base talk Has Taylor Swift reached legend status?

[Badgalbriel]

1 hour ago, A Million Lights said:

Maybe an icon. She's not on Adele, Beyoncé and Gaga league yet.

People only consider you a legend when you're dead or when you're a fad. So yeah, I agree with your statement. They're definitely not dead. 

[The Music Industry]

1 hour ago, Trent W said:

But I wouldn't say she's as respected as someone like Beyonce yet.

 

She definitely is, especially on a global scale. Taylor is by far seen as the biggest legend among our MPGs in Asia, the biggest continent on Earth. 

 

1 hour ago, Trent W said:

I think she only needs to release better music and stay away from pure pop and juvenile lyrics 

 

She's older now and she needs to evolve her sound into something more complex and less chart chasing

This narrative is tired. TTPD is definitely her most mature album to date both in themes and in lyrics. Y'all normally pinpoint 2 "juvenile" non-single songs out of 31 (one that is literally meant to include high school metaphors as she said the chase of her new relationship at the time reminded her of those times, and another one purposely goofy to make fun about how her and her ex are not really tortured poets) . 

 

I would also love to know exactly how TTPD, an album filled with slow piano/acoustic songs, her most unrelatable album to date as it is extremely specific to what she was going through, is made of chart-chasing sounds? Sounds to me like if she just wanted to smash, it would've been easier to just release an album that actually sounds like what usually currently tops the streaming charts? Do you see a lot of people smashing on Spotify with songs that sound like TTPD? If so please do share I'd love to listen to them tbh 

Edited 2 hours ago by The Music Industry

[Dear Reader]

To those saying no:

 

 

[MidnightsAtPeace]

It's like asking if katy perry is a has-been

ofc she is a legend, and whoever thinks otherwise is in denial 

[DevilsRollTheDice]

6 minutes ago, swissman said:

OR when they do something that gives them some "distance" from their peers in the industry (not just a level of success but access, or some sort of game changing output) that fast tracks their status in real time.

 

 

I think this is a generally correct and measured take but I'm not sure how 4 AOTYs, folklore, TTPD's unfathomable debut, and ESPECIALLY The Eras Tour and 23/24 Taymania that was the second coming of The Beatles wouldn't qualify here. 
 

The Eras Tour alone garnered more media attention than entire careers of her contemporaries and made her Time's Person of the Year. World leaders were publicly begging Taylor to visit their countries. People happily spent thousands and thousands of dollars on resale tickets and tens of thousands of people stood outside just to be close. Using your own definition here, she has plenty of options including the singular biggest culture moment of the 21st century to "fast track" her. 

[Gorjesspazze9]

At this point yeah. She already coming for Madonna's level. 

[MidnightsAtPeace]

4 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

She definitely is, especially on a global scale. Taylor is by far seen as the biggest legend among our MPGs in Asia, the biggest continent on Earth by far. 

 

This narrative is tired. TTPD is definitely her most mature album to date both in themes and in lyrics. Y'all normally pinpoint 2 "juvenile" non-single songs out of 31 (one that is literally meant to include high school metaphors as she said the chase of her new relationship at the time reminded her of those times, and another one purposely goofy to make fun about how her and her ex are not really tortured poets) . 

 

I would also love to know exactly how TTPD, an album filled with slow piano songs, her most unrelatable album to date as it is extremely specific to what she was going through, is made of chart-chasing sounds? Sounds to me like if she just wanted to smash, it would've been easier to just release an album that actually sounds like what usually currently tops the streaming charts? Do you see a lot of people smashing on Spotify with songs that sound like TTPD? If so please do share I'd love to listen to them tbh 

they're gonna hate me for saying this but I think ttpd is the least commercial-sounding/risky album a main pop girl released in 2024, especially knowing that she was in the peak of her career and easily could've released something way moreee commercial and safe

[Trent W]

5 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

She definitely is, especially on a global scale. Taylor is by far seen as the biggest legend among our MPGs in Asia, the biggest continent on Earth by far. 

 

This narrative is tired. TTPD is definitely her most mature album to date both in themes and in lyrics. Y'all normally pinpoint 2 "juvenile" non-single songs out of 31 (one that is literally meant to include high school metaphors as she said the chase of her new relationship at the time reminded her of those times, and another one purposely goofy to make fun about how her and her ex are not really tortured poets) . 

 

I would also love to know exactly how TTPD, an album filled with slow piano songs, her most unrelatable album to date as it is extremely specific to what she was going through, is made of chart-chasing sounds? Sounds to me like if she just wanted to smash, it would've been easier to just release an album that actually sounds like what usually currently tops the streaming charts? Do you see a lot of people smashing on Spotify with songs that sound like TTPD? If so please do share I'd love to listen to them tbh 

The sound and production of this album still sounds like something a 17 year old girl would put out tho, this album doesn't sound like Folklore which was a mature sound

 

Some parts of TTPD are still immature, that song about Kim was tragic

 

In general I love TTPD because it makes me feel like a teen again in a nostalgic way, but so does Midnights and some of her albums

 

The thing is that it is overdone, she's 35 years old, even titles like you're so high school are expired at that age.

 

And yes she's a legend, but no one would put her in the same boat as Beyonce in terms of respect 

 

To be fair, I don't see any other female being as respected as Bey in this lifetime in music

 

 

[The Music Industry]

5 minutes ago, Trent W said:

The sound and production of this album still sounds like something a 17 year old girl would put out tho, this album doesn't sound like Folklore which was a mature sound

 

Some parts of TTPD are still immature, that song about Kim was tragic

 

In general I love TTPD because it makes me feel like a teen again in a nostalgic way, but so does Midnights and some of her albums

 

The thing is that it is overdone, she's 35 years old, even titles like you're so high school are expired at that age.

 

And yes she's a legend, but no one would put her in the same boat as Beyonce in terms of respect 

 

To be fair, I don't see any other female being as respected as Bey in this lifetime in music

 

 

I don't see any 17 year-old releasing songs like The Albatross, Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus, The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, The Prophecy, Cassandra, The Manuscript, I Hate It Here, loml, So Long, London, etc, but ok. You also failed to explain how TTPD's sound is chart-chasing. Who else is smashing with songs like TTPD currently? Are songs with a similar sound currently toping the streaming charts? Airplay? 

Edited 1 hour ago by The Music Industry

[NoOneDiesFromLove]

In more ways than one and anyone disagreeing is willfully blind 

[landof0oo]

Yes she is.

 

Apart from the gays, nobody cares about beyonce outside of America and EU.

 

But Taylor mania is alive and palpable.

[swissman]

5 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

I think this is a generally correct and measured take but I'm not sure how 4 AOTYs, folklore, TTPD's unfathomable debut, and ESPECIALLY The Eras Tour and 23/24 Taymania that was the second coming of The Beatles wouldn't qualify here. 
 

The Eras Tour alone garnered more media attention than entire careers of her contemporaries and made her Time's Person of the Year. World leaders were publicly begging Taylor to visit their countries. People happily spent thousands and thousands of dollars on resale tickets and tens of thousands of people stood outside just to be close. Using your own definition here, she has plenty of options including the singular biggest culture moment of the 21st century to "fast track" her. 

I didn't say she hasn't qualified though. My paragraph started by outright saying she has.

My point was that she is too currently active to be currently labelled as a legend and thus all she needs is distance (and I very clearly specified I didn't mean distance in success, and all of which you mentioned is basically evidence of that) to start looking at her with a sense of nostalgia not someone who very much still represents "the now". And the word "legend" is inherently referencing something that is not contemporary. Taylor Swift very much is.

[swissman]

3 minutes ago, landof0oo said:

Yes she is.

 

Apart from the gays, nobody cares about beyonce outside of America and EU.

 

But Taylor mania is alive and palpable.

What does Beyoncé have to do with this? Also that statement simply is not true.

[wastedpotential]

6 minutes ago, Trent W said:

The sound and production of this album still sounds like something a 17 year old girl would put out tho, this album doesn't sound like Folklore which was a mature sound

 

Some parts of TTPD are still immature, that song about Kim was tragic

 

In general I love TTPD because it makes me feel like a teen again in a nostalgic way, but so does Midnights and some of her albums

 

The thing is that it is overdone, she's 35 years old, even titles like you're so high school are expired at that age.

 

And yes she's a legend, but no one would put her in the same boat as Beyonce in terms of respect 

 

To be fair, I don't see any other female being as respected as Bey in this lifetime in music

 

 

dddd posts like this make me question if you've actually listened to the album or not. What about any of these is "teen nostalgia" and "immature"? Hell, tell me which of these wouldn't fit square in the middle of folklore with their production and lyrics? 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Most people seriously consider TTPD (especially The Anthology) to be the third folklore/evermore sister album because she tapped into a very similar sonic vein but okay Trent W you're right and we're all wrong, these are all generic high school pop songs 

[Rev8]

Not saying No, but..

 

..reminder that "Legend" doesn't mean having the most sales, biggest tour, all of the awards and etc..

[DevilsRollTheDice]

8 minutes ago, swissman said:

I didn't say she hasn't qualified though. My paragraph started by outright saying she has.

My point was that she is too currently active to be currently labelled as a legend and thus all she needs is distance (and I very clearly specified I didn't mean distance in success, and all of which you mentioned is basically evidence of that) to start looking at her with a sense of nostalgia not someone who very much still represents "the now". And the word "legend" is inherently referencing something that is not contemporary. Taylor Swift very much is.

I think your use of "OR" implied that you had to have that nostalgia factor OR be fast tracked. In that context, if you don't consider 4 AOTY wins or The Eras Tour game changing output then I don't think anyone qualifies as a legend. 
 

Either way, I still think Taylor still qualifies. The TV project and The Eras Tour are both major nostalgia projects. She's just doing something unique in that she's being a legacy act while being the biggest artist in the world at the same time. There isn't really a model for that. 

Edited 1 hour ago by DevilsRollTheDice

[l3disko]

2 minutes ago, swissman said:

What does Beyoncé have to do with this? Also that statement simply is not true.

It's true but it simply has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Lets stay on topic.

[hawx23]

I don't think she's even reached her peak tbh 

 

What differentiates Tay from many of the other pop girls out there is she has songwriting in her blood, so she'll probably be writing songs to her old age. I'd love to see her output when she's past the pop sensibilities, for example, and goes deeper into folk or back to country. She has so many avenues to turn to (similar to Gaga in a way with jazz and adult contemporary). 

[swissman]

5 minutes ago, l3disko said:

It's true but it simply has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Lets stay on topic.

"Nobody cares about Beyoncé outside of America and EU" is emphatically not true. All we need is one person living in neither place to care about Beyoncé and automatically that statement is invalidated. And even allowing it to be mere hyperbole, the statement still would not be true taking into account the considerable success she's had in places like Australia, Brasil, South Africa, etc.

OT: Yes and No

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by swissman

[Daddy]

Yes, she is. No doubt about it. 

[prettyinpink940]

Yes.

[swissman]

21 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

I think your use of "OR" implied that you had to have that nostalgia factor OR be fast tracked. 
 

Either way, I still think Taylor still qualifies. The TV project and The Eras Tour are both major nostalgia projects. She's just doing something unique in that she's being a legacy act while being the biggest artist in the world at the same time. There isn't really a model for that. 

Yes, I did imply that there might be two ways to reach it (nostalgia or a fast tracking) but in that same sentence specified that I didn't consider "a level of success" to be something that fast-tracks one into legend hood. Fast-tracking to me requires more outwardly bold and almost perplexing choices that directly sets one apart from their peers, not just in interesting or tactful marketing but in having oneself be seen as completely different artist and thus, putting that needed distance from your established level and whatever is next.

 

As I said twice already, I think she does qualify. That was never in contention. What I said was that there needs to be some sort of distance from her current output/celebrity and her career in order for the "legend" status to really hold the true and accurate weight of the word in the same way it does for a Michael, a Whitney, a Mariah, etc.

The nostalgia-forward things she's doing are great and certainly help establish her career as that of a legend, but she's also doing that alongside releasing contemporary works such that her nostalgia-forward moves are also contemporary moments, too. The Eras Tour is a lot different than Madonna's Celebration tour, not just because it also promoted two entirely new studio albums throughout its run, but she was still at the top of her game when it was launched.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by swissman

[byzantium]

She reached it years ago.  Anyone denying it is living in a bubble.  

[Trent W]

34 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

dddd posts like this make me question if you've actually listened to the album or not. What about any of these is "teen nostalgia" and "immature"? Hell, tell me which of these wouldn't fit square in the middle of folklore with their production and lyrics? 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Most people seriously consider TTPD (especially The Anthology) to be the third folklore/evermore sister album because she tapped into a very similar sonic vein but okay Trent W you're right and we're all wrong, these are all generic high school pop songs 

[Chorus]
All that time you were throwin' punches, I was buildin' somethin'
And I couldn't wait to show you it was real
Screamed, "**** you, Aimee" to the night sky as the blood was gushin'
But I can't forget the way you made me heal
Everyone knows that my mother is a saintly woman
But she used to say she wished that you were dead
I pushed each boulder up the hill
Your words are still just ringin' in my head, ringin' in my head

 

 

I'm sorry but I can't put the Anthology in the same level than Folklore or evermore with a song that contains that MESS

 

And yes it is immature to be 35 years old and have songs written like that, same with You're so high school 

 

I also said that some parts of TTPD were great I could agree some like The Albatross and The Prophecy could be in the level of Folklore

 

 

[Gladiator]

10 minutes ago, Trent W said:

[Chorus]
All that time you were throwin' punches, I was buildin' somethin'
And I couldn't wait to show you it was real
Screamed, "**** you, Aimee" to the night sky as the blood was gushin'
But I can't forget the way you made me heal
Everyone knows that my mother is a saintly woman
But she used to say she wished that you were dead
I pushed each boulder up the hill
Your words are still just ringin' in my head, ringin' in my head

 

 

I'm sorry but I can't put the Anthology in the same level than Folklore or evermore with a song that contains that MESS

 

And yes it is immature to be 35 years old and have songs written like that, same with You're so high school 

 

I also said that some parts of TTPD were great I could agree some like The Albatross and The Prophecy could be in the level of Folklore

 

 

We get it. You don't like thank you aimee and you're so high school.