news Martial Law in South Korea Update: Martial law has just been lifted.

[Vermillion]

 

[AMIT]

On 12/3/2024 at 11:49 AM, Space Cowboy said:

the real problem isn't capitalism or communism, it's human greed and selfishness. Capitalism often leads to exploitation in the name of profit, while communism almost always turns into authoritarianism under the guise of "equality".

 

Any system fails when power and self-interest take over, and that's just human nature 

Capitalism is definitely the problem. I can't believe we still talk about the URSS (and this goes for any other so-called ''communist'' state, past or current) as if was indeed a ''communist'' state like  They might have even thought that they were but luckily in the present we have the benefit of hindsight view and can actually see things in a different, broader perspective. They still had a state, just like the other countries did back then and still do now, which is the actual problem. You cannot have the state without the capitalist system or vice-versa, they are essential to one another. You cannot use the state to ''govern for the people'' because the state's purpose is inherently to create class division and maintain it that way. ''Greediness'' and ''selfishness'' are just terms used to misguide people and hide the truth.

 

Capitalism is authoritarian and hierarchical by nature. If there is wealth concentration then there will be poverty alongside it, that's just how it works. It's basically one huge global pyramid scheme. Money is a zero-sum game. You having more of it means other people having less of it. It doesn't ''often'' leads to exploitation, it always does that without fail because it is inherent to how it funcions.

 

There is no profit without exploitation and there is no capitalism without the profit motive so there is no capitalism without exploitation, period. 

 

The state is authoritarian by nature. It says: I am the best way to do things and there is no alternative. Every state, past or present, operates like this with no exceptions. 

[Space Cowboy]

19 minutes ago, AMIT said:

Capitalism is definitely the problem. I can't believe we still talk about the URSS (and this goes for any other so-called ''communist'' state, past or current) as if was indeed a ''communist'' state like  They might have even thought that they were but luckily in the present we have the benefit of hindsight view and can actually see things in a different, broader perspective. They still had a state, just like the other countries did back then and still do now, which is the actual problem. You cannot have the state without the capitalist system or vice-versa, they are essential to one another. You cannot use the state to ''govern for the people'' because the state's purpose is inherently to create class division and maintain it that way. ''Greediness'' and ''selfishness'' are just terms used to misguide people and hide the truth.

 

Capitalism is authoritarian and hierarchical by nature. If there is wealth concentration then there will be poverty alongside it, that's just how it works. It's basically one huge global pyramid scheme. Money is a zero-sum game. You having more of it means other people having less of it. It doesn't ''often'' leads to exploitation, it always does that without fail because it is inherent to how it funcions.

 

There is no profit without exploitation and there is no capitalism without the profit motive so there is no capitalism without exploitation, period. 

 

The state is authoritarian by nature. It says: I am the best way to do things and there is no alternative. Every state, past or present, operates like this with no exceptions. 

You're evading the core issue: any system, capitalist, socialist, communist, etc fails when people in power act out of self-interest. No system can fully prevent greed or the drive for control, and history proves that even the best ideas can be twisted by those looking to benefit themselves.
 

Capitalism is far from perfect: it has problems like inequality, exploitation, and greed. But it's also brought innovation, better living standards, and opportunities other systems haven't matched.
 

I think we should try to focus on fixing its flaws with better rules, fairness, and accountability. Capitalism might not be the best system, but it's the one we have and it's not going to change 

[AMIT]

4 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

You're evading the core issue: any system, capitalist, socialist, communist, etc fails when people in power act out of self-interest. No system can fully prevent greed or the drive for control, and history proves that even the best ideas can be twisted by those looking to benefit themselves.
 

Capitalism is far from perfect: it has problems like inequality, exploitation, and greed. But it's also brought innovation, better living standards, and opportunities other systems haven't matched.
 

I think we should try to focus on fixing its flaws with better rules, fairness, and accountability. Capitalism might not be the best system, but it's the one we have and it's not going to change 

You are making 0 points, sorry. All you're really saying can be reduced to fallacies like appealing to tradition and confirmation bias. What your first paragrah amounts to is basically: ''there can't be and thus there will never be another economic system for the rest of human history'' which is not only historically innacurate but also just literally absurd. 

 

Calling an extremely exploitative and violent system like Capitalism ''far from perfect'' is a huge understatement and low key shows your hand here. All of those pros you mentioned come with massive downsides like material inequality, climate destruction, wars etc. Not to mention stuff like White Supremacy/Racism, Misogyny, Homophobia, Transphobia, Xenophobia, Ableism etc, or do you think those things are not correlated? Are you gonna argue that those things are okay since we can have iPhones at least (we as in not the people being bombed)? You do know that millions if not billions of people have died because they couldn't get access to things like food and life-saving medicine, right? How many more will have to die for you to maybe consider Capitalism to be a bit worse than ''far from perfect''? 

 

There is no real ''accountability'' when it comes to actual wealth (read: power) concentration. That is literally the point of having wealth/power - to AVOID accountability. The market has never been and will NEVER be ''fair''.  That's also how states work. They claim a territory, force people to pay taxes to them if they want to live in that territory, creates its own rules and laws and again forces everyone to follow them and nothing can be done to counter those things no matter who is in charge because they will never govern for anyone but themselves anyway. At best all we get from it are concessions (after numerous bloodbaths btw), which CAN and HAVE been taken away time and time again.

 

It's your right to think reform is the best path forward, even with so much daming evidence clearly showing you and others in the same mindset are VERY wrong. Having something bad is not better than having nothing at all. 

[truthteller]

On 12/4/2024 at 11:11 AM, VOSS said:

this is crazy

my local tour guide didnt lie when he said almost all presidents of south korea have the same s**** ending 

Edited December 5, 2024 by truthteller

[Space Cowboy]

3 hours ago, AMIT said:

You are making 0 points, sorry. All you're really saying can be reduced to fallacies like appealing to tradition and confirmation bias. What your first paragrah amounts to is basically: ''there can't be and thus there will never be another economic system for the rest of human history'' which is not only historically innacurate but also just literally absurd. 

 

Calling an extremely exploitative and violent system like Capitalism ''far from perfect'' is a huge understatement and low key shows your hand here. All of those pros you mentioned come with massive downsides like material inequality, climate destruction, wars etc. Not to mention stuff like White Supremacy/Racism, Misogyny, Homophobia, Transphobia, Xenophobia, Ableism etc, or do you think those things are not correlated? Are you gonna argue that those things are okay since we can have iPhones at least (we as in not the people being bombed)? You do know that millions if not billions of people have died because they couldn't get access to things like food and life-saving medicine, right? How many more will have to die for you to maybe consider Capitalism to be a bit worse than ''far from perfect''? 

 

There is no real ''accountability'' when it comes to actual wealth (read: power) concentration. That is literally the point of having wealth/power - to AVOID accountability. The market has never been and will NEVER be ''fair''.  That's also how states work. They claim a territory, force people to pay taxes to them if they want to live in that territory, creates its own rules and laws and again forces everyone to follow them and nothing can be done to counter those things no matter who is in charge because they will never govern for anyone but themselves anyway. At best all we get from it are concessions (after numerous bloodbaths btw), which CAN and HAVE been taken away time and time again.

 

It's your right to think reform is the best path forward, even with so much daming evidence clearly showing you and others in the same mindset are VERY wrong. Having something bad is not better than having nothing at all. 

It's so easy to critique something, but where are your solutions? Pointing out capitalism's flaws without offering a viable alternative isn't enough.
 

If the system is so broken, what replaces it? How do we ensure equity and fairness without creating new problems or making society fall into chaos or an authoritarian mess like most communist countries?
 

Critique without action is useless. Real change requires a plan, not just outrage.

[katara]

I admire the integrity of korean people and the parliament.

 

You know if Trump did the same more than half of the country would support it blindly