How did Lemonade become Beyoncé's most unpopular album (outstreamed by ARTPOP)?

[LegaMyth]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:50 PM, Calvin said:

1989 was uploaded even later yet it became the gigantic smash on spotify.

 

You're comparing a Pop-tart album to body of work. 

 

1989 had 3 #1 singles. So, of course, the streams will be higher. Please, do not be slow. 

[swissman]

Let's recap:

• Lemonade has more overall streams than ARTPOP (by ~130 million, and would still have 10 million more streams if ARTPOP's DWUW was still on Spotify)
• ARTPOP has more daily streams than Lemonade (~34 thousand)

and

• Lemonade has been out for 8 years, only 5 of which has it been in Spotify
• ARTPOP has been out for 11 years, all of which it has been on Spotify
• Lemonade has out-streamed ARTPOP with only 45% of ARTPOP's total time on the platform.

 

and this needed a thread...because?

 

 

Edited November 30 by swissman

[swissman]

The answer to the OP's question is easily found in examining what Beyoncé's three least streamed albums aim to do, and what they're centred on...Lemonade, Homecoming and The Gift (all also coming in succession) being albums aimed at discussing, celebrating Blackness and Black art.

 

Their means in which they explore this topic differs greatly from RENAISSANCE and COWBOY CARTER, where the Black art in question is a reclamation of genres pioneered by Black artists that white artists have mainly taken on as their own, ie. genres that are more globally and commercially palatable to listeners who we know (supported by various forms of data) are prejudiced towards white artists/white-associated artforms.

[Giorgoc]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:31 AM, LegaMyth said:

1. Beyoncé has sold MORE albums than Gaga

2. Beyoncé has sold MORE singles than Gaga

3. Beyoncé has MORE streams than Gaga

4. Beyoncé has won MORE awards than Gaga

5. Beyoncé has grossed MORE than Gaga

 

But yet, she's overrated and overhyped???

 

Please, sit your tired a** down and try to think of something else. Lemonade was added to Spotify, 3 years after its release. Stop it!

All those are true, yet still Beyonce is overhyped.

 

If Bread A is better than Bread B, it doesn't mean that me saying Bread A is the best thing to happen in this world is not overhype.

[LegaMyth]

1 hour ago, Giorgoc said:

All those are true, yet still Beyonce is overhyped.

 

If Bread A is better than Bread B, it doesn't mean that me saying Bread A is the best thing to happen in this world is not overhype.

All popular artists are overhyped and that includes many legends. But, you're going after a woman who has been earning #1 singles and #1 albums for 21 years as a solo artist, not including the work she has done with DC. Billboard named Bey the female artist of the 2000s, and Destiny's Child was the top girl-group of the 2000s.  You're going after a woman who has given legendary performances, one after another for 20+ years. You're going after a woman that has outlasted your favorite artist. If Bey and Gaga releases albums the same day, Bey would win that "race", easily. 

[swissman]

2 hours ago, Giorgoc said:

All those are true, yet still Beyonce is overhyped.

 

If Bread A is better than Bread B, it doesn't mean that me saying Bread A is the best thing to happen in this world is not overhype.

to accurately assess if someone is overhyped you need to look at precisely what they're hyped for. it's unfair to say "x doesn't do y therefore x is overhyped" if what they're appreciated for has nothing to do with what one faults them for not doing.

 

what Beyoncé is hyped for is 1) her long, successful career in the pop industry starting with her parallel career with Destiny's Child 2) her high octane, powerful live performances centred around her amazing vocal ability and her charismatic dancing 3) her album excellence and vision 4) her visual albums, and in turn the way she presents her art 5) the way she zigs when the industry zags.

 

None of this is hyped more than deserved. All of it is true and fairly applied to her, and I can't name a single one of her peers that fulfil each of those five areas like she does, thus she's not overhyped, you just don't like her to the same extent that others seem to.

 

One could then ask: does someone hyped for their long, successful career, their performing ability and overall talents, their album output and their singular approach to the industry deserve to highly praised? And the answer would be yes. Because why would all that suggest you shouldn't be? If someone else is under-hyped, that has no bearing on Beyoncé, that's another issue entirely. There can be more than one person that is highly regarded.

 

 

Edited November 30 by swissman

[swissman]

54 minutes ago, LegaMyth said:

All popular artists are overhyped and that includes many legends. But, you're going after a woman who has been earning #1 singles and #1 albums for 21 years as a solo artist, not including the work she has done with DC. Billboard named Bey the female artist of the 2000s, and Destiny's Child was the top girl-group of the 2000s.  You're going after a woman who has given legendary performances, one after another for 20+ years. You're going after a woman that has outlasted your favorite artist. If Bey and Gaga releases albums the same day, Bey would win that "race", easily. 

that's the thing...everyone can be overhyped when you reach for ways to discredit them. if you actually examine the reasons they're loved, the idea of them being overhyped becomes pointless.

 

like one could argue Diana Ross or Madonna aren't that great at singing and compare them to legends of less notoriety like Patti LaBelle or Chaka Khan or Debbie Harry or those with even less name recognition. But if the reason Madonna and Diana are so hyped and loved has nothing to do with how good or bad of a singer one thinks they are, then that criteria is pointless. They're DIANA ROSS and MADONNA for many reasons and not one of them is undeserved or untrue.

 

anyway I'm sorta saying the same as I did above but I find this logic people have when they go about using terms like "over-hyped" or "overrated" to be incredibly short-sighted and only stated in a way that grasps at a point against someone they dislike.

 

 

Edited November 30 by swissman

[TipToe]

On 11/29/2024 at 1:53 PM, Ger.vaz said:

It was overrated just like her whole career. But when you say it they use the Race card or the "impact" card

So whenever an alberm with critical acclaim upon release don't have long legs on charts that means it is "overrated"? If that's the main cryteria for quality then we can dismantle professional voting at the Grammys for example, just give the awards based on charts longevity data! So much simpler.

[Mezik]

I don't know how, because 'Lemonade' is her second best album behind 'Renaissance'. 

 

Perhaps it could be that 'BEYONCE' was a moment and had a formal hit with Drunk in Love, 'Renaissance' had two massive hits, and 'Cowboy Carter is still fresh.

 

Her first three albums are classics loaded with hits, and '4' fits a very niche hold where those who appreciate her more traditional R&B work will strive towards.

 

Regardless 'Lemonade' shouldn't be last.. especially with 'Daddy Lessons' and 'All Night'.  

[theweekend]

I don't know what's more shocking Artpop outstreaming lemonade daily or outstreaming cowboy carter overall

[HANZ94]

On 11/29/2024 at 8:51 AM, BabyBenzz said:

Beyoncé is as frontloaded as they come, people pretend to love her so much without actually listening to her music apart from the release week. Lemonade aged like milk and was never that good to begin with overall. It has some amazing songs but overall BEYONCÉ is way better. I mean, look at Cowboy Carter, huge debut and 6 months and no one listens to it anymore. 

Bingo 

[Giorgoc]

14 hours ago, swissman said:

to accurately assess if someone is overhyped you need to look at precisely what they're hyped for. it's unfair to say "x doesn't do y therefore x is overhyped" if what they're appreciated for has nothing to do with what one faults them for not doing.

 

what Beyoncé is hyped for is 1) her long, successful career in the pop industry starting with her parallel career with Destiny's Child 2) her high octane, powerful live performances centred around her amazing vocal ability and her charismatic dancing 3) her album excellence and vision 4) her visual albums, and in turn the way she presents her art 5) the way she zigs when the industry zags.

 

None of this is hyped more than deserved. All of it is true and fairly applied to her, and I can't name a single one of her peers that fulfil each of those five areas like she does, thus she's not overhyped, you just don't like her to the same extent that others seem to.

 

One could then ask: does someone hyped for their long, successful career, their performing ability and overall talents, their album output and their singular approach to the industry deserve to highly praised? And the answer would be yes. Because why would all that suggest you shouldn't be? If someone else is under-hyped, that has no bearing on Beyoncé, that's another issue entirely. There can be more than one person that is highly regarded.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe Beyonce is the single most talented performer out there. Her voice and showmanship is unmatched. Now, I really don't like her music past "4" but that's my issue, not hers. The reason I say she's overhyped (or was?) is because right after the ST era the media treated her like an actual goddess. I get singing her praises because she's withstood the test of time in the industry in a way none of her peers managed to without ever sacrificing quality but the media really did the most imo, at least back then.

[Giorgoc]

15 hours ago, LegaMyth said:

All popular artists are overhyped and that includes many legends. But, you're going after a woman who has been earning #1 singles and #1 albums for 21 years as a solo artist, not including the work she has done with DC. Billboard named Bey the female artist of the 2000s, and Destiny's Child was the top girl-group of the 2000s.  You're going after a woman who has given legendary performances, one after another for 20+ years. You're going after a woman that has outlasted your favorite artist. If Bey and Gaga releases albums the same day, Bey would win that "race", easily. 

Never went against her. I may not stream her music but I appreciate her immense talent and she and Gaga are imo the only artists that deserve to be on top. Beyonce even more than Gaga actually, because while Gaga is my fave she's still messy with her output while Beyonce's output and vision is always polished and well executed. I simply do believe that the media has been overhyping her or at least did so in the past.

[Dante]

beyonce's releases are often frontloaded

[Draper.]

13 hours ago, theweekend said:

I don't know what's more shocking Artpop outstreaming lemonade daily or outstreaming cowboy carter overall

? Artpop is not outstreaming any Beyoncé studio album overall.

[WildHeart]

On 11/28/2024 at 6:56 AM, 45seconds said:

She's in the top ten most streamed women on Spotify of all time. 

She was only the 86th most streamed artist yesterday. Below Queen and barely above names like Elton John, The Beatles and Michael Jackson 

[swissman]

5 hours ago, Giorgoc said:

Don't get me wrong, I believe Beyonce is the single most talented performer out there. Her voice and showmanship is unmatched. Now, I really don't like her music past "4" but that's my issue, not hers. The reason I say she's overhyped (or was?) is because right after the ST era the media treated her like an actual goddess. I get singing her praises because she's withstood the test of time in the industry in a way none of her peers managed to without ever sacrificing quality but the media really did the most imo, at least back then.

So then it sounds like it's more of an emotional response to the fact that she's being so hyped, than an actual merit-based assessment of the hype relative to her skill, achievements, position, etc.

 

You're absolutely right that post-2013 the media suddenly saw her as a living-legend, and began treating her accordingly, her name becoming a metonym for excellence and because of the limited access she gave alongside the surprise-releasing she kept doing, this made the awe increase.

 

However nothing about that that is undeserved or over-stated. Lots of artists get hyped by the media, but few have had this kind of reverence even for a brief moment and that's because few embody or achieved what is needed to have it. The hype surrounding her is mainly due to the fact that (twice in under 3 years) she surprise released game-changing, objectively excellent visual albums (something no one else was doing until she brought it forward, and certainly no one else has done as well) both which pushed the industry and/or culture forward alongside acclaimed and shocking and/or artistic performances. With Homecoming she underlined her status completely combining surprise, excellence and messaging. So all in all, she may be VERY hyped, but if no one else doing what she's hyped for, it seems like a correct amount of hype for her.

[swissman]

1 hour ago, WildHeart said:

She was only the 86th most streamed artist yesterday. Below Queen and barely above names like Elton John, The Beatles and Michael Jackson 

Okay but the person you quoted said women and you've mentioned all men, while saying she's above male legends with celebrated discographies in their own right.

 

And let's not act like male artists don't get more streams on average than female ones.

 

Currently 78% of Spotify's Top 100 most streamed artists are men.

[swissman]

17 hours ago, Mezik said:

I don't know how, because 'Lemonade' is her second best album behind 'Renaissance'. 

 

Perhaps it could be that 'BEYONCE' was a moment and had a formal hit with Drunk in Love, 'Renaissance' had two massive hits, and 'Cowboy Carter is still fresh.

 

Her first three albums are classics loaded with hits, and '4' fits a very niche hold where those who appreciate her more traditional R&B work will strive towards.

 

Regardless 'Lemonade' shouldn't be last.. especially with 'Daddy Lessons' and 'All Night'.  

It's exactly this.

 

Streaming generally is maintained by hits. Lemonade, while brilliant, had one that barely snuck into the Top Ten. Had she released it for sale, to radio and to streaming for the first three months of its release, and uploaded its video publicly, it probably would have landed at least one week at #1 (maybe more) and certainly several weeks within the Top Ten, allowing it to reach more people, have more notoriety and thus more impact later on streaming.

 

However, not doing this and then not promoting the second (or any subsequent) single hindered the teeth the album needed to sink into listeners in order to make its streams more consistent in the long-run.

 

Add to this the fact that for 3 years, Lemonade wasn't even on Spotify, thereby further limiting the connection people had to possible hits like Formation (and Sorry) such that they would think to return to them 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 years later means that while Formation may be iconic and well know in its own right, it's more of a hit specific within the Lemonade album than one that is or was consumed second-hand by the GP on radios, in grocery stores, etc. which would add to its impact on streaming platforms like Spotify.

[Dante Silva]

"How did Lemonade become Beyoncé's most unpopular album (outstreamed by ARTPOP)?"

Beyoncé originally came to the mainstream and presented herself as a mainstream artist. She played the game until her fourth album era was complete.

 

Her change in direction beyond that point means she lost an entire demographic and those who stayed were those who have an appreciation for the hardcore forms of music of black origin that she created and marketed from that point forth.

 

I believe that from her fifth studio album onwards, Beyoncé has made less commercial music that no longer appeals to the palate of the masses.

 

Should people therefore infer (by default) that the masses are racist because they were not raised with music of black origin or socially conditioned by music of black origin during infancy and therefore have no capacity to appreciate it in adulthood?

 

Streaming is a very honest metric in direct terms of what people tap on to play - those taps on the 'play' button collectively represent a visceral need by society to listen to a specific style of music that satisfies an emotional need in them.

 

Beyoncé's streaming figures are merely a reflection of the proportion of society who can relate to which tracks/ albums in her back catalogue (and which they can't).

 

Nobody wants to focus on her most streamed album or talk about why it is her most streamed album. That album (her third) has become almost shameful and taboo to openly discuss yet it is the album that privately when people are at home, they choose to play most often (over a decade after its release).

What does this say about Beyoncé's streaming metrics?

 

I'd say it clearly indicates there is a gap in the market for a future Beyoncé record that wholly embraces the mainstream to bring the alienated and lost demographics she once had in the palm of her hand back on board.

 

I believe her two most recent albums were an attempt to do that but they were too retro in presentation and tone and only reinforce that the masses want contemporary R&B jams from Beyoncé which she is simply not serving.

 

Why should she serve contemporary R&B jams as she once did on her first four records?
 

Many argue Beyoncé's fifth album onwards represent artistic growth and it would be false and artificial for Beyoncé to re-embrace the non retro, commercial music forms she abandoned after her fourth record.

 

She doesn't have to, if she's happy to continue gravitating towards becoming a 'niche' artist then that's fine.
 

However, If she wants to re-embrace the mainstream and get (primarily) white audiences back on board again then she is going to have to serve a collection of commercial and contemporary R&B jams.

 

To not realize this is to be pretentious. 

 

I was kind of shocked SNL got away with this sketch (at the time), I guess the reason they did is because despite being politically incorrect, it is true and it is funny:

 

 

 

[RobynYoBank]

Yikes the GP really said burn it with fire

[Mr. Mendes]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:54 PM, Blade Runner said:

She's just endless PR. Her stats are pathetic. 

 

Like how is the whole of RENAISSANCE being outsreamed by Poker Face? 

I just don't see how someone who is selling out stadiums worldwide and is in the top 10 most streamed female artists of all time can be reduced down to just PR

[Harsh2256]

Mind you: one of them had a 3 year headstart and was released during the digital sales peak. Other wasn't released on the most dominating streaming platform during its peak

 

Artpop: 5,176,000

 

Lemonade: 6,972,000

 

Enjoy this one little ki I guess 

[Darkgalord]

The essays and meltdowns.. 

[Gaia]

CC is already down to only barely 1M streams a DAY? what the actual f