Erreur2 La Nature Posted November 3 Posted November 3 I am genuinely surprised to see Britney having the most streamed songs considering she's been retired for almost a decade 1
trainsskyscrapers Posted November 3 Posted November 3 1 hour ago, Baegalme said: I mean that's irrelevant considering she needs 50 songwriters it doesn't say nothing about HER artistry 59 posts? Welcome to ATRL. It says everything about her artistry. When your work is making that much money for so many years, you make music because you love it, and you own the master recordings, you can be collaborative, let a large group of Black / young / female / queer / outcast songwriters eat, AND pay homage to your idols via sampling / interpolations. I look at it as she is paying respects and transferring wealth to the underrated Linda Martells, Frankie Beverleys, and Grace Joneses of this world, as well as the Son House, Chi-Lites, Rosetta Tharpe, Donna Summer and Chuck Berry estates. Others write by themselves but never artistically grow, or frequently release microwaved music as if someone is always coming behind them to steal their livelihood because they own nothing. 1 1
Trent W Posted November 3 Posted November 3 2 hours ago, SoundsandSongs said: Honestly it's tragic because pre-Lemonade Beyonce was top 3 most streamed females in 2014-2015 on spotify and 4 at one point was the 3rd most streamed female album on Spotify with self titled also top 10. Her streams stayed stagnant while everyone else increased. A good example of that is Halo, which was the first female pre-2000s song to reach 1 billion but has since fallen behind songs like Hips Lie. Yeah back in the mid 2010s she had one of the most streamed catalogs
Trent W Posted November 3 Posted November 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Baegalme said: Truth is this generation just doesn't listen to her music it's as simple as that, her "sabotaging" herself probably added to it but still The sabotage is insane tho Even with CC, the initial numbers were massive and then she did nothing and the album tanked completely after weeks I don't think the new generation dislikes her music, she scored hits with BMS, Cuff it and THE, the initial interest is there She can't get away with not pushing the eras anymore It used to work with ST and Lemonade But now she can't get away with it anymore Edited November 3 by Trent W
ItsJustMe. Posted November 3 Posted November 3 it seems like britney is becoming more iconic and legendary every year
Aaron Posted November 4 Posted November 4 Texas Hold 'Em Hive was saying it was the Flowers of 2024 when it dropped and randomly was "smashing" for a few weeks.
Soda Pop Queen Posted November 4 Posted November 4 (edited) 12 hours ago, Trent W said: Britney Beyonce needs to do something with her streaming, I think that all those years not being on spotify with her newer albums really set her behind She's arguably the biggest legend in the list and her streaming stats is way lower for her status if Im honest lol this is a bit dramatic. Her streams are just fine. The gap between her total streams and the rest of her peers' totals is rather large. Even Shakira is 5 billion streams behind. The only peers of hers that have outstreamed her discog on Spotify are Eminem and Kanye. Edited November 4 by Soda Pop Queen
swissman Posted November 4 Posted November 4 (edited) 20 hours ago, Baegalme said: I mean that's irrelevant considering she needs 50 songwriters it doesn't say nothing about HER artistry And yet... it does. Who is leading those "50 songwriters"? How do you take the work of "50 songwriters" and then suddenly come up with an album as concise, coherent and cohesive as Lemonade? Have you ever worked on a group project in school? Was it easy is to come to an agreement, to rely on each member to perform to the same standards, to be motivated or motivate others, to do productive and correct work that everyone agreed on? You at least need a leader, someone with a clear and unyielding vision to put everything together and make it something transcending the expectations of the project, not just great, not just good. Furthermore, and here is the most important part: Would you say that artists like Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Tina Turner, Tony Bennett, Judy Garland and so many more who have not written a single song or have written very few...either have no artistry or their albums don't show their artistry? Because please listen to an Ella Fitzgerald Songbook album where she sings no song that is self-written, only songs that have been sung before by other people, and tell me you cannot gleam HER artistry by listening to it. If a Beyoncé album is given a certain review and she co-writes on most songs, she co-produces most songs. she is the vocal producer and she arranges the vocals, and she sings the vocals, there's no way you can say her artistry is not on display. Edited November 4 by swissman 1 1
swissman Posted November 4 Posted November 4 (edited) 14 hours ago, Aaron said: Texas Hold 'Em Hive was saying it was the Flowers of 2024 when it dropped and randomly was "smashing" for a few weeks. I've never heard the Hive claim this, let alone even two people (enough to make Hive [plural] make sense). If we continually hold entire fanbases and the artist themselves to task for the claims of one or two or even a few handfuls of people, well, we're always going to be stuck with stale shade. Edited November 4 by swissman
UnusualBoy Posted November 4 Posted November 4 Britney's numbers are impressive considering she's not released an album in 8 years
Baegalme Posted November 6 Posted November 6 On 11/3/2024 at 10:10 PM, Trent W said: The sabotage is insane tho Even with CC, the initial numbers were massive and then she did nothing and the album tanked completely after weeks I don't think the new generation dislikes her music, she scored hits with BMS, Cuff it and THE, the initial interest is there She can't get away with not pushing the eras anymore It used to work with ST and Lemonade But now she can't get away with it anymore Her albums do well in the beginning because she has a loyal fan base not because the GP truly cares about her music. Her having lil hits on TikTok doesn't mean gen z actually listens to her and it shows her "classics" don't get that much streaming
Baegalme Posted November 6 Posted November 6 On 11/4/2024 at 4:19 PM, swissman said: And yet... it does. Who is leading those "50 songwriters"? How do you take the work of "50 songwriters" and then suddenly come up with an album as concise, coherent and cohesive as Lemonade? Have you ever worked on a group project in school? Was it easy is to come to an agreement, to rely on each member to perform to the same standards, to be motivated or motivate others, to do productive and correct work that everyone agreed on? You at least need a leader, someone with a clear and unyielding vision to put everything together and make it something transcending the expectations of the project, not just great, not just good. Furthermore, and here is the most important part: Would you say that artists like Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Tina Turner, Tony Bennett, Judy Garland and so many more who have not written a single song or have written very few...either have no artistry or their albums don't show their artistry? Because please listen to an Ella Fitzgerald Songbook album where she sings no song that is self-written, only songs that have been sung before by other people, and tell me you cannot gleam HER artistry by listening to it. If a Beyoncé album is given a certain review and she co-writes on most songs, she co-produces most songs. she is the vocal producer and she arranges the vocals, and she sings the vocals, there's no way you can say her artistry is not on display. Yes I would because great albums don't automatically make you a great artist when u need +50 songwriters. an artist truly having a cohesive and amazing album while being a main songwriter and producer on most songs is the most impressive one. Artists such as prince michael Jackson etc We don't have any proof that she truly put everything together by herself and that it was all her idea given that she can't write a single song by herself and she already lied about coming up about some ideas LOL. Co-writing is irrelevant knowing you can just change a word and be part of it. Yall are giving her so much credit while if you put her by herself in the studio she would quickly become one of the most mediocre artists in the music industry
swissman Posted November 6 Posted November 6 (edited) 7 hours ago, Baegalme said: Yes I would because great albums don't automatically make you a great artist when u need +50 songwriters. an artist truly having a cohesive and amazing album while being a main songwriter and producer on most songs is the most impressive one. Artists such as prince michael Jackson etc We don't have any proof that she truly put everything together by herself and that it was all her idea given that she can't write a single song by herself and she already lied about coming up about some ideas LOL. Co-writing is irrelevant knowing you can just change a word and be part of it. Yall are giving her so much credit while if you put her by herself in the studio she would quickly become one of the most mediocre artists in the music industry Let's clear a few things up. GREAT ALBUMS DON'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A GREAT ARTIST If many of the "+50 songwriters" involved praise that artist's vision, talent and work in creating the great album, what then? And if they've been consistently saying the same kinds of things since the 1990s, are they all lying? "SHE CAN'T WRITE A SINGLE SONG BY HERSELF" Beyoncé HAS written "a single song by herself", several times. It's been in her early career, but still, you cannot claim "she can't" if she emphatically has. Jumpin' Jumpin' was meant to be a rap song, and its instrumental mistakenly given to Destiny's Child. With that beat only, Beyoncé wrote the song. The other two co-writers credited on it are its producers who created the beat. Independent Women was written by Beyoncé alone, then Columbia brought in new producers to make it more "pop" and they were given co-writing credit and have stated they let Beyoncé lead the changes that were made to the song in its second iteration, believing in her talents. Furthermore, A Gift From Virgo has only one writing credit, Beyoncé, other than the writer of the instrumental's sample. Now, I know you'll get technical here and say these aren't officially "solo-written" as these producers have writing credits, but if "co-writing is irrelevant knowing you can just change a word and be part of it" then others' small contributions to a final song should not be considered songwriting either when it's Beyoncé who wrote the song first. It can't go both ways. SHE LIED ABOUT COMING UP WITH SOME IDEAS ("LOL") Which ones? You didn't name any so I can but only assume you're talking about the Rob Fusari Bootylicious quote which is misinterpreted each and every time someone tries to use it. Are there any more instances besides when a songwriter was not happy Beyoncé didn't say on Oprah that he gathered a selection of samples, one of which gave Beyoncé her own idea, an idea he stated was her's? WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF THAT SHE TRULY PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER BY HERSELF AND THAT IT WAS ALL HER IDEA "She had pieces of paper glued around the room with different song topics, cause she almost had like a moodboard of what she wanted to go for" "The way she works, she is a writer in herself. And then she pieces together stuff ... That's the process. And it worked because she's overlooking everything, saying "I like this, I like that, this is how this should sound, this is how that should sound." —Lemonade collaborator, MNEK AND AGAIN, Do you really think someone like Ella Fitzgerald who basically never sung songs she wrote is a mediocre artist? Meanwhile she's widely regarded one of the most important, impactful, successful, acclaimed and beloved jazz singers of all time? But sure, she's not an artist because she didn't write her albums. You seem to put the definition of an artist solely on song composition, and not at all on performance, which is at best a limited view of artistry and at worst an ignorant view of artistry. And with Beyoncé we have one of the most gifted and versatile singers of her generation making some of the most advanced and forward-thinking pop-albums of our time that her collaborators state she had a very strict role in creating and yet she uses too many writers and thus isn't an artist after all? LASTLY This little back and forth started under within the topic of her albums being positively reviewed by critics. Whether or not an album has five, 50 or 5,000 writers won't change whether or not an album is good or bad. A terrible song written by one person is still terrible and should get no bonus points for having a limited team. Edited November 6 by swissman 1
Baegalme Posted November 8 Posted November 8 On 11/6/2024 at 6:21 PM, swissman said: Let's clear a few things up. GREAT ALBUMS DON'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A GREAT ARTIST If many of the "+50 songwriters" involved praise that artist's vision, talent and work in creating the great album, what then? And if they've been consistently saying the same kinds of things since the 1990s, are they all lying? "SHE CAN'T WRITE A SINGLE SONG BY HERSELF" Beyoncé HAS written "a single song by herself", several times. It's been in her early career, but still, you cannot claim "she can't" if she emphatically has. Jumpin' Jumpin' was meant to be a rap song, and its instrumental mistakenly given to Destiny's Child. With that beat only, Beyoncé wrote the song. The other two co-writers credited on it are its producers who created the beat. Independent Women was written by Beyoncé alone, then Columbia brought in new producers to make it more "pop" and they were given co-writing credit and have stated they let Beyoncé lead the changes that were made to the song in its second iteration, believing in her talents. Furthermore, A Gift From Virgo has only one writing credit, Beyoncé, other than the writer of the instrumental's sample. Now, I know you'll get technical here and say these aren't officially "solo-written" as these producers have writing credits, but if "co-writing is irrelevant knowing you can just change a word and be part of it" then others' small contributions to a final song should not be considered songwriting either when it's Beyoncé who wrote the song first. It can't go both ways. SHE LIED ABOUT COMING UP WITH SOME IDEAS ("LOL") Which ones? You didn't name any so I can but only assume you're talking about the Rob Fusari Bootylicious quote which is misinterpreted each and every time someone tries to use it. Are there any more instances besides when a songwriter was not happy Beyoncé didn't say on Oprah that he gathered a selection of samples, one of which gave Beyoncé her own idea, an idea he stated was her's? WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF THAT SHE TRULY PUT EVERYTHING TOGETHER BY HERSELF AND THAT IT WAS ALL HER IDEA "She had pieces of paper glued around the room with different song topics, cause she almost had like a moodboard of what she wanted to go for" "The way she works, she is a writer in herself. And then she pieces together stuff ... That's the process. And it worked because she's overlooking everything, saying "I like this, I like that, this is how this should sound, this is how that should sound." —Lemonade collaborator, MNEK AND AGAIN, Do you really think someone like Ella Fitzgerald who basically never sung songs she wrote is a mediocre artist? Meanwhile she's widely regarded one of the most important, impactful, successful, acclaimed and beloved jazz singers of all time? But sure, she's not an artist because she didn't write her albums. You seem to put the definition of an artist solely on song composition, and not at all on performance, which is at best a limited view of artistry and at worst an ignorant view of artistry. And with Beyoncé we have one of the most gifted and versatile singers of her generation making some of the most advanced and forward-thinking pop-albums of our time that her collaborators state she had a very strict role in creating and yet she uses too many writers and thus isn't an artist after all? LASTLY This little back and forth started under within the topic of her albums being positively reviewed by critics. Whether or not an album has five, 50 or 5,000 writers won't change whether or not an album is good or bad. A terrible song written by one person is still terrible and should get no bonus points for having a limited team. Again it's just talking lmao them saying she's involved the **** that means anybody can be involved they sure were more involved than her since they write the lyrics and she just says if she likes it or not lmao . So basically she's never written a song by herself as I said, it can go both ways it's true but for someone who's been in the music industry for +25 years and still doesn't have ONE song that only credits her I'd rather believe this than the "possibility" of the opposite. Of course it's always a misunderstanding for y'all lol even when she claimed she wrote irreplaceable plz Great artists like prince actually write and produce their music they don't only say what they like and how they like it and let others do the work. Yes being an artist means creating and as a musician you should be able to at least write and produce by yourself especially if you've been in music for this long but this kind of talent you either got it or you don't. Being critically acclaimed is becoming irrelevant given that you can pay them for good reviews
Robburro Posted November 8 Posted November 8 On 11/3/2024 at 12:59 PM, Squall said: Playlisting reach: Beyoncé - 631M Shakira - 539M Justin - 386M Britney - 372M Christina - 336M P!nk - 318M JLo - 219M Avril - 173M Avril said NO to payola Vagine the organic legend you are
Robburro Posted November 8 Posted November 8 On 11/3/2024 at 1:38 PM, Badgalbriel said: Yeah, by 2010-11 they were pretty much irrelevant, except for Beyonce. amor tu tentando meter essa sendo que o Goodbye Lullaby é disparado a maior era da Avril no Brasil
swissman Posted November 8 Posted November 8 8 hours ago, Baegalme said: Again it's just talking lmao them saying she's involved the **** that means anybody can be involved they sure were more involved than her since they write the lyrics and she just says if she likes it or not lmao . So basically she's never written a song by herself as I said, it can go both ways it's true but for someone who's been in the music industry for +25 years and still doesn't have ONE song that only credits her I'd rather believe this than the "possibility" of the opposite. Of course it's always a misunderstanding for y'all lol even when she claimed she wrote irreplaceable plz Great artists like prince actually write and produce their music they don't only say what they like and how they like it and let others do the work. Yes being an artist means creating and as a musician you should be able to at least write and produce by yourself especially if you've been in music for this long but this kind of talent you either got it or you don't. Being critically acclaimed is becoming irrelevant given that you can pay them for good reviews What are you talking about? I gave three examples of where Beyoncé wrote a song by herself, two of which were huge hits. By your own logic, when Beyoncé changes a bit she's NOT a writer, thus you MUST accept that when others change a bit on HER self-written songs, that they are not the writers of it either and she has thus "written a song by herself". As for Bootylicious, it's not a misunderstanding on Beyoncé's part, it's a misunderstanding on YOUR part, on the haters' part, on people who hear Rob Fusari say something, don't hear his full quote, and then assume it's about songwriting or coming up with an idea when it's merely credit for short-listing samples. I agree great artists often write and produce their music but they don't ALL have to. You still haven't answered if Ella Fitzgerald should not be considered a great artist because she didn't write her songs. And you're still downplaying and disregarding what Beyoncé does do in order to come up with the opinion that she isn't a great artist. The quote I shared was centred on her involvement with the "50+ writers". Clearly, she is involved. Someone didn't come up with her concept. Someone else is not leading them. This is a skill in itself, as most pop albums with tons of writers are not as thoughtful, dense, cohesive yet sonically varied, etc. as a Beyoncé album. What's the common line? Is it... gasp! Beyoncé? If you want quotes from collaborators saying she wrote the music too, we can get that for you. There's how she wrote the Crazy in Love bridge. There's how she wrote all the Formation verses. There's the fact that she wrote an 11-week #1 hit at the age of 18. You can try all you want to suggest she's not actually an artist but you will fail every time because your criteria is not only limited, but you are using limited information.
Baegalme Posted November 9 Posted November 9 21 hours ago, swissman said: What are you talking about? I gave three examples of where Beyoncé wrote a song by herself, two of which were huge hits. By your own logic, when Beyoncé changes a bit she's NOT a writer, thus you MUST accept that when others change a bit on HER self-written songs, that they are not the writers of it either and she has thus "written a song by herself". As for Bootylicious, it's not a misunderstanding on Beyoncé's part, it's a misunderstanding on YOUR part, on the haters' part, on people who hear Rob Fusari say something, don't hear his full quote, and then assume it's about songwriting or coming up with an idea when it's merely credit for short-listing samples. I agree great artists often write and produce their music but they don't ALL have to. You still haven't answered if Ella Fitzgerald should not be considered a great artist because she didn't write her songs. And you're still downplaying and disregarding what Beyoncé does do in order to come up with the opinion that she isn't a great artist. The quote I shared was centred on her involvement with the "50+ writers". Clearly, she is involved. Someone didn't come up with her concept. Someone else is not leading them. This is a skill in itself, as most pop albums with tons of writers are not as thoughtful, dense, cohesive yet sonically varied, etc. as a Beyoncé album. What's the common line? Is it... gasp! Beyoncé? If you want quotes from collaborators saying she wrote the music too, we can get that for you. There's how she wrote the Crazy in Love bridge. There's how she wrote all the Formation verses. There's the fact that she wrote an 11-week #1 hit at the age of 18. You can try all you want to suggest she's not actually an artist but you will fail every time because your criteria is not only limited, but you are using limited information. That's not believable because to this day she doesn't ONE song that only credits her which is why it's easier to believe that she's the one who only changes a few words. Also you cannot prove she came up with the idea but writing credits are there and factual. Again she can pay as many critics as she wants doesn't change the fact that she can't create by herself which automatically makes an overall mediocre artist.
swissman Posted November 9 Posted November 9 1 hour ago, Baegalme said: That's not believable because to this day she doesn't ONE song that only credits her which is why it's easier to believe that she's the one who only changes a few words. Also you cannot prove she came up with the idea but writing credits are there and factual. Again she can pay as many critics as she wants doesn't change the fact that she can't create by herself which automatically makes an overall mediocre artist. Your hypocrisy is showing. AGAIN and for the last time because this is getting circular and pointless: If Beyoncé changing a word IS NOT writing, then someone changing a word on a song she wrote IS NOT writing either, therefore, songs like Jumpin' Jumpin' (where producers are credited as writers too) or Independent Women (where new writer/producers edited it a bit) should be considered hits written entirely by Beyoncé. And a song like A Gift From Virgo where the only other writing credit comes from an instrumental sample should also be considered self-written. If not, then we can say that if Beyoncé so much as changes one line or a phrase in other instances, she's as much the writer of the song as anyone else. I don't think this way, but if that's how you want it, be consistent, please. LASTLY We have many first-hand accounts detailing how Beyoncé wrote entire bridges, verses, etc. etc. These are much more than "changing a few words". Why do you wish to continually diminish her contributions under the guise of YOUR idea of believability? Writing conspiracy theories about how this isn't believable and that is not able to be proven meanwhile we have direct quotes from her collaborators who were in the room with her? It's silly. If you have to go to such lengths to pretend Beyoncé is a "mediocre" artist then that says more about you than it does Beyoncé, or, maybe it just says her haters need to grasp at anything they can to demean her talents.
Baegalme Posted November 9 Posted November 9 5 hours ago, swissman said: Your hypocrisy is showing. AGAIN and for the last time because this is getting circular and pointless: If Beyoncé changing a word IS NOT writing, then someone changing a word on a song she wrote IS NOT writing either, therefore, songs like Jumpin' Jumpin' (where producers are credited as writers too) or Independent Women (where new writer/producers edited it a bit) should be considered hits written entirely by Beyoncé. And a song like A Gift From Virgo where the only other writing credit comes from an instrumental sample should also be considered self-written. If not, then we can say that if Beyoncé so much as changes one line or a phrase in other instances, she's as much the writer of the song as anyone else. I don't think this way, but if that's how you want it, be consistent, please. LASTLY We have many first-hand accounts detailing how Beyoncé wrote entire bridges, verses, etc. etc. These are much more than "changing a few words". Why do you wish to continually diminish her contributions under the guise of YOUR idea of believability? Writing conspiracy theories about how this isn't believable and that is not able to be proven meanwhile we have direct quotes from her collaborators who were in the room with her? It's silly. If you have to go to such lengths to pretend Beyoncé is a "mediocre" artist then that says more about you than it does Beyoncé, or, maybe it just says her haters need to grasp at anything they can to demean her talents. You're doing too much she isn't a songwriter or a producer since she doesn't have a song that only credits her after +25 years in music Thus she isn't a great artist. My point is factual yours is people saying she's involved. Bye
Lovett Posted November 9 Posted November 9 45 minutes ago, Baegalme said: You're doing too much she isn't a songwriter or a producer since she doesn't have a song that only credits her after +25 years in music Thus she isn't a great artist. My point is factual yours is people saying she's involved. Bye Your point isn't factual, it's ignorance. You've been clocked on your false statements multiple times and you think just repeating them and ignoring facts somehow makes your argument valid. Beyoncé is both a songwriter and producer, that's not an opinion that's a fact. Your ignorance and frustration don't change reality. Sorry hun. 1
swissman Posted November 9 Posted November 9 1 hour ago, Lovett said: Your point isn't factual, it's ignorance. You've been clocked on your false statements multiple times and you think just repeating them and ignoring facts somehow makes your argument valid. Beyoncé is both a songwriter and producer, that's not an opinion that's a fact. Your ignorance and frustration don't change reality. Sorry hun. Thanks! I really didn't want to reply to that nonsense again, and I was debating it when I saw this comment doing it for me. Anyway, I'll go stream Beyoncé's #3 peaking hit, a song she wrote herself: 1
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