news Bernie Sanders speaks: Democrats defended the status quo while people demanded change

[Wicked]

I'm not a Bernie stan but as someone who hasn't trusted Dems far as I could throw em, I woulda voted for him over Hilary or Biden.

 

For as much as a lot of people talk about pressuring dems to move left "eventually" Bernie would have actually been a step in that direction... I think @Bloo or @Communion have said this before but leftist, liberal, communist don't have solid definitions to the average American. Bernie was swaying people y'all label right wing like Joe Rogan off policy... 

 

Like, you watched Kamala kiss Cheney ass and said this is the wave? And you surprised voters stayed home?  Yes, America has race and misogyny issues, it's a country built on top of genocide of Native peoples and enslaved Africans. Acknowledging it and refusing to analyze further does no good for anyone. Y'all keep screaming about that when that's the frosting on the cake... there's other layers for evaluation beyond that. Y'all keep talking about racism and misogyny and not how she ran her campaign!! 

 

 

[The7thStranger]

8 hours ago, dawnettakins said:

Plenty of women AND people of color voted for Trump, so they're suddenly racist and misogynistic against themselves??

Yes, absolutely. And racist against others to boot.

 

As for Bernie, he's dead on. But this isn't the sole (or even primary) reason why she lost the election.

Edited November 7 by The7thStranger

[dawnettakins]

1 minute ago, The7thStranger said:

Yes, absolutely. And racist against others to boot.

If that's what you really believe, then you're part of the problem why Dems utterly failed and bombed across the entire country this election. Not helping ****, just further sowing division and dividing everyone up.

 

Instead of listening to Americans including fellow people of color and women alike that they're hurting and are sick of the status quo (so much so they'll even take the chance voting for someone they don't really like), you'd rather rather cry "racism" (sooo easy) and ignore the reality and fundamentals that actually achieve political power - bringing people together and creating a coalition and cross-section of people with economic populism and focusing on class solidarity.

 

2024 has proven identity politics is over. People are sick of being thrown into boxes and being labeled and having to subscribe to categories others impose on them. They just want to get by and have the means to live their life while being able to afford groceries and housing ffs.

 

You ignore these clearly evident truths at your own peril, as does the Democratic party. MLK Jr. himself realized this at the end, when he sought to bring poor and working class people together across racial backgrounds by focusing on class and economic justice instead. Not just black folk.

 

And that was when the powerful got scared because they know what could happen, and hence took action. And we know what took place thereafter... js.

[The7thStranger]

13 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

nstead of listening to Americans including fellow people of color and women alike that they're hurting and are sick of the status quo (so much so they'll even take the chance voting for someone they don't really like), you'd rather rather cry "racism" (sooo easy) and ignore the reality and fundamentals that actually achieve political power - bringing people together and creating a coalition and cross-section of people with economic populism and focusing on class solidarity.

You do realize I'm a person of color, right? With all due respect, please don't lecture me on racism. Downplaying its severity is not the way forward, even if you think it's a cop out. It's very much alive, and yes, people do internalize it. But if you really think that racism and misogyny were not a massive reason why Kamala lost this election, I think that's quite naive. In addition to the out-and-out and most overt racists, there are millions of people who are also affected by racial bias, i.e., people who have been conditioned to distrust people of color inherently without perhaps even realizing it.

 

I'm not saying that the misalignment in the Democratic party isn't a reason as well, but America is an extremely racist and sexist country, and those are just the facts.

 

13 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

If that's what you really believe, then you're part of the problem why Dems utterly failed

Well, I voted for Kamala and don't tend to tell others how to vote, so I don't see how I'm "part of the problem."

 

13 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

You ignore these clearly evident truths at your own peril

Logically speaking, this is a broken thought pattern.

 

13 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

by focusing on class and economic justice instead

Not instead. In addition to.

Edited November 7 by The7thStranger

[cuteboyzay]

I'm not readin' all that but I'm sure he's right lmaooo!!! 

[AlanRickman1946]

1 hour ago, Wicked said:

I'm not a Bernie stan but as someone who hasn't trusted Dems far as I could throw em, I woulda voted for him over Hilary or Biden.

 

For as much as a lot of people talk about pressuring dems to move left "eventually" Bernie would have actually been a step in that direction... I think @Bloo or @Communion have said this before but leftist, liberal, communist don't have solid definitions to the average American. Bernie was swaying people y'all label right wing like Joe Rogan off policy... 

 

Like, you watched Kamala kiss Cheney ass and said this is the wave? And you surprised voters stayed home?  Yes, America has race and misogyny issues, it's a country built on top of genocide of Native peoples and enslaved Africans. Acknowledging it and refusing to analyze further does no good for anyone. Y'all keep screaming about that when that's the frosting on the cake... there's other layers for evaluation beyond that. Y'all keep talking about racism and misogyny and not how she ran her campaign!! 

 

 

Everyone who disagrees is a Russian spy.

[dawnettakins]

7 minutes ago, The7thStranger said:

You do realize I'm a person of color, right? With all due respect, please don't lecture me on racism. Downplaying its severity is not the way forward, even if you think it's a cop out. It's very much alive, and yes, people do internalize it. But if you really think that racism and misogyny were not a massive reason why Kamala lost this election, I think that's quite naive. In addition to the out-and-out and most overt racists, there are millions of people who are also affected by racial bias, i.e., people who have been conditioned to distrust people of color inherently without perhaps even realizing it.

 

I'm not saying that the misalignment in the Democratic party isn't a reason as well, but America is an extremely racist and sexist country, and those are just the facts.

 

Well, I voted for Kamala and don't tend to tell others how to vote, so I don't see how I'm "part of the problem."

 

Logically speaking, this is a broken thought pattern.

 

Not instead. In addition to.

I'm simply referring to the argument that it was all racism and misogyny.

 

Did those things contribute? Certainly, and plenty of people who are racist and misogynistic voted for the man.

 

But it doesn't explain all of them, not even most I'd argue since it was a blowout. All those people of color and women who voted for the guy aren't all racist, misogynistic, or have internalized racism and self-hatred.

 

Maybe some.

 

But for most, they just want to get by and make ends meet, and sought to say **** you to the establishment and our political system since the economy is not working for them. They are sending a wake up call to the country that things drastically need to change.

 

Basing it all down to racism and misogyny (internalized or otherwise) is a gross oversimplification and doesn't explain Trump significantly increasing his vote count. Period. It completely ignores the economic conditions that created this result, and playing the blame game is never going to work but only push people further away from your side.

[The7thStranger]

10 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

I'm simply referring to the argument that it was all racism and misogyny.

To be fair, I never said it was. But for the record, I do think it's the largest fuel source. And its very core, if we strip away all of the branches and get back to the root, sexism and misogyny constitute a large portion of what you'll find in the soil.

11 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

All those people of color and women who voted for the guy aren't all racist, misogynistic, or have internalized racism and self-hatred.

I wholly disagree. From my point of view, a voter who willingly overlooks or attempts to justify the fact that Trump advocates and has committed sexual assault against women, even if that voter themselves is a woman, is a misogynist.

 

12 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

But for most, they just want to get by and make ends meet, and sought to say **** you to the establishment and our political system since the economy is not working for them. They are sending a wake up call to the country that things drastically need to change.

I'm not entirely sure if you mean POC/+ Trump voters or non-POC/+ voters, I agree only in theory. First, cutting off one's nose to spite their face is not the best way of sending that message; it's only going to sow feelings of betrayal and resentment. But be that as it may, if this "**** you to the establishment" was truly their angle, then that also means they decided that the real threat that Trump brings to opressed people everywhere was not enough for them to convince them to act with more foresight. I fail to see how that isn't bigotry.

 

14 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

doesn't explain Trump significantly increasing his vote count.

But neither does your theory. Which, for the record, I do think is one of the ingredients. I just don't see it as the largest factor.

 

15 minutes ago, dawnettakins said:

playing the blame game

Maybe, but to be fair, you've fallen into that trap yourself. I'm not convinced this is going to bring about unity on the progressive side of the fence. I'm not a fortune telling, but I'm not hopeful. At least, I'm not feeling any love in the room at the moment.

[Thesedays]

10 hours ago, on the line said:

Wasn't him pandering to the status quo what got this 83 year old re-elected again?

Honest question: how so?

[Thesedays]

10 hours ago, QueenBeyoncé said:

Let's call it what it is America has a racist and a woman problem! And that's the bottom line! 

Great strategy! Now that we accept the bottom line that the US is racist and sexist (wow, truly groundbreaking analysis! Who knew?), what would suggest we do? Roll over and die?

[Thesedays]

9 hours ago, americanlife said:

Yup he's right. Now did AOC say anything?

Yup, she did! That Kamala was working tirelessly for a ceasefire and was a great progressive candidate. 

[Thesedays]

9 hours ago, on the line said:

We see misogyny in this forum daily. The truth is crystal ******* clear: America is racist and misogynistic 

That's so stupid and the fact so many people here think this is brilliant analysis kind of proves the brain rot among US libs.

 

Like yea beloved, the US is racist and misogynistic. Literally everyone with more than two brain cells is aware of that. Now, besides trying to absolve Kamala's terrible campaign, what are we to do with this obvious as **** information? Push for leftist, anti-racist policies? Support candidates that are outright about systemic unfairness in the capitalistic system? Or are you just planning on dropping the most obvious, stupid, brain dead analysis ("the US is racist". Wow who knew?) with the singular goal of absolving a center-right candidate who, guess what, did not even run on a platform that addressed the fact the US is racist? lol

Edited November 7 by Thesedays

[Thesedays]

9 hours ago, 50thStateofMind said:

she was 100x the candidate trump is...don't blame her for America voting for a complete and utter moron.

Stanning a political candidate that lost every single swing state and suffered the worst Dem defeat in 20 years. No wonder liberals lose so badly if they can't do basic analysis, only celeb worshipping.

 

Yes, Kamala, as a black woman, obviously paid a price for the racism in the US society. At the same time, she also obviously pandered to that racism and white supremacy by rising in the political world as a "tough on crime" AG then a establishment-beloved senator then a political candidate coddled by the donor class and billionaire. The same white supremacy and racism that did harm her campaign to an extent is something she embraced to personally become a very successful woman who is part of the political establishment. On one hand, kudos to her. On the other, ignoring all that so you can celeb worship her and reject any analysis on her failed campaign is extremely dumb. Are you a right-wing infiltrator doing your part to enshrine the right as the de facto working class multiracial party? If you're not, wake the **** up.

Edited November 7 by Thesedays

[Thesedays]

9 hours ago, CroNich said:

People in here saying that race and misogyny weren't a factor because the majority of trump votes came from women and POCs - as if people can't have internalised misogyny, racism and homophobia 

Most people are not saying that. People are saying that there is more to it than just that.  Please, try some reading comprehension before clicking reply.

[Thesedays]

8 hours ago, on the line said:

I want to remind us all that many far left in this forum were cheering for Kamala to be the nominee before Biden dropped out, only to immediately turn on her for not being the candidate of their fantasies when she never made any indicate she was going to push left.

 

I resisted Biden dropping out because I knew this would happen, and those same folks ridiculed me relentlessly. 

 

All to say, what an actual ******* mess that every lefties, far left, center left, progressive, politician, and citizen all contributed to this loss. All of us.

All this mess could be avoided if Biden was simply not forced as a candidate in the first place. Is the left to blame for that?

[Thesedays]

8 hours ago, on the line said:

Oregon rejected a ballot measure to give all Oregon residents a yearly $1600 check funded by higher taxes on corporations making $25 million profit annually.

 

OREGON rejected this. The liberal state where it was legal to smoke fentayl/meth/crack/your pick on the street waving at a police officer.

 

So, no, I do not think this country is ready for that conversation. 

And a bunch of deep red states voted for wage increases, paid sick leaves and other pro-labor measures.

 

Your point is.....?

[Thesedays]

1 hour ago, The7thStranger said:

You do realize I'm a person of color, right? With all due respect, please don't lecture me on racism.

So do you extend this logic to Trump-supporting POCs, boo? You think POCs who voted Trump have to do no reflection on race issues whatsoever since they're POC themselves, right? Guess it's settled then. 

[The7thStranger]

3 minutes ago, Thesedays said:

So do you extend this logic to Trump-supporting POCs, boo? You think POCs who voted Trump have to do no reflection on race issues whatsoever since they're POC themselves, right? Guess it's settled then. 

Given that you've ended your post by jumping to conclusions and writing "Guess it's settled then," it seems you've already made your mind about my position and don't actually want me to give you a response. So I won't.

[GraceRandolph]

10 hours ago, PoisonPill said:

This message has been loud and clear for Democrats and the left since 2016, but it'll never click for them... It's harder to fundamentally change your party and worldview than to throw up their arms and say "Half of American voters (including millions of women and POC) are hateful bigots, there's nothing we can do!"

Even if around half of Americans are irredeemable you still need a candidate who can appeal to the other half and get them to show up to vote. 

[Thesedays]

11 minutes ago, The7thStranger said:

Given that you've ended your post by jumping to conclusions and writing "Guess it's settled then," it seems you've already made your mind about my position and don't actually want me to give you a response. So I won't.

Good cop out lol

[CroNich]

31 minutes ago, Thesedays said:

Most people are not saying that. People are saying that there is more to it than just that.  Please, try some reading comprehension before clicking reply.

lol go off sis

 

the comment I was replying to was arguing that misogyny and racism was not one of the main factors due to number of women and POCs voting trump, and I was pointing out that women and POCs are capable of being misogynistic and racist respectively. Perhaps it's YOU that needs to do some reading comprehension before clicking reply so quickly.

Edited November 7 by CroNich

[The7thStranger]

10 minutes ago, Thesedays said:

Good cop out lol

If you engaged in the discourse in good faith, I'd give you a longer response. Why waste my time doing so for somebody who won't even listen?

[QueenBeyoncé]

Creating more jobs than any other administration while coming out of a pandemic is "abandoning the working class"?? Cut the bullsh*t Dems have created more jobs than Republicans by the millions the economy works better under Dems falls under Republicans these are facts not opinions! 

So let's get this right, the "working class" voted for a person whose going make life worst for them like he did in his first term and then want Dems to clean up the mess 

FYI, When he says "working class" that only applies to yt ppl. Bernie go to hell…

 

 

Trump won because the majority of yt ppl identity with yt supremacy and lations think they're close to whiteness more than considered "POC" 

Edited November 7 by QueenBeyoncé

[Thesedays]

21 minutes ago, The7thStranger said:

If you engaged in the discourse in good faith, I'd give you a longer response. Why waste my time doing so for somebody who won't even listen?

This whole "why waste my time" thing doesn't really work when you keep hitting reply. You are wasting your time anyway but by refusing to actually answer what was asked or actually engage with the point, you are wasting your time with just pure vapidity.

[Komet]

'People wanted change!!' and then they chose somebody who

- was already recently president 

- as a boomer millionare from Manhattan, is a perfect representation of neolib capitalism that's been plaguing america for a long time

- his platform is not to change things by trying something new, but by returning  to some imaginary place in time and  policies that failed (look up McKinely tarrifs)

 

So ok, some who voted for him might not be racist, but they're sure gullible and naive as ****. And indifferent to all the damage his admin is going to cause because 1) they don't think it's gonna happen to them and 2) they don't care if it's hapenning to others.

 

Biden's admin was the most friendly one to the working class and unions in forever. It didn't matter. Harris' proposals included expading medicare, banning price gauging, limiting drug costs, lowering taxes for the low/middle class etc. It didn't matter. 

 

People saw groceries getting more expensive and Biden not magically lowering them back to 2018 prices, and deemed that to be enough for them to be cool with all the objectively horrifying things Republicans want. That might not be racism and misogny, but it's equally terrifying. Not sure what Harris campaing could've done to combat that successfully in hindsight.