Popular Post Keter Posted 5 hours ago Popular Post Posted 5 hours ago Some of the more vocal members of the community haven't done anyone any favors, that's for sure. I really think with the increase in detransition and as a reaction to the more radical talking points from the trans community, there might be a cultural and legislative backlash. Affirmation only care is creating a huge set of issues. I know several people in the LGBT community who want nothing to do with the T because of this rhetoric. 17 9 6
Popular Post CaptainMusic Posted 5 hours ago Popular Post Posted 5 hours ago (edited) This isn't shocking at all. First of all, there's a difference between going "too far" and "reaching a reasonable amount" so not sure why they were combined. Most people I know, who support trans rights, still think trans women shouldn't be able to compete in women's sports. You just can't ignore the biological advantage. Puberty blockers is another area where there needs to be a lot more education, but it's been clear many people have fallen for the transphobic propaganda about it. There's definitely been a rise in transphobia globally, but I'd like to have seen less obvious questions that give a better idea of what Americans think of trans people. Edited 5 hours ago by CaptainMusic 1 40
Contessa Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago All the sensationalist language and phrasing used on the questions and statements are not lost on me lol Typical biased nyt poll 12 2
Popular Post Communion Posted 5 hours ago Popular Post Posted 5 hours ago (edited) For clarity though, that initial tweet is misleading. They seem to be grouping "society is too accommodating" with "society has done just enough". If you're trying to measure "backlash" to trans people, you'd group the "I'm satisfied with the current situation" group with the "not enough" option. So in actually - Too Far - 49% Total | 77% GOP | 23% Dem | 31% Indies Not Too Far - 49% Total | 21% GOP | 76% Dem | 44% Indies This is in line with other polling. While independents may not like everything Dems do, they consistently are *further* not-aligned with Republicans as the more extreme option. Positive view of trans people's place in society: +13 (Indies) | +53 (Dems / +40 vs Indies) | -56 (GOP / -69 vs Indies) Edited 5 hours ago by Communion 18 6
Vermillion Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago Conservative activists Christopher Rufo and Chaya Raichik knew that there was an opening on the trans athlete issue to then broaden to wider resentment. It's a tactic that's been used before effectively and they've done it again. The current civil war in the Massachusetts Democratic Party regarding Representative Seth Moulton on this exact issue is a perfect example of this. Alito cited inconclusive research out of Europe in the oral testimony for the trans youth case that's likely going to fail this summer, which is a situation that I'd compare to Bowers V Hardwick, that was then reversed in Lawrence vs. Texas except the gap between the intense backlash and any recovery is going to be a lot longer. I'm predicting somewhere in the range of 15 to 20 years at a minimum. I'm not sure how else to say this but the inherent conflict at the root of a lot of this is that there's a lot of trans youth out there that want hormone access prior to turning 18 as do the experts they're working with to avoid suicidal ideation and there's a lot of discomfort on that specific issue regardless of any competitive sport with a lot of Americans. Until that's resolved there's going to be cultural gridlock on this issue until the research and the culture catches up. It's felt at times like virtually all of politics in the UK was defined by either trans people or migration and it's been that way for a while. It was just a matter of time before that culture war reached our shores. 2
DevilsRollTheDice Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago The Tweet is a bit misleading, but the data for sports and puberty blockers is interesting. I think we need to stop treating this like a settled civil rights issue and that everyone who hesitates over the aforementioned topics is a bigot. There are lots of religious zealots who ARE bigots and who straight up hate trans people (and all LGBTQ+ people), but issues like sports and access to hormones for minors are more complicated than something like marriage equality. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it starts with the realization that most of the country (including left leaning people) are NOT on the same page with activists on this issue. 10 3
Popular Post dman4life Posted 4 hours ago Popular Post Posted 4 hours ago I really hate how such a small percentage of the population has been scapegoated like this for political purposes. 23
Vermillion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago Just now, dman4life said: I really hate how such a small percentage of the population has been scapegoated like this for political purposes. The "she's for they/them" ads were objectively effective according to all the post-election stats on the exact demos Kamala needed: Latino men and working-class white women. 1
Onyxmage Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago Not allowing the FIVE trans kids in the entire country not to play sports isnt hurting the entire trans community but it does make people feel like they are "protecting" their children when all they are doing is raising an entire generation of bigots. Unfortunately thats where we are right now. 4
Onyxmage Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 8 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: The Tweet is a bit misleading, but the data for sports and puberty blockers is interesting. I think we need to stop treating this like a settled civil rights issue and that everyone who hesitates over the aforementioned topics is a bigot. There are lots of religious zealots who ARE bigots and who straight up hate trans people (and all LGBTQ+ people), but issues like sports and access to hormones for minors are more complicated than something like marriage equality. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it starts with the realization that most of the country (including left leaning people) are NOT on the same page with activists on this issue. Ironically their kids will still suck at sports whether they are competing against trans athletes or not.
Scheissex Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago This isn't really shocking for anyone who spends time in the actual world. Both sides have created such hysteria around an issue that affects <1% of the population. 8 3
MAKSIM Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 11 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: The Tweet is a bit misleading, but the data for sports and puberty blockers is interesting. I think we need to stop treating this like a settled civil rights issue and that everyone who hesitates over the aforementioned topics is a bigot. There are lots of religious zealots who ARE bigots and who straight up hate trans people (and all LGBTQ+ people), but issues like sports and access to hormones for minors are more complicated than something like marriage equality. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think it starts with the realization that most of the country (including left leaning people) are NOT on the same page with activists on this issue. It's a more complicated issue because marriage equality was a very clear example of "x" group has this exclusive thing, why shouldn't "y" group as it isn't hurting anyone. With sports, it's why should "x 14 yo trans girl" have a spot on the soccer team, when it means "y 14 yo girl at birth" loses her spot. There's an actual zero sum result. Of course these are fringe cases, but they make sensational headlines. Edited 4 hours ago by MAKSIM
Uncatena Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 30 minutes ago, Keter said: Some of the more vocal members of the community haven't done anyone any favors, that's for sure. I really think with the increase in detransition and as a reaction to the more radical talking points from the trans community, there might be a cultural and legislative backlash. Affirmation only care is creating a huge set of issues. I know several people in the LGBT community who want nothing to do with the T because of this rhetoric. How the **** do you manage to blame this on people who detransition, which is a laughably minuscule number, in the first ******* reply. The one and only reason these numbers look like this is because of anti-trans propaganda from the right. Edited 4 hours ago by Uncatena 1
Vermillion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, MAKSIM said: Of course these are fringe cases, but they make sensational headlines. The problem is the sensationalist headlines work, specifically in the UK where the small percentage of detransitioners have been effectively made out to be the majority, stalling any progress almost permanently. 1
Communion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 50 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Christopher Rufo and Chaya Raichik knew that there was an opening on the trans athlete issue to then broaden wider resentment. It's a tactic that's been used before effectively and they've done it again. The current civil war in the Massachusetts Democratic Party regarding Representative Seth Moulton on this exact issue is a perfect example of this. Alito cited inconclusive research out of Europe in the oral testimony for the trans youth case that's likely going to fail this summer, which is a situation that I'd compare to Bowers V Hardwick, that was then reversed in Lawrence vs. Texas except the gap between the intense backlash and any recovery is going to be a lot longer. I'm predicting somewhere in the range of 15 to 20 years at a minimum. I'm not sure how else to say this but the inherent conflict at the root of a lot of this is that there's a lot of trans youth out there that want hormone access prior to turning 18 as do the experts they're working with to avoid suicidal ideation and there's a lot of discomfort on that specific issue regardless of any competitive sport with a lot of Americans. Until that's resolved there's going to be cultural gridlock on this issue until the research and the culture catches up. It's felt at times like virtually all of politics in the UK was defined by either trans people or migration and it's been that way for a while. It was just a matter of time before that culture war reached our shores. Just wanted to link the below and highlight the trend in other data shown. Seth Moulton was basically rejected by his deep blue district in large part because he seemingly - for some reason - decide to make the issue about even youth sports, where Republicans largely don't have grounding. And that more detailed polling shows us that, in reality, the average Republican view is extreme and alienating to most non-Republicans. Someone a few months ago tried linking polling showing negative attitudes on trans issues, but the actual detailed breakdown shows the same trend as here. That Republicans are largely extreme on most issues involving trans people and Dems would actually hurt themselves by shifting right on the issue instead of finding where the public is more sympathetic with trans people and attacking Republicans on it (ex: "Republicans want your child to kill themselves". I'll try to find the original poll someone linked but Republicans hating even trans *children* and even *social affirmation* is alienating to most voters. Like Seth Moulton is an idiot for trying in a deep blue Massachusetts district to argue Dems need to get tough on *re-reads* 8-year-olds playing soccer. Edited 4 hours ago by Communion 2 1
Vermillion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago There's one user on here with a Serena Williams avi with no nuance on this topic that always ruins any thread with this subject so I'm hoping they don't show up. 2
dman4life Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 14 minutes ago, Vermillion said: The "she's for they/them" ads were objectively effective according to all the post-election stats on the exact demos Kamala needed: Latino men and working-class white women. Yeah I know it's beyond sad
Solaria Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago The way people have taken detransitioning and framed it as the most compelling evidence against transgenders is sending me they form a DUSTMITE of the total trans community in comparison to trans people who either go into social transition or physical transition or both. Can we PLEASE start educating people better on this ****. I am so tired of this narrative.
Uncatena Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago I feel so incredibly awful for my trans brothers and especially sisters, who have been made into puppets for a nazi propaganda machine. All they want is basic human respect and the right to lead a fulfilling life, like all of us. That basic ask is met with vitriol, hatred, disgust and mockery. Cis (and even non-binary) folks need to ******* get up and do more. If the people who fought for our very little rights today are not being uplifted and helped, there is no hope for the entire LGBTQ+ community. 4
Pavement Princess Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago It's a shame that trans people who simply want to live their lives as their gender and find their own sense of identity are villainized by radical fringe groups who make it a point that society needs to conform to their beliefs. 3
Velvet Night Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago It's not surprising at all. This is being used as a wedge issue to distract voters from things that really affect most people, like the economy, environment, education and healthcare. 10
Vermillion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Solaria said: The way people have taken detransitioning and framed it as the most compelling evidence against transgenders is sending me they form a DUSTMITE of the total trans community in comparison to trans people who either go into social transition or physical transition or both. Can we PLEASE start educating people better on this ****. I am so tired of this narrative. You don't need to tell that to most of us here. The problem is most lib Dem consultants are too terrified of the polling on this issue to attempt to mount a counterargument. Which means the research and culture needs to advance further which I see taking decades. 1
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