FOCK Posted November 28 Posted November 28 2 hours ago, Bad_vocal_technique said: Is Drake in the spectrum? Certainly 10
45seconds Posted November 28 Posted November 28 On 11/27/2024 at 5:58 AM, Parachutes said: Does anyone know if there's precedent for song lyrics being ruled as being defamatory before? If not maybe that could be interesting legally. Like even though in this case it's obvious who NLU is about, a song could in theory still be about something else, or be inspired by a blend of things, or be made up. So insisting that it's defamatory seems to insist that the song (or art, generally) must have a specific meaning, which feels like if could be limiting for artists in the future. Reminds me of how in some cases prosecutors are starting to use rap lyrics as evidence for a rapper's wrongdoing, which could be a slippery slope. (That's assuming the case gets anywhere…..as if Drake himself didn't say inflammatory and unsubstantiated things about Kendrick on songs also under UMG) Nicki said that you could f*ck Meghan raw for a verse in Big Foot. Like she literally called her name. That was defamatory and libel and could you imagine if Meg went to court over that? Could you imagine if rappers went to court over rap lyrics? Eminem said all kinds of things about Mariah. It would crash the entire genre. 3
ATRL Moderator Samson Posted November 29 ATRL Moderator Posted November 29 On 11/27/2024 at 3:16 PM, Just a Gay on ATRL said: He was already on the decline after Scorpion because you could hear in his musical output that he'd gotten exceedingly lazy and cocky. But he completely fell off a cliff this year after Kendrick pushed him. Then Kendrick kept jumping on top of corpse. This move is like a dead corpse waking up momentarily to push the murder weapon in even farther one last time. This is true! I keep seeing tweets finally discussing this including this one from Audiomack co-founder Brian Zisook: While I'm happy that the discussion is finally happening, I can't help but be annoyed that it took Kendrick (or anybody) humiliating Drake at the highest degree to start it. Every other time that people have tried to hold this discussion, it's been immediately shut down with "Oh but he got X million streams and Y number of #1s so you're just jealous" from both Drake stans and casual fans alike. It's weird, because while everyone (including Drake himself) noticed it, we were still "forbidden" from discussing it seriously because "you mad that he outsold ya faves xD". Meanwhile it's been acceptable to discuss artists' commercial decline in basically every other case in hip-hop. Very happy to talk about it, annoyed at the fact that the most extreme circumstances were necessary to finally talk about it lol 5 1
Cbreezy Posted November 29 Posted November 29 5 hours ago, Samson said: This is true! I keep seeing tweets finally discussing this including this one from Audiomack co-founder Brian Zisook: While I'm happy that the discussion is finally happening, I can't help but be annoyed that it took Kendrick (or anybody) humiliating Drake at the highest degree to start it. Every other time that people have tried to hold this discussion, it's been immediately shut down with "Oh but he got X million streams and Y number of #1s so you're just jealous" from both Drake stans and casual fans alike. It's weird, because while everyone (including Drake himself) noticed it, we were still "forbidden" from discussing it seriously because "you mad that he outsold ya faves xD". Meanwhile it's been acceptable to discuss artists' commercial decline in basically every other case in hip-hop. Very happy to talk about it, annoyed at the fact that the most extreme circumstances were necessary to finally talk about it lol THIS, THIS, & THIS! You very amazingly summarised an issue I've long had with stan culture. I literally love stan culture and am very much in and of it. Hell, here I am writing this on ATRL lol. However, I'm increasingly finding it hard to clap along at certain comeuppances because it reeks of ingenuity for the simply fact that many of us having been screaming this same thing at the top of our lungs for the longest…but it only seems to matter once something "big", dramatic, and/or popularity-shifting occurs. Something big enough for the masses at large to start saying the same thing in chorus. Only THEN is when the think-pieces start to pour in, the cancellations occur, and retroactive assessment about the same people we were eating on up begins. Drake obviously comes to mind, but so too does the likes of Justin Timberlake. The same stans and publications who insisted on shoving his everything down everyone's throats have decided en masse that he is now no longer cool and has "always" been problematic. I'm a Janet fan and a POC, so his ways and culture vulture antics aren't new to me and are something I know many have been flagging for the longest. But it's not until that "sea change" that the people switched sides and pretend they weren't eating out of him palm up until Man of the Woods?! It's so bogus, bizarre, and reeks of herd mentality. Like, where is the independent critical thinking, logic, and evaluative skills that we ALL have to apply to every other aspect of our real lives?! And it's probably why the acts themselves sit there stunned come their draggings…because no one gave them the truth to begin with. It all serves to uphold my long-held belief that people consume music/artists no different to how they consume film and fiction: like characters. There are "goodies" and "heroes" who are cheered and there are "baddies" who are jeered and booed. Occasionally, there will be polarizing / grey area characters who get equal amounts of both or cultivate cult-like support regardless of how troubling their behavior is (eg Kanye). Anyway, one thing I'll say about this Drake thing is that the unhinged / unpredictability of this all does make for an admittedly riveting watch. Him now randomly touring Australia and New Zealand is interesting. It's giving: "lemme be as far away from everything for a min, make some quick money in a distant market that is moreso just happy to see me…while the legal chaos plays out". I wonder if that will be his sustain self plan. As there is no way, at least in the immediate, that he even has an infrastructure to release charting music, 1 1
JBJT2786 Posted November 29 Posted November 29 1 hour ago, Cbreezy said: THIS, THIS, & THIS! You very amazingly summarised an issue I've long had with stan culture. I literally love stan culture and am very much in and of it. Hell, here I am writing this on ATRL lol. However, I'm increasingly finding it hard to clap along at certain comeuppances because it reeks of ingenuity for the simply fact that many of us having been screaming this same thing at the top of our lungs for the longest…but it only seems to matter once something "big", dramatic, and/or popularity-shifting occurs. Something big enough for the masses at large to start saying the same thing in chorus. Only THEN is when the think-pieces start to pour in, the cancellations occur, and retroactive assessment about the same people we were eating on up begins. Drake obviously comes to mind, but so too does the likes of Justin Timberlake. The same stans and publications who insisted on shoving his everything down everyone's throats have decided en masse that he is now no longer cool and has "always" been problematic. I'm a Janet fan and a POC, so his ways and culture vulture antics aren't new to me and are something I know many have been flagging for the longest. But it's not until that "sea change" that the people switched sides and pretend they weren't eating out of him palm up until Man of the Woods?! It's so bogus, bizarre, and reeks of herd mentality. Like, where is the independent critical thinking, logic, and evaluative skills that we ALL have to apply to every other aspect of our real lives?! And it's probably why the acts themselves sit there stunned come their draggings…because no one gave them the truth to begin with. It all serves to uphold my long-held belief that people consume music/artists no different to how they consume film and fiction: like characters. There are "goodies" and "heroes" who are cheered and there are "baddies" who are jeered and booed. Occasionally, there will be polarizing / grey area characters who get equal amounts of both or cultivate cult-like support regardless of how troubling their behavior is (eg Kanye). Anyway, one thing I'll say about this Drake thing is that the unhinged / unpredictability of this all does make for an admittedly riveting watch. Him now randomly touring Australia and New Zealand is interesting. It's giving: "lemme be as far away from everything for a min, make some quick money in a distant market that is moreso just happy to see me…while the legal chaos plays out". I wonder if that will be his sustain self plan. As there is no way, at least in the immediate, that he even has an infrastructure to release charting music, Agreed the problem is no one cares until there's a significant decline in quality. JTs example was cuz he couldn't match his quality of FutureSex/LoveSounds. I'll say the decline really started during 20/20 experience. Pt 1 was great and showed while not at his heights he still had it...then he released pt.2....then don't stop the feeling. Then Man of the Woods. Again if the quality was there, they wouldn't care but it fell off a cliff. As much as I'm not a fan of his anymore I can tell the recent albums had more life in it but he dug his grave already. I see this happening with Drake now but on a longer stretch cuz he didn't have major controversy before this ( even the kid reveal wasn't a big deal). Though personally I think "If you reading this, it's too late" was the last time he REALLY tried, I think cracks started to show around Scorpion. CLB really confirmed it which is why he's doing all these collab albums. At the end of the day, the public only cares if there's a significant sign of weakness and laziness in the work. And it only takes one moment to bring everything down instead of the natural decline. Kendrick basically expedited it. I honestly believe Drake was on the way out before this anyway ( I could've seen him just doing 50-100k first week in 6-7 years). Now? It gonna funny when he releases his next and it bombs. 4
Cbreezy Posted November 29 Posted November 29 1 hour ago, JBJT2786 said: Agreed the problem is no one cares until there's a significant decline in quality. JTs example was cuz he couldn't match his quality of FutureSex/LoveSounds. I'll say the decline really started during 20/20 experience. Pt 1 was great and showed while not at his heights he still had it...then he released pt.2....then don't stop the feeling. Then Man of the Woods. Again if the quality was there, they wouldn't care but it fell off a cliff. As much as I'm not a fan of his anymore I can tell the recent albums had more life in it but he dug his grave already. I see this happening with Drake now but on a longer stretch cuz he didn't have major controversy before this ( even the kid reveal wasn't a big deal). Though personally I think "If you reading this, it's too late" was the last time he REALLY tried, I think cracks started to show around Scorpion. CLB really confirmed it which is why he's doing all these collab albums. At the end of the day, the public only cares if there's a significant sign of weakness and laziness in the work. And it only takes one moment to begin everything down is instead of the natural decline. I honestly believe Drake was on the way out before this anyway ( I could've seen him just doing 50-100k first week in 6-7 years). Now? It gonna funny when he releases his next and it bombs. I totally agree for the most part. The harsh reality is that people don't care about anything else if they are satisfied with the output. There was definitely a time when Drake's actual "music" was both good and cool and was not just hinged on his popularity. Post Scorpion,I feel his success was more spurred by his popularity as a celebrity. Which is dangerous terrain, because it's not a sustainable model. Like you said about Justin, what's even worse is that it's a coin toss as to whether folk will care again when the quality picks up. Sometimes there's an openness from the GP, other times when it's done it's done (as seems to be the case with JT). Drake isn't even letting himself have that narrative play out organically as he's attacking all the powerful pillars. None of whom are incentivised now to continue upholding his ish. 3
Seeyuh Posted November 29 Posted November 29 1 hour ago, Janet said: Is Drake about to be blacklisted on Spotify etc he will he a bigger kanye. in his own bubble with his fanbase 2
Wicked Posted November 29 Posted November 29 10 hours ago, Samson said: This is true! I keep seeing tweets finally discussing this including this one from Audiomack co-founder Brian Zisook: While I'm happy that the discussion is finally happening, I can't help but be annoyed that it took Kendrick (or anybody) humiliating Drake at the highest degree to start it. Every other time that people have tried to hold this discussion, it's been immediately shut down with "Oh but he got X million streams and Y number of #1s so you're just jealous" from both Drake stans and casual fans alike. It's weird, because while everyone (including Drake himself) noticed it, we were still "forbidden" from discussing it seriously because "you mad that he outsold ya faves xD". Meanwhile it's been acceptable to discuss artists' commercial decline in basically every other case in hip-hop. Very happy to talk about it, annoyed at the fact that the most extreme circumstances were necessary to finally talk about it lol How Drake fans have been treating his music post Views is: -Listening to the album -Saving the songs they like to 'Liked Songs'/'Favorites' -Adding to their playlist -Never listening to the damn album (in full) again He's an example of being out of touch in hip hop and I'm glad people are seeing it... Even his usual trend hopping was far behind than it used to be. Like, Detroit rap is very popular rn for the under 25 crowd of listeners and he hasn't collaborated with any of their rappers. His go to ghostwriter/collaborator to make music for a younger audience is Lil Yachty lol. We see how he dropped 18 songs and none of them did anything for a reason. It'll be interesting to see his first weeks and how they look without the massive label promotion of before. Jay-Z jumped on hot songs and rapper waves during his run too (until 2013 when that was the end of that) but the difference is Jay had given years worth of depth and real classic projects already so when he rode off into the sunset he still had respect. Aubrey's catalog post NWTS is not that, he just doesn't have the range. Jay even lost a highly publicized battle and everyone still respects him (whether they're a fan or not) meanwhile Pusha T did critical damage and Kendrick was the final blow... Dude is a joke to all age groups now except his super stans a rapper has never went out this bad before. But as mentioned his catalog will still do good as it's been doing this year where all his 2024 songs have underperformed in comparison. In the meantime, I put Not Like Us back in my daily commute + work playlists. The irony of him giving that song free promo telling the court it hurt his feelings and brand. 3
Grizzo Posted November 29 Posted November 29 what a weird hill to die on…. he should just take the L and move on…. all these records and sales just to end up looking like a ******* joke to everyone…. that's too bad but he got way too cocky over the last few years and his attacks on Megan were rude and uncalled for the situation reminds me of Nicki when Cardi appeared on the scene, finally someone is putting him in check and he just can't handle it 2
reymiu Posted November 29 Posted November 29 On 11/27/2024 at 4:12 PM, Cbreezy said: In utter shock about the second filing, but I'm somehow not at the same time. Joe Budden (can't believe I'm saying this) has probably hit the nail on the head most and with the most applicable nuance. For someone who had a difficult but feasible path back to "business as usual" with his career, Drake has elected to effectively Samson his ish (tear himself down while trying to bring down the establishment with him). We all joked that he must have been rattled by NLU, but this is next level and really gives a window-peek into fragility/unsettledness of his mind/mental. It's very much giving: had it "his" way and dominated for so long that he literally can't get his head around the tide turning. The fact he is effectively taking down his own career makes it clear that he knows the tactics used to uphold his career (ironically the very tactics he's saying were used to help Kendrick) were going away along with organic public interest. Possibly because of his stalled contract renegotiations with UMG, p*ssing off the higher-ups, and maybe not selling "as" much "as" easily as he once did. Rather than bow out gracefully, which would see him still snatching hits and having the option of making it "seem" like it's on his terms (our pop girl faves do this ALL THE TIME), he's going the explosive route. But like Joe said, it doesn't work because he is not writing the story in isolation. He's making moves that are being judged and dissected by the GP, and dealing irreparable damage to his brand and legacy in real time. Labels are ruthless too. So, I'm so intrigued to see his edit moving forward. I just don't see him bouncing back. The machine is way too powerful and the fact is that no single act is bigger than the machine. Not even the biggest act. The thing is, they won't even do it abruptly (as that would be too obvious and look retaliatory). It will manifest as diminishing streaming support, smaller radio play, fewer festival bookings, which paired with genuine public disinterest sees him start to underperform. This dummy isn't just going at the label (which would make it easy for him to go to another label), he's coming for Spotify, iHeart, etc. The literal next pillars of the industry after the labels themselves. He's effectively blacklisting himself across the board. As said above, he seems to know this and is effectively doing what is done in traditional business: he's essentially actioning a business exit. He's just doing it a) preemptively/abruptly, b) the entirely wrong way, and c) in a manner that there is no backtracking on. It's going to backfire spectacularly. Either in the immediate or the longterm. I predict he'll present himself as a martyr of sorts and his loyalists will eat that on up and probably be all the more rabid because of it. But it won't amount to much (of significance) as the plug of the machine will have been pulled permanently. I'm not even a Hip-Hop head like that-that (R&B lover here). But I have literally never ever seen anything like this. Not from the 90s rappers, not even the Ja Rules/50 Cents, or any of the ladies etc. It's unprecedented in the worst way. It just crosses my mind ... Given that he has been appearing on gaming streaming lately, what if he skips labels and DSPs ? What if he self-releases and/or releases with a non-music streaming partner instead ? (ie Fortnite, TikTok) ? Or if he skips Spotify and releases exclusively on Apple Music as an independent artist ? He must have known the implications of his actions... Since this lawsuit can result in him being blacklisted from the industry (Spotify, iHeart) It's worth keeping an eye on
Saint James Posted November 29 Posted November 29 Drake will not be over until he is fully recognized a sexual predator, even that may not be enough honestly i doubt anything will change
Janet Posted November 29 Posted November 29 2 hours ago, Seeyuh said: he will he a bigger kanye. in his own bubble with his fanbase Honestly I feel like he only has the ride or die south asian boys rooting for him at this point dd
JBJT2786 Posted November 29 Posted November 29 1 hour ago, Wicked said: How Drake fans have been treating his music post Views is: -Listening to the album -Saving the songs they like to 'Liked Songs'/'Favorites' -Adding to their playlist -Never listening to the damn album (in full) again It's gonna be hilarious when they see GNXs second week streams don't drop that much cuz the album actually has replay value...unlike "the boy". 1
Seeyuh Posted November 29 Posted November 29 27 minutes ago, Janet said: Honestly I feel like he only has the ride or die south asian boys rooting for him at this point dd Her Loss was a hit with casuals. this will never happen again tho
Just a Gay on ATRL Posted November 29 Posted November 29 10 hours ago, StayFrosty said: I, too, am a victim of Drake's spotify spam!! I deserve justice!
ATRL Moderator Samson Posted November 29 ATRL Moderator Posted November 29 3 hours ago, Wicked said: How Drake fans have been treating his music post Views is: -Listening to the album -Saving the songs they like to 'Liked Songs'/'Favorites' -Adding to their playlist -Never listening to the damn album (in full) again He's an example of being out of touch in hip hop and I'm glad people are seeing it... Even his usual trend hopping was far behind than it used to be. Like, Detroit rap is very popular rn for the under 25 crowd of listeners and he hasn't collaborated with any of their rappers. His go to ghostwriter/collaborator to make music for a younger audience is Lil Yachty lol. We see how he dropped 18 songs and none of them did anything for a reason. It'll be interesting to see his first weeks and how they look without the massive label promotion of before. Jay-Z jumped on hot songs and rapper waves during his run too (until 2013 when that was the end of that) but the difference is Jay had given years worth of depth and real classic projects already so when he rode off into the sunset he still had respect. Aubrey's catalog post NWTS is not that, he just doesn't have the range. Jay even lost a highly publicized battle and everyone still respects him (whether they're a fan or not) meanwhile Pusha T did critical damage and Kendrick was the final blow... Dude is a joke to all age groups now except his super stans a rapper has never went out this bad before. But as mentioned his catalog will still do good as it's been doing this year where all his 2024 songs have underperformed in comparison. In the meantime, I put Not Like Us back in my daily commute + work playlists. The irony of him giving that song free promo telling the court it hurt his feelings and brand. And honestly I'm not even sure if Drake's fans even want to listen to the singles from his recent albums like that. The new songs have been burning out like crazy People weren't gonna be talking about "Rich Baby Daddy" five years from release like they did for "One Dance", even before the beef. I am also very interested to see his first weeks from now on. I was interested to see how they'd look like with the public deeming him cringe and For All the Dogs being his lowest first week yet (if you ignore Honestly Nevermind). His albums actively slid down the Billboard 200 in the two months after "Not Like Us" was out. But now that he's actively warring with his label… 7 hours ago, Cbreezy said: THIS, THIS, & THIS! You very amazingly summarised an issue I've long had with stan culture. I literally love stan culture and am very much in and of it. Hell, here I am writing this on ATRL lol. However, I'm increasingly finding it hard to clap along at certain comeuppances because it reeks of ingenuity for the simply fact that many of us having been screaming this same thing at the top of our lungs for the longest…but it only seems to matter once something "big", dramatic, and/or popularity-shifting occurs. Something big enough for the masses at large to start saying the same thing in chorus. Only THEN is when the think-pieces start to pour in, the cancellations occur, and retroactive assessment about the same people we were eating on up begins. Drake obviously comes to mind, but so too does the likes of Justin Timberlake. The same stans and publications who insisted on shoving his everything down everyone's throats have decided en masse that he is now no longer cool and has "always" been problematic. I'm a Janet fan and a POC, so his ways and culture vulture antics aren't new to me and are something I know many have been flagging for the longest. But it's not until that "sea change" that the people switched sides and pretend they weren't eating out of him palm up until Man of the Woods?! It's so bogus, bizarre, and reeks of herd mentality. Like, where is the independent critical thinking, logic, and evaluative skills that we ALL have to apply to every other aspect of our real lives?! And it's probably why the acts themselves sit there stunned come their draggings…because no one gave them the truth to begin with. It all serves to uphold my long-held belief that people consume music/artists no different to how they consume film and fiction: like characters. There are "goodies" and "heroes" who are cheered and there are "baddies" who are jeered and booed. Occasionally, there will be polarizing / grey area characters who get equal amounts of both or cultivate cult-like support regardless of how troubling their behavior is (eg Kanye). Anyway, one thing I'll say about this Drake thing is that the unhinged / unpredictability of this all does make for an admittedly riveting watch. Him now randomly touring Australia and New Zealand is interesting. It's giving: "lemme be as far away from everything for a min, make some quick money in a distant market that is moreso just happy to see me…while the legal chaos plays out". I wonder if that will be his sustain self plan. As there is no way, at least in the immediate, that he even has an infrastructure to release charting music, Ppl only care when it becomes actually unbearable. Everyone already knew that nothing Drake has released after 2015 has matched the quality of If You're Reading This It's Too Late, Nothing Was the Same, and Take Care. Even For All the Dogs, in all its stinkerific glory, still had "Rich Baby Daddy" to please audiences. As long as Drake was just mediocre and not pumping out straight-up trash (it's a difference between mediocre music and sh*t music, lol), he was fine. As JBJT2786 said, what Kendrick did was expedite this decline. JT skated by only because he releases every 4–6 years, so the decline was not as noticeable But it's infuriating nonetheless bc Drake did so much damage to hip-hop culture in the process. Yea he was making bangers but the behind-the-scenes behavior and the fan culture created a rot within hip-hop. Hip-hop was partially a numbers game (at least since the majors started signing rappers in the late 80s and early 90s), but rappers weren't deemed untouchable just because "he has a #1 you don't". MC Hammer's Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em had a diamond certification by 1991 and he was still heavily criticized for being a pop rapper (which only got worse the moment he danced in a Speedo). Numbers mattered only when two rappers were actively beefing, not in everyday discussions. Drake changed this dynamic by making sure they mattered the moment he blew up and it became apparent that he was beginning to outsell his peers. Then his fans followed. And then he became untouchable via those numbers, even when he began to phone in his music. That in turn maintained the hysteria surrounding him for the rest of the 2010s. We're only now exiting it . Took long enough 1 1
Hey Babes Posted November 29 Posted November 29 How is he still considered to be a rapper at this point? 1
sxmescudi Posted November 29 Posted November 29 On 11/25/2024 at 10:59 PM, Spicy Pisces said: k... Spotify should use this in their response
Matchatea Posted November 29 Posted November 29 On 11/28/2024 at 12:43 AM, FOCK said: Certainly He's a lesbian! Tired of people forgetting he came out already!! 2
Wicked Posted November 29 Posted November 29 @Samson @Seeyuh Only took Drake looking like a Hoe for him to "reveal" this lol, we been knew! 2
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