Illuminati Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 10 minutes ago, Communion said: And I'm saying this liberal ideal you have is wrong and not working. You feign concern over what social abuses happen when government exerts its force yet 1) can't answer to how such abuses already happen under liberal democracy and 2) that the point and efficacy of a broad, expansive government is in its ability to subjugate businesses forces. Clutching your pearls and inventing specters of the government subjugating powerless people to distract from the need of society to subjugate the figures and forces of business and commerce just epitomizes the problem. The point of referencing China is to be a bit antagonistic - because it shows how easily questions liberalism can't answer appear to have solutions in what America vilifies. Even your doubling-down on not having any answers reverts to the kind of whining liberalism has become known for. "People would have to die!!" lol girl?? They already do! Just the poor ones! You're exemplifying the problem in fear-mongering over "authoritarianism" and the need for liberals to begin to understand much of what they fear as "authoritarianism" is simply the rich not wanting to be controlled by a centralized government force. Reminder, in America, Citizens United stood because unlimited political spending by the rich is based on the principle of "free speech". An effective government would have never allowed for Elon to buy Twitter (our government forced him to go through with buying it). An effective government would not hesitate to stop billionaires from amassing the power they have. An efficient government would not hesitate to strip Musk of his wealth for the greater stability of society. Liberal democracy is clearly an inefficient form of governance. Trump's win itself shows people have little worry over protecting democratic institutions and want radical change to provide stability to their lives. Liberal fear-mongering simply gets in the way for politicians to ride cultural currents they need to. We should, in fact, have Democratic politicians who run on subjugating the rich and playing into the joy common people feel over slamming the hammer down on the swamp of billionaires. "I want a big dictator to lock up billionaires and liberals!" Me: While I agree with your anti billionaire sentiment, your proposed China/Stalin solution has a few critical flaws You: America might finally have the authoritarian turn that you've been dreaming of and you still don't see why that's not something to desire 3 3 2
Breathe On Moi Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 9 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said: Go join your local org and help the people in your immediate era. That's what you do. weren't you one of the…..you know what, doesn't matter, thanks for the tip! 1 1 4
Communion Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 9 minutes ago, Illuminati said: "I want a big dictator to lock up billionaires and liberals!" > *gives clear and tangible examples of how the US government should subjugate, not work for, billionaires, in blocking Elon from buying the largest social media site* >> "STALIN!!!!" Meanwhile the average young person ironically thinks health insurance CEOs should be forced to work breaking up rocks in a gulag and that murdering them is justified. Your trauma is not always someone else's trauma! Bring back authoritarian, left-wing populism! Bring back giving people a real good - worthy! - enemy to hate! Edited 4 hours ago by Communion 4 2
BOOMBAYAH Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago I don't think I'm pro-totalitarianism, but I do feel like we're all biased into thinking that any type of (overt) government or state authoritarianism/action is inherently bad. For example, I wouldn't mind governments overtly threatening billionaires (maybe not their lives, but definitely their assets or freedom) if they step out of line and begin to act against public interest. Imagine if the government stepped in and seriously threatened to seize the assets and capital of billionaires, or even jailed them, when they broke the law or tried to undermine democracy. That's technically how it should work under the law (e.g., for tax evasion, illegal data collection, etc.), but Zuckerberg, Musk, Bezos, and others are still free—and actively donating to politicians and parties—alongside every other CEO and billionaire in America. Neoliberal capitalism, particularly the hyper-American version of it, is inherently unfair, unmeritocratic, unlawful, and enables the rise of an oligarchic ruling class. 2
Gov Hooka Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, Breathe On Moi said: weren't you one of the…..you know what, doesn't matter, thanks for the tip! People who refused to support genocide and recognized that both parties are corporatist trash owned by billionaires? Yes I am and Im gonna guess you don't do **** for people in your local community, but it's never too late to start giving a ****. 2
BoricuaMonster Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago (edited) Let's see how this whole thing turns out. If it does get shut down let's hope it gets open up back soon. Edited 2 hours ago by BoricuaMonster
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted 2 hours ago ATRL Moderator Posted 2 hours ago This is the penultimate conclusion of a system where all major political parties like direct access to billionaires and are disinterested in reigning them in. 1
loveisdead9582 Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 1 hour ago, BOOMBAYAH said: I don't think I'm pro-totalitarianism, but I do feel like we're all biased into thinking that any type of (overt) government or state authoritarianism/action is inherently bad. For example, I wouldn't mind governments overtly threatening billionaires (maybe not their lives, but definitely their assets or freedom) if they step out of line and begin to act against public interest. Imagine if the government stepped in and seriously threatened to seize the assets and capital of billionaires, or even jailed them, when they broke the law or tried to undermine democracy. That's technically how it should work under the law (e.g., for tax evasion, illegal data collection, etc.), but Zuckerberg, Musk, Bezos, and others are still free—and actively donating to politicians and parties—alongside every other CEO and billionaire in America. Neoliberal capitalism, particularly the hyper-American version of it, is inherently unfair, unmeritocratic, unlawful, and enables the rise of an oligarchic ruling class. I actually agree with you on most of what you've said here, but serious question: they have the ability to make life difficult now for these billionaires and don't. What makes you think that would be different if there were to be a shift in government style? Short of completely replacing every single member of the government and higher ranking members of its various agencies, things would likely run as they used to but… worse?
XDNA Posted 36 minutes ago Author Posted 36 minutes ago 2 hours ago, Gov Hooka said: People who refused to support genocide and recognized that both parties are corporatist trash owned by billionaires? Yes I am and Im gonna guess you don't do **** for people in your local community, but it's never too late to start giving a ****. It's so easy to act like this to absolve yourself from any responsibility. However, the US is driven by a two-party system.
Gov Hooka Posted 33 minutes ago Posted 33 minutes ago 1 minute ago, XDNA said: It's so easy to act like this to absolve yourself from any responsibility. However, the US is driven by a two-party system. Oh sweety. This is on your failed party and their total failure of a candidate and all the folks who tried to downplay genocide. The only actors with responsibility are those in power, financed by billionaires, who acted against the interests of their base. And here you are, still making excuses for the system.
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