discussion Gen Z is conservative. What's your opinion?

[Illyboy]

On 11/6/2024 at 3:22 PM, RunUpDoneUp said:

Normally I'd be pushing the angle that the youth can be saved but idk. They can't read or write or do basic math but wanna complain about women. The loud minority needs to be crushed again, we let them populate their rhetoric on platforms for too long.

 

Freedom of speech should not translate to freedom to misogyny. Too many of them have been able to make millions trashing women and "it's just my religion :)" not support the "lgbt agenda :)"

 

Deplatform them all. I want a zero tolerance policy against anyone pushing those messages under any actual left president. We can't foster this kind of environment ever again.

Wait something just clicked. My country has a left-wing president and I constantly hear he's trying to "remove freedom of press" or "freedom of speech", was I listening to right wing propaganda trying to undermine those zero tolerance policies? I don't pick the channel when watching news at tv during lunch so my dad always gets to put on the equivalent of Fox because the national tv channel is "the Pravda"

[LittleStarmen]

They are chronically online and the only people who they see having success were DEI initiatives, so they only other option is andrew tate

[Vixen Eyes]

On 11/6/2024 at 5:20 AM, Letters From Adi said:

Gen Alpha will save us 

  Reveal hidden contents

I hope 

 

My sister has five kids all born after 2015, I hope they all vote Democrat in 15+ years

[Illyboy]

On 11/6/2024 at 4:16 PM, makeawish said:

i think of everything i've seen about the election so far this might be the stat that's worried me the most 

 

Just wait until you see the gender gap in South Korea:

[hallucinate]

podcast/streamer whatever it's called culture is legit one of the worst things that ever happened to this generation 

[Illyboy]

21 hours ago, DAP said:

It'll get worse as long as no one's basic needs are being met. We condition a man's sense of value/masculinity to his employment and his ability as a family caretaker, yet act surprised when they have identity issues from being paid too little to fulfill said role and all the associated ideas they've been indoctrinated to for all of their lives. Right wing culture war flunkies don't say anything substantive but they don't have to because on a fundamental level, they acknowledge their despair, which many on the left seldom do if ever.

THIS. You took the words right out of my mouth (what I've been trying to say in all the past posts in this thread) and condensed them into a 4 lines post.

[Tropez]

13 minutes ago, hallucinate said:

podcast/streamer whatever it's called culture is legit one of the worst things that ever happened to this generation 

And not teaching kids how to think critically in school, research information to verify accuracy, media literacy? Parents not ensuring their kids are consuming things they shouldn't? Educational systems not doing enough to stop this? 
 

At the end of the day, it was the parents and society that failed. 

[hallucinate]

Just now, Tropez said:

And not teaching kids how to think critically in school, research information to verify accuracy, media literacy? Parents not ensuring their kids are consuming things they shouldn't? Educational systems not doing enough to stop this? 
 

At the end of the day, it was the parents and society that failed. 

well they all play a part in this

[Illyboy]

19 hours ago, Worm said:

You're never going to be able to out-propaganda the propaganda. It's useless to try to educate him on left wing politics, because left wing ideals are usually about acknowledging some very uncomfortable truths about ourselves and our society, and generally opening our eyes to a corrupt and deeply flawed system. Whereas the right wing offers a clear sense of validation and belonging (if you fall within the correct demographics), an easy-to-digest simplification of what are complex and multi-layered real world issues, a (false) easy answer to economic downturn and uncertainty, and an outside entity to blame for any personal failures or societal issues. 

In my opinion your focus should not be about educating but about empathising. Think about the challenges someone his age is facing in the modern world. Think about the underlying psychological needs that are being preyed upon and exploited by right wing propaganda and influencers. Seek to broach difficult conversations with curiosity about his beliefs rather than judgment, and aim to start from a place of validating rather than contradicting his experiences and opinions - because a great many people are becoming susceptible to right wing ideals and rhetoric, and the number has grown far higher than we can convincingly explain away as all being racist, evil, or prejudiced people. 

Rather than trying to out-talk everything he sees online, I think the more effective approach is to use empathy, compassion and understanding to try to identify and heal the vulnerable surfaces that right wing propaganda is currently latching onto in his mind. Whether this is about developing his own sense of self-worth, combatting feelings of insecurity and hopelessness, finding a positive group identity outside of politics, or finding ways to give him a sense of agency in his life through goals and ambitions, you need to attack the thing that makes right wing ideology 'feel right' to him, rather than trying to intellectually persuade him that left wing ideology is more correct or more moral. That's just my 2¢ anyway.

Bumping this because I'm surprised how little reactions it got, you get it right!

When I was in a situation similar to Virgos Groove's brother I was all alone in my room coping with the usual insecurities of being a teenager and nearly all I could find online was right wing spaces and memes and whatnot (throwback to that Hasan clip posted earlier in this thread). The view I had of leftist online (and also offline with the one "far-left" party that was starting to go big in Spain at the time) was that they were a bunch of funky-haired vegans who viewed men as the source of all of the world's evil (i.e. the alt-right took advantage of this alienating by some sectors of feminism and used it against them to make men feel victimised and make them turn to their side and it has worked really well) and etc etc.

The usual reply I would've gotten for speaking those right-wing views I had acquired online IRL was lashing and rejection (idk how to write it but what you mentioned above), instead of trying to empathise to create a climate of discussion that would allow conversation both sides (me and them) just lashed out on one another and that just alienated both of us further. Many of the bigoted views I had were just out of pure ignorance or desinformation. For example, I used to be transphobic until 2022 for not an exact reason really, I had just interiorized those views I had consumed years ago when I was a teen on Instagram and YouTube. I met some friend who happened to be genderfluid and I (emphasis on this part) was willing to ask them and listen what they had to say and their experience etc. and they cleared up many of the doubs and desinformation I had. The alienation pushes people into echo chambers and the pent-up rage makes them want to get the other's side neck rather than actually listen what they have to say. The empathic approach you suggest seems like the right way to handle it IMO.

[americanlife]

They're not conservative, they just don't like the establishment.

[Illyboy]

3 minutes ago, americanlife said:

They're not conservative, they just don't like the establishment.

This. It just so happens that the anti-establishment tent has been squatted by the right wing (though many gen-z also vote "far-left", basically the "extremes" aka everything not establishment). In this election the Democrats were all about... being not Trump? They didn't propose any radical changes to the system so Trump banked in much of the anti-establishment crowd who just wants some change because whatever's going on right now isn't working.

Edited November 7 by Illyboy
forgot to close the parenthesis

[Raphy23]

5 hours ago, shimind said:

I won't. Gays don't even need marriage. Just look at grindr. All they want is szx szx szx 

5.5 years in a monogamous relationship. I have no need or desire to sleep with any other men.

[Illyboy]

2 minutes ago, Raphy23 said:

5.5 years in a monogamous relationship. I have no need or desire to sleep with any other men.

Goals fr fr

[CandleGuy]

21 hours ago, DAP said:

It'll get worse as long as no one's basic needs are being met. We condition a man's sense of value/masculinity to his employment and his ability as a family caretaker, yet act surprised when they have identity issues from being paid too little to fulfill said role and all the associated ideas they've been indoctrinated to for all of their lives. Right wing culture war flunkies don't say anything substantive but they don't have to because on a fundamental level, they acknowledge their despair, which many on the left seldom do if ever.

Well said.

 

They acknowledge their despair but also provide a distorted ideal to follow. Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, etc are in fact wealthy men who sleep with a lot of women. And they promise if the viewer just follows their example, streams their show, buys their products, lives by their code...they too can be wealthy and attract women.

 

All while there are very loud voices on the left shouting that MEN ARE TRASH and WHITE PPL LOL, pushing them further away and making them more prone to bad messaging.

 

 

[Cheers]

On 11/6/2024 at 12:23 PM, Rep2000 said:

Gurl, have you seen the turnout rate of latinos, asian and black men for trump? It's not just white men in this case anymore. It's a systematic issue.

Do you have the graphs?

[Anthinos]

16 minutes ago, CandleGuy said:

Well said.

 

They acknowledge their despair but also provide a distorted ideal to follow. Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, etc are in fact wealthy men who sleep with a lot of women. And they promise if the viewer just follows their example, streams their show, buys their products, lives by their code...they too can be wealthy and attract women.

 

All while there are very loud voices on the left shouting that MEN ARE TRASH and WHITE PPL LOL, pushing them further away and making them more prone to bad messaging.

 

 

I agree with you. I think it's important that progressive men create platforms for men that are specifically about their issues. There are many right-wing podcasts and influencers for men but hardly any from the other direction. I often hear that the left has a problem with masculinity and I can understand that somewhere. There is a progressive community for LGBT+ or women. In my opinion, men's issues are ignored. That has to change.

[Vespertine]

I think there are definitely conservative trends among Gen Z -- especially a wave of sex negativity and rebranding homophobia into new, more polite words -- but it's hard to make any definitive statements based on this election. The truth is that Kamala and the DNC simply could not get their own voters to show up to the polls this time.

 

 I'm already sick of the discourse -- enough of all the "Gen Z is becoming conservative," "LaTiNoS WanNA bE wHiTe sO BaDLy" already! STOP blaming voters and START asking why Kamala could not reach them (the reasons are very obvious imo, but...)

 

NO ONE is owed your vote. Candidates need to work to earn it.

 

Until Democrats (and annoying libs who are stuck on 2011 tumblr politics) figure out why they can't motivate the people who should be their own base, they will keep losing. 

[Europe]

9 minutes ago, Anthinos said:

I agree with you. I think it's important that progressive men create platforms for men that are specifically about their issues. There are many right-wing podcasts and influencers for men but hardly any from the other direction. I often hear that the left has a problem with masculinity and I can understand that somewhere. There is a progressive community for LGBT+ or women. In my opinion, men's issues are ignored. That has to change.

This was already stated very clearly by The Intern in 2015. But the fact is 9 years later "progressive" people have absolutely no interest in addressing's men's issues and that does not seem to change.

[PrettyHurts]

4 minutes ago, Europe said:

This was already stated very clearly by The Intern in 2015. But the fact is 9 years later "progressive" people have absolutely no interest in addressing's men's issues and that does not seem to change.

What are men's issues? 

[Orsay]

Its just funny cause I remember after Trump was first elected gen Z was being heralded by boomers as the "generation of change" with figures like Greta Thunberg and well... they weren't fully wrong, just not the kind of change they'd hoped for 

 

I do think its the internet, everyone feels atomized and siloed into their own rea'ity and ultimately very lonely, and that combined with a current left that isn't particularly friendly to white men or men in general in their rhetoric, is pushing most young men to the right.

[Cain]

9 hours ago, Reginald said:

I'm going to take a moment here to spill my thoughts. 

 

The majority of Gen Z has proven themselves to be lackadaisical wimps with no backbone. They were born into a world of luxury, greed, and comfort. All of the hard-fought rights that the Silent Gen, Boomers (yes, there are good Boomers) X, and Millennials won are squandered on Z, because they were born with silver spoons in their mouths.

These Zs know nothing of strife or hardship, so they see nothing worth defending. 

 

It's sad that Z will end up having less rights than their grandparents, but if you can't be assed to show up and VOTE, everything you love will be stripped away. As a Millennial who grew up on stories of my great grandmother's life in the early 20th century, I was told what it means to live without freedom, respect, and self-governance.

 

I am BEGGING Zs: if you want a world worth living in, you MUST fight for it. 

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. As a zillenial, I'm having a way harder time than my Gen X parents were having when they were my age.

 

They bought their first (three story) house in their late 20s with regular ass jobs, not even great ones. Rn I work a great job, I make way more than the average household does in my country, and the thought of even being able to buy an apartment for myself is unthinkable.

 

Add to that growing up in an increasingly online and isolating society, where irl communities to meet one another and find support are dying off, and mental health deterioration as a result of that is a ww problem, and it's just not true that this gen doesn't know hardship

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, Illyboy said:

Did you forget about Fridays for Future already? 

Sorry we were too busy studying our asses off just to get a degree that will earn us... mininim wage job!!! Yay with that we can barely pay for housing and everyone above (i.e. older) than us doesn't care because they benefit from the system that fucks us over.

Shut up.

Hard to imagine what that movement has become. It's heartbreaking. 

[mxoonlight]

Don't vape kids

[mxoonlight]

1 hour ago, Vespertine said:

I think there are definitely conservative trends among Gen Z -- especially a wave of sex negativity and rebranding homophobia into new, more polite words -- but it's hard to make any definitive statements based on this election. The truth is that Kamala and the DNC simply could not get their own voters to show up to the polls this time.

 

 I'm already sick of the discourse -- enough of all the "Gen Z is becoming conservative," "LaTiNoS WanNA bE wHiTe sO BaDLy" already! STOP blaming voters and START asking why Kamala could not reach them (the reasons are very obvious imo, but...)

 

NO ONE is owed your vote. Candidates need to work to earn it.

 

Until Democrats (and annoying libs who are stuck on 2011 tumblr politics) figure out why they can't motivate the people who should be their own base, they will keep losing. 

these fake centrist ******* typing these kamala/dem eulogies like anyone gives a **** omg

 

they are bigoted there's no reframing regardless of their ineptitude and you already clocked the cultural context in which they arrive, it IS the voters fault  was she supposed to grassroots on 4chan or have a political debate with jake paul? we're supposed to fight yet get ridiculed for being "too woke". Like you just want us to shut the **** up yet can't find a consistent way to say it. They will die ******* stupid.

[mxoonlight]

49 minutes ago, PrettyHurts said:

What are men's issues? 

Not getting a date or not having an identity that isn't surrounded in self-hatred for fear of losing cultural cache.