against (by decision alone)", and "trans people should not play sports at all". Are you willing to make male sports culturally welcoming to feminine-looking male people, for example? 

[Vegvisir]

NYT should do a poll on wealth inequality in America.

 

Or a poll on access to medical care in America.

 

Or a poll on the cost of living in America.

 

I'm beyond f*cking sick of everyone debating these diversion tactics instead of holding focus on the billionaire class and their efforts to sink the rest of America for profit.

[lauvender]

less than 1% of the population has people so worked up... just leave us alone.

 

I bet 99% of people don't even know one trans person in their lives or are directly affected by any, it's all from the news or propaganda, thanks Trump & Republicans.

[TheCheshireCat]

41 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Reminder that the most common reason for people to detransition is because of transphobia [ref].

 

At one point, being gay was a radical and seen with much disdain. It's embarrassing that members of the queer community join in the choir of the majority to pass on the same transphobic bile.

Just sort of thinking out loud, but isn't this just human nature? Look at how many Mexican Americans were happy to kick out "illegals" because they felt it made them look bad? Even in the trans community there is a divide i've seen brewing between trans girls who pass and the ones who don't, "They make us look bad" etc.

 

The idea that all people under the very broad queer umbrella would band together in solidarity with the trans community is wishful thinking, unfortunately. I think most people are looking out for themselves.

[Bloo]

3 minutes ago, TheCheshireCat said:

The idea that all people under the very broad queer umbrella would band together in solidarity with the trans community is wishful thinking, unfortunately. I think most people are looking out for themselves.

I never said it wasn't. But, that doesn't make it any less shameful when members of the LGBTQ+ community turn on their own. Violence is a part of human nature, but that doesn't mean we throw our arms up and not commit to a moral position.

[TheCheshireCat]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make it any less shameful when members of the LGBTQ+ community turn on their own. Violence is a part of human nature, but that doesn't mean we throw our arms up and not commit to a moral position.

Fair. Just in my own experience Ive noticed formerly progressive straight folks are drawing the line with trans issues, and my assumed role (being a gay cis male, a member of the community) as having to educate them has been especially difficult, especially with the amount of wild stuff they can point to, mainly things with children.

 

Sometimes it gets pretty tricky, where it actually sets off some self preservation alarms in my mind where i'm like "If I try to dispute this wild claim right now, are they going to associate me with defending groomers?" which is such a shame, because I don't believe kids are being groomed… but unfortunately, they do. 

 

It's difficult to navigate, especially when you are in and around mostly straight people who really don't care to "do the work" and listen to people who they consider to be "other", sometimes it feels pretty futile. 

[Mike91]

4 hours ago, Velvet Night said:

It's not surprising at all. This is being used as a wedge issue to distract voters from things that really affect most people, like the economy, environment, education and healthcare.

This is probably my biggest issue with how it is being handled. 

 

All dems have to say is that it's a personal decision between a person and their doctor and that the government has no place in dictating it. It's an issue that affects less than 1% of the population and it's being used to distract the American people. Negates the issue without throwing anyone overboard. 

 

Dems need to better message that it's the right who are hyper-focused on identity politics because they have no plans to actually help working class Americans. 

[Bloo]

34 minutes ago, TheCheshireCat said:

Fair. Just in my own experience Ive noticed formerly progressive straight folks are drawing the line with trans issues, and my assumed role (being a gay cis male, a member of the community) as having to educate them has been especially difficult, especially with the amount of wild stuff they can point to, mainly things with children.

 

Sometimes it gets pretty tricky, where it actually sets off some self preservation alarms in my mind where i'm like "If I try to dispute this wild claim right now, are they going to associate me with defending groomers?" which is such a shame, because I don't believe kids are being groomed… but unfortunately, they do. 

 

It's difficult to navigate, especially when you are in and around mostly straight people who really don't care to "do the work" and listen to people who they consider to be "other", sometimes it feels pretty futile. 

I have to have these tough conversations with my mom and it's the one issue where we have massive disagreements. She agrees with me on essentially everything else. But we will have heated arguments on the issue of trans rights. This is because she has fallen to believe disinformation about the trans community. Frankly, I don't entertain it and usually just flatly tell her that the things she's citing are not real (e.g., mass detransitioning, gender-affirming surgeries on children, predatory gender clinics telling people they're trans for profit) or overblown (e.g., trans athletes). It might be awkward, but that's the best thing you can do in these moments. At one point, simply being gay was tantamount to being a child predator because that was the widespread assumption.

 

Surrendering to the manufactured, bigoted talking points isn't productive. The best thing we can do is combat them. It's going to be uncomfortable and grueling until there's a cohesive social retaliation to the transphobic rhetoric that now dominates our conversations. But, surrendering isn't an option.

[JanStan]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

This is the best example of someone who is already a right-leaning liberal - who'd likely demand Dems move to the right - offering a stance that is both:

 

1) Factually wrong on what concerns voters

2) Factually wrong in how something works (every single sports organization requires some kind of quantified marker of being male/female usually measured by years on hormone replacement therapy and hormone levels)

 

These people want Democrats to focus on bullying 7-year-olds who simply socially transition for the crime of playing tee-ball into something like committing suicide instead of focusing on something productive like universal healthcare.

You literally start every comment with assigning right and left. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. Why can't you ever just address the actual statements made? I stopped reading whatever you wrote once you said right leaning liberal so don't bother responding to me. EVER. 

[JanStan]

1 hour ago, Dera said:

girl not all of us think that sports is where "how you identify" should determine where you are allowed to play. I agree some leftists online were annoying about that, but that is not a consensus opinion. 

 

I'm interested in why your post frames "a trans person playing on a sport" as the problem itself, though. 

 

There is a difference between "trans people should not get to choose what sex they play against (by decision alone)", and "trans people should not play sports at all". Are you willing to make male sports culturally welcoming to feminine-looking male people, for example? 

I assumed that it would be understood that I wasn't saying that trans people shouldn't play on sports at all. The topic always revolves around biological men playing in women's sports and that's what I was referring to. Biological women in men's sports is never an issue because, despite what trans activists try to have you believe, there are obvious differences between biological men and women.