base talk Taylor is the only MPG that could release a modern Ray of Light & you will deal

[Venice B]

Love Taylor but she couldn't even release a MDNA let alone a ROL 

 

[WEEKND]

On 1/3/2025 at 7:44 AM, The7thStranger said:

Adversity and finding peace is what led to the creation of Ray of Light, including Madonna's feelings about motherhood after losing her own mother at a young age, the death of her friends, and her becoming disillusioned with fame after dedicating her entire life to it. The Velvet Rope came from Janet's continued struggle with disordering eating and depression, her abusive first marriage, and coping with racism. Impossible Princess was Kylie trying to prove that she wasn't a vacuous disco Barbie doll. These struggles and motivations sparked real change in their content.

 

What fuels Taylor's music isn't on that level.

 

She can, but she often chooses to pad her albums with subpar, mediocre poetry. For every Ivy, there are 5 Bad Bloods.

 

Not in 2024 she doesn't.

Beautifully said 

 

I love reading posts where the intent isn't to be mean but rather to simply prove a point 

 

I agree with everything 

 

I will add that I don't wish adversity on blondie but how else one is supposed to grow. 
 

I went through hell 2 years ago and Sza's CTRL got me through it. Those records truly are the result of our pop girlies actually going thru hard times 

 

Taylor leads such a charmed life….. it's just not realistic 

[PartyFavor]

6 hours ago, John Slayne said:

Adele's 25, the 4th best selling album of this century, was heavily inspired by RoL, as was Nelly Furtado's Loose 

 

the album is also featured on several 'greatest albums of all time' lists

Greatest albums of all time does not indicate whether people actually are aware of these albums. The only thing the average person might know from ROL is Frozen.

 

I don't have anything against the album or Madonna. And I certainly don't think Taylor is capable of anything as interesting as ROL. My point is that stans have a fantasy of a pop girl serving another ROL and its funny because its truly a niche album that is not known by the majority of people who consume music.

[HardBambi]

On 1/3/2025 at 9:12 AM, Taylor fanboy said:

Who will give us American Life?

Katy

[Jay07]

57 minutes ago, PartyFavor said:

Greatest albums of all time does not indicate whether people actually are aware of these albums. The only thing the average person might know from ROL is Frozen.

 

I don't have anything against the album or Madonna. And I certainly don't think Taylor is capable of anything as interesting as ROL. My point is that stans have a fantasy of a pop girl serving another ROL and its funny because its truly a niche album that is not known by the majority of people who consume music.

I am always baffled when people try to conflate consumption with quality. Of course most people don't consume ROL, most people have shitty, basic taste (I will be benevolent and not mention the popstar masses mostly gravitate towards).

[Phaunzie]

No

[Damien M]

Madonna is spiritually curious, intellectually miles ahead of most and willing to be vulnerable and lay it all on the table for art. 
 

Taylor just isn't that kind of artist. She makes catchy songs with nice melodies for the masses— and is damn good at that. But she's not giving you a Mer Girl or Shanti/Ashtangi.

 

Maybe Billie Eillish when she's older or Beyoncé once she gets introspective and lets go of the wine mom/girl $$ boss persona.

[modeblock]

I see it for Billie, Lorde, Beyoncé, and Charli. To deliver something of ROL's caliber, she would need to dig much deeper than romantic love (winning, losing, etc.). She still hasn't let go of adolescent / rom-com'd ideals of love and that's stunted her artistic and lyrical progression. 

 

Do I think she has enough talent to pull it off? absolutely yes. But the problem is that she's not spiritually ready, and I'm not sure she's going to get there if continues this money hungry trajectory. 

[V$.]

[Valgorie]

But, will she?

[NOW]

Ray of Light was a perfect storm that came out after the successful Evita film and Madonna carried stronger vocal chops after going through extensive lessons, embraced spirituality to the highest degree, and most importantly, she just had her first child which completely changed her life. The album reflects all of that with a very experimental electronic sound palette that sounded familiar yet still very new for her.

 

Not saying any of these individual factors are requirements but Taylor would need to drastically change up everything based on whatever life-changing events she experiences. Madonna had already been gradually shifting away from the Material Girl image that made her a huge pop icon...does Taylor even have it in her to release a Like a Prayer before the discussion gets to Ray of Light?

[commander]

The tattooed golden retriever chanteuse? I would beg to differ 

[Mr. Stratus]

On 1/3/2025 at 8:55 AM, PartyFavor said:

The only people that care about Ray of Light are stans. Literally no one else in real life knows that album exists and its not even a top 3 best selling madonna album.

 

stans really need to let this fantasy go 

So true

fomo users for years going on about 'ha ray of light!' 'Ha blackout' no one cared at the time, they were just pop albums . Just give us a good album, many MPGs are capable of this

[Eternium]

On 1/3/2025 at 6:26 AM, The7thStranger said:

Taylor is, without a doubt, the closest we've had to a new Madonna in the way that she bends the music industry to her whim.

Taylor has never bent the music industry to her whim. She doesn't set trends - she follows them. The utter disrespect to Madonna and so many artists who have actually been cutting edge since her.

 

Taylor plays in a different field - she follows trends right after they blow up and have a proven, built-in audience. She's like 18 years into her career and hasn't innovated once or been new to a trend yet. That's fine for her and it clearly works commercially, but we don't need to pretend that she is an innovator.

On 1/3/2025 at 6:31 AM, Shimenawa said:

Honestly I think Billie is the one who could pull it off. She has the talent and is not afraid to take risks musically. But she is too young now

Actually, this is a fairly good point. Billie's sound is definitely heavily inspired by the evolution of dark pop from Impossible Princess to Mirwais Ahmadzai to In The Zone, etc. She needs to ditch the butch millennial look (I.e. just a different jersey and baggy pants for every shoot) and reinvent her imagery if she ever wants to have a piece of what Madonna has.

On 1/3/2025 at 6:33 AM, Sawk said:

 

You people are fools, Taylor Swift most definitely can create a Ray of Light-esque album that deals with (potential) motherhood and religious reinvention. 

This is not why Ray of Light was big. The lyrical content was a step up, but Madonna basically came back from being considered mostly talentless and vocally below her peers to delivering her most honest music yet with another reinvention that was ahead of its time sonically and featured vastly improved vocals. She did it at a low point in her career and when her image had taken a huge hit. Even if Taylor made something as good sonically, it wouldn't be a Ray of Light moment because it was a defining comeback for Taylor.

 

Madonna's peers were Celine, Whitney and Mariah at the time and they were blowing her away in terms of talent and success. Madonna was facing ageism, vast criticism for her embracing of sex and sexuality across the spectrum and criticism for her declining album sales. Then she came with an album and imagery so creative that it blew her peers out of the water and re-established her place. Do you honestly think Taylor is willing to improve her vocals like that and risk her album sales to give us avant-garde music?

[Eternium]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Stratus said:

So true

fomo users for years going on about 'ha ray of light!' 'Ha blackout' no one cared at the time, they were just pop albums . Just give us a good album, many MPGs are capable of this

Can Little Monsters go one day without being jealous of Madonna and Britney Spears? Imagine trying to argue that nobody at the time cared about Ray of Light when it became a standard for the industry and influenced just about every artist after. And to claim that Blackout was "just an album" when your fave, a Britney stan at the time, was heavily inspired by the sound. Y'all have this weird desire to rewrite history and it will NEVER work. Give it up.

[PartyFavor]

2 hours ago, Jay07 said:

I am always baffled when people try to conflate consumption with quality. Of course most people don't consume ROL, most people have shitty, basic taste (I will be benevolent and not mention the popstar masses mostly gravitate towards).

I wasn't conflating the two. You are failing to understand. The point of my original post in this thread is that people always want a pop girl to recreate ROL, a mostly unknown, niche madonna album. Its been going on for literal decades now.

 

no where did I say it wasn't a quality album. Saying its not even a top 3 selling madonna album was to point out that it is not this well-known magnum opus that people make it out to be. It is popular amongst madonna stans, and people who study pop music. More artists have quoted blackout as inspirational for them than ROL, but no one is making threads about the next blackout. Its just funny this is unique to this random album 

[SharGaga]

Nobody can recreate ROL. But Folklore is the closest she ever has been to creating something like that. Both exceptional and once in a lifetime albums for both artists imo. 

[Sawk]

8 minutes ago, Eternium said:

 

This is not why Ray of Light was big. The lyrical content was a step up, but Madonna basically came back from being considered mostly talentless and vocally below her peers to delivering her most honest music yet with another reinvention that was ahead of its time sonically and featured vastly improved vocals. She did it at a low point in her career and when her image had taken a huge hit. Even if Taylor made something as good sonically, it wouldn't be a Ray of Light moment because it was a defining comeback for Taylor.

 

Madonna's peers were Celine, Whitney and Mariah at the time and they were blowing her away in terms of talent and success. Madonna was facing ageism, vast criticism for her embracing of sex and sexuality across the spectrum and criticism for her declining album sales. Then she came with an album and imagery so creative that it blew her peers out of the water and re-established her place. Do you honestly think Taylor is willing to improve her vocals like that and risk her album sales to give us avant-garde music?

I wasn't talking about the reception necessarily, more so the content of the album. Taylor won't have the same problems as Madge did in the 90's because the climate is different and Taylor's fan base is larger so she isn't ever gonna "flop". The attitudes people had towards Madonna and the switch up that happened because of her newfound vocal abilities and religious beliefs were an amazing feat, but Taylor only needs another pre-Reputation hate train that is larger and she might come up with something real quick. Idk, I think people are underestimating Taylor in this thread a lot, even if, yes, Madonna is the riskier artist.

[Jay07]

 

13 minutes ago, PartyFavor said:

I wasn't conflating the two. You are failing to understand. The point of my original post in this thread is that people always want a pop girl to recreate ROL, a mostly unknown, niche madonna album. Its been going on for literal decades now.

 

no where did I say it wasn't a quality album. Saying its not even a top 3 selling madonna album was to point out that it is not this well-known magnum opus that people make it out to be. It is popular amongst madonna stans, and people who study pop music. More artists have quoted blackout as inspirational for them than ROL, but no one is making threads about the next blackout. Its just funny this is unique to this random album 

I still have no idea what your point is. Ray of Light is a watershed moment in pop culture and is a signifier for rebirth and adventurousness and I expect popstars to be knowledgeable and ambitious enough to strive for that. A niche Madonna album? It's probably the second most important Madonna album and one of the most important popstar albums of the 90s. The fact that it didn't sell as much as Like a Virgin or that Morgan Wallen stans aren't aware of it is irrelevant, it's the quality of the album and what it did for the artist that's important.

 

As for "more artists" claiming Blackout is more important that Ray of Light, you literally just made that up.

Edited Saturday at 10:12 PM by Jay07

[NEX]

Ray of Light was a masterclass in courage and reinvention, and more importantly Ray of Light had fresh, innovative and unique production. The last time Taylor had good production on an album was 1989 (which was more than 10 years ago!!). The way she keeps regurgitating super safe and super stale productions from Jack Antonoff and Aaron Deadbeat she's never have another Red in her discography, let alone a Ray of Light 

[PartyFavor]

26 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

 

 

As for "more artists" claiming Blackout is more important that Ray of Light, you literally just made that up.

I said more artists reference blackout as influential and an inspiration to their artistry. Did you look into it? There's significant amount of proof of this. Even as recent as 2024. I cant find the same for ROL. Some examples sure, but not as many references as Blackout.
 

But again, the point of bringing that up is older stans are the only ones calling for another ROL. No one else is really asking for it. Agree to disagree.

[PartyFavor]

Also, two things can be true. ROL can be a quality body of work, while not being relevant to current artists.

 

I am not a swifite. I like madonna and her influence as a whole is undeniable. It will NEVER not be funny for stans on the internet to continue to beg for a recreation of this album.

[Communion]

Need Ariana to re-find Kabbalah 

[Eternium]

7 minutes ago, PartyFavor said:

I said more artists reference blackout as influential and an inspiration to their artistry. Did you look into it? There's significant amount of proof of this. Even as recent as 2024. I cant find the same for ROL. Some examples sure, but not as many references as Blackout.
 

But again, the point of bringing that up is older stans are the only ones calling for another ROL. No one else is really asking for it. Agree to disagree.

That has a bit to do with a recency bias, too. But to be fair to Madonna, there wouldn't be a Blackout without her influence. Madonna's works with Mirwais and William Orbit were huge influences on Britney's sound. An artist referencing an album like Blackout that is influenced by Ray of Light is just further proof of Ray of Light's immense impact.

 

And I say that as a proud Madonna hater who didn't even like half of Ray of Light.

41 minutes ago, Sawk said:

I wasn't talking about the reception necessarily, more so the content of the album. Taylor won't have the same problems as Madge did in the 90's because the climate is different and Taylor's fan base is larger so she isn't ever gonna "flop". The attitudes people had towards Madonna and the switch up that happened because of her newfound vocal abilities and religious beliefs were an amazing feat, but Taylor only needs another pre-Reputation hate train that is larger and she might come up with something real quick. Idk, I think people are underestimating Taylor in this thread a lot, even if, yes, Madonna is the riskier artist.

The reception is 99% of what made Ray of Light what it is. Taylor Swift can never have an era like that because she has no history of reinvention nor taking risks and she has never faced unfair bias from the media and general public. 
 

Do I think Taylor can make quality music? Sure. But just about everyone can. That doesn't make it a Ray of Light moment.

[Jay07]

I would love to see artists referencing Blackout as the benchmark of quality and artistic reinvention over Ray of Light. It's not a matter of age, or sales or whatever goalpost you jump to each time. Ray of Light is simply much more accomplished and daring than most mainstream pop albums and that's why it's the one constantly referenced the same way Thriller is the benchmark for sales. Not sure what's not clicking.