discussion Swiss 'burqa ban' to take effect from 2025

[Mitsouko]

On 11/10/2024 at 3:50 PM, heckinglovato said:

Where do you draw the line of "oppressive" and who draws it? Should the government get to legislate oppression? Why is a face cover oppressive and not a headscarf? And if a headscarf is also oppressive then will Catholic nuns attire also be banned? Or is it only oppressive if it originates from a non-Western culture? 

 

Also how come when Afghanistan/Taliban legislate their "culture" the immediate reaction here is we should bomb them or implement regime change, but when western governments want to legislate their "culture" (a Swiss culture of skiing in ski masks in the Alps but women can't choose to cover their face if they wish), then everyone applauds it? 

 

So many questions! 

If a Catholic or Jewish woman takes off her ski goggles in the Alps no one's gonna say she deserves to die by stoning. Certainly not the Swiss government or her husband or brother. Hope that helps!

[SlowGinFizzzz]

Good. With this ban, Switzerland follows other European countries such as Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, and the Netherlands.

[Scars]

57 minutes ago, EtherealCat said:

 

if you want people to change and integrate how are they going to do that if you take away the possibly limited time they have out of the house?

Valid question, but you'll hardly get a meaningful answer to this here other than responses based on feelings, orientalist perceptions, and/or misconceptions. 

 

Bans on Islamic attire are based on reactionary feelings rather than a true understanding of how to create a bridge for assimilation. First, there are barely any women wearing the burqa outside of Afghanistan, it's heavily unpopular even in Muslim-majority countries. This ban on 'face covering' will mostly affect niqab-wearing women, who are still a minority within a minority group.

 

I'm sure news headlines about a "burqa ban!!!!" will appeal to future potential voters who get wet dreaming about Europe being tough on its Muslim citizens, either because of Islamophobia or a sense of "revenge!!!", as we can see in this thread. But there's nothing really meaningful being achieved here other than further ostracizing an already very small group of women who likely won't abandon what they see as a personal choice that bring them closer to their God, pushing some of them even further to the margins of european society.

 

This will only make it even harder for those of them who may look for jobs and spaces for socialization outside of their mosque. Is that supposed to help on "assimilation"? don't think so.

Edited November 10 by Scars

[Doctor Dick]

49 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

Where do you draw the line of "oppressive" and who draws it? Should the government get to legislate oppression? Why is a face cover oppressive and not a headscarf? And if a headscarf is also oppressive then will Catholic nuns attire also be banned? Or is it only oppressive if it originates from a non-Western culture? 

 

Also how come when Afghanistan/Taliban legislate their "culture" the immediate reaction here is we should bomb them or implement regime change, but when western governments want to legislate their "culture" (a Swiss culture of skiing in ski masks in the Alps but women can't choose to cover their face if they wish), then everyone applauds it? 

 

So many questions! 

Afghanistan just accepted a law where women aren't allowed to speak to other women in public. That's a whole other topic. 

 

But this is not a "head scarf". You're confusing it with what a burqa is: 

[heckinglovato]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Dick said:

Afghanistan just accepted a law where women aren't allowed to speak to other women in public. That's a whole other topic. 

 

But this is not a "head scarf". You're confusing it with what a burqa is: 

I know the difference, I was asking who decides that a burqa/niqab are a level of oppression that should be banned but hijabs are not, and why?

[heckinglovato]

19 minutes ago, Mitsouko said:

If a woman takes off her ski goggles in the alps no one's gonna say she deserves to die by stoning. Certainly not the Swiss government. Hope that helps!

It's the same punishment for women who wear the hijab too, so are you saying the hijab should also be banned? If so, would the head cover ban only apply to Muslims wearing a hijab or would people who wear winter hats also be criminalized?

 

What other aspects of religious scripture do you think the government should pick apart and legislate upon? And does it only apply to Islam or would it also apply to Christians and Jewish people?

 

Also, if stoning women (or domestic violence in general) is what they're afraid of, why not just enforce DV and homicide laws, then problem-solved?

[Anthinos]

Good. Headscarfs are okay but Burqa is definitely too much and misogynistic.

[heckinglovato]

1 hour ago, Vermouth said:

Oh do just f**k right off.

Is this also what you would tell Muslim women who say they want to wear a specific piece of clothing which you disagree with?

[kellebrity98]

10 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

Is this also what you would tell Muslim women who say they want to wear a specific piece of clothing which you disagree with?

i wonder what will be the next clothing they will ban. caps, nose rings on women? give them free choice, if they want to wear it then let them. Europe is definitely going back to the dark ages with sharing homophobic, islamophobic, anti feminist views. 

[TouchinFree]

Well their countries their choice. Also burqas are purely traditional. Hijabs on the other hand is religious. So if they decide in the future (which they will) to ban Hijab then that's islamophobia. And would be a direct excuse to send all muslims back. Which they will. 

 

Instead of all this mocking around. Just have balls and say you dont want muslims or arabs. But also stay out of their business in their own countries. All in all, religious war is inevitable. Any idiot can see it lol.

Edited November 10 by TouchinFree

[heckinglovato]

9 minutes ago, kellebrity98 said:

i wonder what will be the next clothing they will ban. caps, nose rings on women? give them free choice, if they want to wear it then let them. Europe is definitely going back to the dark ages with sharing homophobic, islamophobic, anti feminist views. 

If Qatar decided tomorrow to ban septum piercings because piercings are a sin in Islam, there would be calls here to carpet-bomb Doha tomorrow, get boots on the ground, and implement immediate regime change to save the septum piercing community!

 

White nationalism in the west is rampant even amongst leftist and majority-LGBTQ+ communities 

Edited November 10 by heckinglovato

[shoganai]

They should rather stream Burqa (Demo Leak) by Lady Ga Ga 

[Dumbledore]

The internalized islamophobia in this thread wow, many of you have a lot of anger and a "revenge" sentiment that you think this is somehow liberating women. Let women liberate themselves, don't tell them when and how to liberate, that's oppression too sweaties. And it's very common on first world countries that think they are so much better than the rest of the world that they will tell you to think and act their way and at their own pace, and if you do otherwise you'll be punished and treated as a "beast". How disgusting...

[Dumbledore]

3 minutes ago, heckinglovato said:

White nationalism in the west is rampant even amongst leftist and majority-LGBTQ+ communities

This

[heckinglovato]

1 minute ago, Dumbledore said:

The internalized islamophobia in this thread wow, many of you have a lot of anger and a "revenge" sentiment that you think this is somehow liberating women. Let women liberate themselves, don't tell them when and how to liberate, that's oppression too sweaties. And it's very common on first world countries that think they are so much better than the rest of the world that they will tell you to think and act their way and at their own pace, and if you do otherwise you'll be punished and treated as a "beast". How disgusting...

Also the audacity of European people on this forum having to take a mental health sick leave from work when Trump got elected over Kamala (not a joke btw), then in the same breath praise Trump-esque policies which Kamala would theoretically categorically oppose 

[Dumbledore]

Just now, heckinglovato said:

Also the audacity of European people on this forum having to take a mental health sick leave from work when Trump got elected over Kamala (not a joke btw), then in the same breath praise Trump-esque policies which Kamala would theoretically categorically oppose 

Yes, they are only "open minded", "leftist" or "pro human rights" when it's their rights they are talking about. They cannot be oppressed but they can oppress others because they are the "good ones", the "civilized ones". Freedom for me, oppression for the barbarian Muslims 

[heckinglovato]

Just now, Dumbledore said:

Yes, they are only "open minded", "leftist" or "pro human rights" when it's their rights they are talking about. They cannot be oppressed but they can oppress others because they are the "good ones", the "civilized ones". Freedom for me, oppression for the barbarian Muslims 

Yup, only a white gay guy in Berlin choosing to wear a latex pup furry and snort ketamine in the bathroom is considered freedom, it's never any other form of freedom 

[DevilsRollTheDice]

Pleasantly surprised by the responses in here. Seems like we're finally turning the page on the worst parts of identity politics 

[kellebrity98]

23 minutes ago, TouchinFree said:

Well their countries their choice. 

It's clear that you did not read the article. 51% voted for the burqa ban. Switzerland has a population of 9 million, 2.8 million people voted - which is 31% of the total population - and the difference is only 60 000 VOTES which means that only 16% of the total population who voted for the ban. How is that the country's choice?  

Edited November 10 by kellebrity98

[362]

28 minutes ago, kellebrity98 said:

i wonder what will be the next clothing they will ban. caps, nose rings on women? give them free choice, if they want to wear it then let them. Europe is definitely going back to the dark ages with sharing homophobic, islamophobic, anti feminist views. 

what's anti feminist is defending that barbaric religion

[Dumbledore]

And I'm assuming, now that Switzerland and Europe are soooo feminist, they are gonna ban Corsets too right? They are also a way to oppress women, right? Don't tell women what to do challenge. How about Europe chooses to focus on the unstoppable rise of the far-right on their continent? That would be better instead of making the lives of a minority of women harder. A life that's already hard because they had to immigrate from countries with a lot of problems, many of wich were originated by the world's most powerful nations that are now telling them how to live their lives? It's like they have no escape ffs, let them be my god

[heckinglovato]

3 minutes ago, 362 said:

what's anti feminist is defending that barbaric religion

They taught us in gender studies that telling a woman she can't wear something she wants to wear is anti-feminist, I guess they forgot the caveat that it's actually okay when white politicians do it to Muslim women! 

 

This is proof that when westerners say feminism, they only mean white feminism 

Edited November 10 by heckinglovato

[Communion]

2 hours ago, l3disko said:

Their country their rules.

 

Don't immigrate to a country if you're not willing to assimilate to their culture.

 

2 hours ago, prettyinpink940 said:

 

2 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

Hijabs and Burqas are symbols of female opression and tools to control women.

 

2 hours ago, velocity said:

good. this misogynistic bullshit has no place in europe

 

2 hours ago, PillowCase said:

I love it. The rest of Europe, US and Latin America should follow. 

Leave your barbaric traditions at home where they belong.

 

2 hours ago, Mitsouko said:

To lie and claim that you're nameless, faceless, rightsless, subhuman, enslaved when you are not should be and IS now a crime 

 

2 hours ago, HANZ94 said:

Period 

the rest of Europe and America should do the same 

I better not see y'all being outraged or shocked Trump won, y'all cousins at this point! 

[Communion]

12 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

Pleasantly surprised by the responses in here. Seems like we're finally turning the page on the worst parts of identity politics 

This is... literally arguing that Switzerland has a Christian-white identity as a nation that must be upheld and respected.

 

Genuinely how do you always have such bad takes? ddddd 

Edited November 10 by Communion

[Dumbledore]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I better not see y'all being outraged or shocked Trump won, y'all cousins at this point! 

Then they wonder in confusion why the rest of the world sees Republicans and Democrats as the same thing when they treat the rest of the world the same shi*ty way as if they were inferior "barbarians" or smth lmfao