Sinister Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, doonerr said: What does that have to do with anything? They will chart as soon as they are out on radio, and they will have a sales advantage towards the other songs, since they were already doing so well without airplay exposure What if the song is never sent to radio??? Which has happened before because a song just picks off by itself and radio latches on
Pepo Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 It doesn't make any sense, it's just supposed to be the chart with the most popular songs
doonerr Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sinister said: What if the song is never sent to radio??? Which has happened before because a song just picks off by itself and radio latches on You're describing a single right now Everyone's problem is when songs chart based on sales and streaming without being available on every traditional platform. Radio can't spin all of Ed Sheeran's album for example so even if they pick two songs simultaneously, they are considered singles Edited June 22, 2017 by doonerr
Thickorita Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Communion said: And in the age of streaming, the public choose the singles. This is literally old people complaining because of a technology gap making their tastes even more irrelevant and wanting everything on the chart to be attached to some CD-single. Again, Ed's songs ALSO charted due to sales alone. 1. Shape Of You 3. Galway Girl 4. Castle On The Hill 7. Perfect14. Supermarket Flowers 17. How Would You Feel? 21. Dive 24. Happier 30. New Man 31. Nancy Mulligan 37. What Do I Know 39. Save Myself 40. Barcelona 42. Bibia Be Ye Ye 50. Hearts Don’t Break Around Here That's the sales-only chart. By this rule, everything bold would have be banned from charting. The #14 most purchased song would be blocked from the chart. So what's the point in the chart then? It literally incentivizes people to not buy songs anymore if their purchases are banned from a chart by arbitrary reasoning. Yeah, but that's only one week. Look at the sales only chart the next week and most of them will have dropped, while streaming adds to their stability. The streams of the album count for the songs, so it's sort of like counting album sales as sales for all tracks. It's a messy territory, but banning all songs is not the solution.
monsterLd Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 The "official" single at the time of the album release should only be included on the chart, really. It's called 'Singles' chart for a reason.. not 'album tracks' chart
Communion Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Thickorita said: Yeah, but that's only one week. Look at the sales only chart the next week and most of them will have dropped, while streaming adds to their stability. The streams of the album count for the songs, so it's sort of like counting album sales as sales for all tracks. It's a messy territory, but banning all songs is not the solution. And? It's still the chart for that week. A singular week chart isn't supposed to represent anything besides that week. This is especially true for the UK where the old formula was to promo, promo, promo, etc. for a high debut which usually fell like a anchor the following weeks. A song charting at #14 cause it was the 14th most popular song in the country and then falling because it is no longer as popular the following week has no inherent negative connotations. It's just data. Charts measure data as accurately as possible. Edited June 22, 2017 by Communion
Fruity Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Communion said: And in the age of streaming, the public choose the singles. This is literally old people complaining because of a technology gap making their tastes even more irrelevant and wanting everything on the chart to be attached to some CD-single. Again, Ed's songs ALSO charted due to sales alone. 1. Shape Of You 3. Galway Girl 4. Castle On The Hill 7. Perfect14. Supermarket Flowers 17. How Would You Feel? 21. Dive 24. Happier 30. New Man 31. Nancy Mulligan 37. What Do I Know 39. Save Myself 40. Barcelona 42. Bibia Be Ye Ye 50. Hearts Don’t Break Around Here That's the sales-only chart. By this rule, everything bold would have be banned from charting. The #14 most purchased song would be blocked from the chart. So what's the point in the chart then? It literally incentivizes people to not buy songs anymore if their purchases are banned from a chart by arbitrary reasoning. People don't buy songs just so they can chart lol. In the real world nobody cares. They buy it because they want the song. The problem is the digital era has blurred the lines between the album and the single. Cherry picking songs on iTunes provides a similar problem to streaming, just less pronounced. This rule was introduced to tackle the flooding of the singles chart during a huge album release week. It is the popularity of the artist's album and their huge fan base that causes this I know it's a complicated issue but singles charts are supposed to be a reflection of the wider UK audience demand, not just one huge fan base.
Sinister Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, doonerr said: You're describing a single right now Everyone's problem is when songs chart based on sales and streaming without being available on every traditional platform. Radio can't spin all of Ed Sheeran's album for example so even if they pick two songs simultaneously, they are considered singles no...it was referring to the post you quoted at what point does a song become a single one person said when it is sent to radio...but some songs have never been officially sent to radio and I don't know if this happens in the UK but in the US...some artist send certain songs to different formats of radio (dual releases) and there are only a few artist who can do what Ed does and it literally only lasted one week
monsterLd Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Communion said: And? It's still the chart for that week. A singular week chart isn't supposed to represent anything besides that week. This is especially true for the UK where the old formula was to promo, promo, promo, etc. for a high debut which usually fell like a anchor the following weeks. A song charting at #14 cause it was the most popular song in the country and then falling because it is no longer as popular the following week has no inherent negative connotations. It's just data. Charts measure data as accurately as possible. I remember Steps talking about in an interview recently how back in the day it was like 6 weeks worth of promo, followed by single release, which then they would celebrate if the 6 weeks of promo paid off by debuting at number 1
Fruity Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Sinister said: What if the song is never sent to radio??? Which has happened before because a song just picks off by itself and radio latches on Then the label can submit it to the UK chart company (OCC) as an official single.
Green Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, igetfilthy said: This is a dumb rule. They should just add airplay and video views to make it harder for album tracks to chart. Not completely limit 3 songs at a time! THIS!!! That's why the Billboard Hot 100 >>>>
Communion Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, Fruity said: People don't buy songs just so they can chart lol. In the real world nobody cares. They buy it because they want the song. The problem is the digital era has blurred the lines between the album and the single. Cherry picking songs on iTunes provides a similar problem to streaming, just less pronounced. This rule was introduced to tackle the flooding of the singles chart during a huge album release week. It is the popularity of the artist's album and their huge fan base that causes this I know it's a complicated issue but singles charts are supposed to be a reflection of the wider UK audience demand, not just one huge fan base. If a fanbase can have the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 14th, etc. most purchased songs of the week, then either the fanbase IS the general public and said artist is ubiquitous to the country's taste, or digital sales are as dead as they can be and should be removed from the formula entirely.
Thickorita Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, Communion said: And? It's still the chart for that week. A singular week chart isn't supposed to represent anything besides that week. This is especially true for the UK where the old formula was to promo, promo, promo, etc. for a high debut which usually fell like a anchor the following weeks. A song charting at #14 cause it was the most popular song in the country and then falling because it is no longer as popular the following week has no inherent negative connotations. It's just data. Charts measure data as accurately as possible. Why did you bold just one part and disregard the rest of my comment? I'm pro-streaming, but your whole argument that the tracks stick around due to sales as well is not true. Yeah, it was high during album release week, but then they freefall on sales. They stick around because of streaming, and streaming the entire album counts as a stream for each individual track. How do we distinguish people streaming the album vs. people streaming the track? I have no idea.
Sinister Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Communion said: And in the age of streaming, the public choose the singles. This is literally old people complaining because of a technology gap making their tastes even more irrelevant and wanting everything on the chart to be attached to some CD-single. Again, Ed's songs ALSO charted due to sales alone. 1. Shape Of You 3. Galway Girl 4. Castle On The Hill 7. Perfect14. Supermarket Flowers 17. How Would You Feel? 21. Dive 24. Happier 30. New Man 31. Nancy Mulligan 37. What Do I Know 39. Save Myself 40. Barcelona 42. Bibia Be Ye Ye 50. Hearts Don’t Break Around Here That's the sales-only chart. By this rule, everything bold would have be banned from charting. The #14 most purchased song would be blocked from the chart. So what's the point in the chart then? It literally incentivizes people to not buy songs anymore if their purchases are banned from a chart by arbitrary reasoning. right ppl must have forgotten that the UK used to be sales only...so either way...Ed would've still taken up a hefty amount of the chart that week once again proving that this was an exception to the norm
DancingShoes Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 If album tracks are streamed or purchased enough that they can appear on the charts, they should to reflect what people are interested in even if it's just based on the popularity of the album.
Sscorpionn Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Not people suggesting adding airplay into the formula. That **** should stay as far away from the charts as possible. It would become very corrupt like US radios. Edited June 22, 2017 by Sscorpionn
Fruity Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Communion said: If a fanbase can have the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 14th, etc. most purchased songs of the week, then either the fanbase IS the general public and said artist is ubiquitous to the country's taste, or digital sales are as dead as they can be and should be removed from the formula entirely. Interesting point but I don't agree. Even people who aren't necessarily a fan of the artist at all listen to an album on release week. That doesn't mean they liked it. I listened to Divide at least twice the entire way through on release week, but I pretty much hated most of the songs. So why am I contributing to those songs charting on the singles chart? I shouldn't lol. They aren't even singles. I was just interested in listening to the album.
Communion Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Thickorita said: Why did you bold just one part and disregard the rest of my comment? I'm pro-streaming, but your whole argument that the tracks stick around due to sales as well is not true. Yeah, it was high during album release week, but then they freefall on sales. They stick around because of streaming, and streaming the entire album counts as a stream for each individual track. How do we distinguish people streaming the album vs. people streaming the track? I have no idea. I never once mentioned sticking around because "sticking around" is not criteria for the chart, thus irrelevant if something should chart. If it free-falls, it free-falls. The reality is that be it purchasing or streaming, certain album tracks are THE most popular songs for the week, regardless of any other week, and to not include them purposely distorts the accuracy of the chart. I brought up the downloads because people said "IT'S PEOPLE STREAMING THE WHOLE ALBUM!!!". And are people buying the entire album track-by-track too? You can't try to psycho-analyze or predict the intention behind a purchase or stream. A purchase is a purchase. A stream is a steam. The chart should track the most popular (ie: purchased combined with streamed) songs in the country. To ban album tracks distorts that. Edited June 22, 2017 by Communion
Communion Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Fruity said: Interesting point but I don't agree. Even people who aren't necessarily a fan of the artist at all listen to an album on release week. That doesn't mean they liked it. I listened to Divide at least twice the entire way through on release week, but I pretty much hated most of the songs. So why am I contributing to those songs charting on the singles chart? I shouldn't lol. They aren't even singles. I was just interested in listening to the album. Again, those were purchases. Not streams. His tracks were still super high off purchases alone. So you're now trying to guess the intentions behind the public's purchases for album tracks? Edited June 22, 2017 by Communion
Sinister Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Sscorpionn said: Not people suggesting adding airplay into the formula. That **** should stay as far away from the charts as possible. It would become very corrupt like US radios. Before streaming was included...the average song spent like one week at #1 in the UK Like 30+ #1s every year Billboard>>>
ATRL Moderator Samson Posted June 22, 2017 ATRL Moderator Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sinister said: Before streaming was included...the average song spent like one week at #1 in the UK Like 30+ #1s every year Billboard>>> not only because of the lack of airplay, because of the stupid six-week promo industry standard that used to go on there songs would get a bunch of sales and then drop like a ****ing BOULDER in the second week. #1s everywhere that most people didn't even give a **** about. I'm so happy that **** is now done away with, especially with the advent of streaming. it was so stupid. but leave it to captain OCC to mess with the charts again Edited June 22, 2017 by Yndda
Fruity Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Communion said: Again, those were purchases. Not streams. His tracks were still super high off purchases alone. So you're not trying to guess the intentions behind the public's purchases for album tracks? Those tracks charted high on the sales chart because people wanted to pay £9 for 9 of the tracks, rather than £14 for the album full of 16 tracks. That is the exact problem that the digital era has caused It is still the album that was popular, it just so happens that the consumer would rather pay less their 9 favourite songs, not that fussed about the remaining 7. Which causes ALL tracks to chart high on the sales chart. That's not the point behind a singles chart.
Thickorita Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Communion said: I never once mentioned sticking around because "sticking around" is not criteria for the chart, thus irrelevant if something should chart. If it free-falls, it free-falls. The reality is that be it purchasing or streaming, certain album tracks are THE most popular songs for the week, regardless of any other week,s and to not include them purposely distorts the accuracy of the chart. I brought up the downloads because people said "IT'S PEOPLE STREAMING THE WHOLE ALBUM!!!". And are people buying the entire album track-by-track too? You can't try to psycho-analyze or predict the intention behind a purchase or stream. A purchase is a purchase. A stream is a steam. The chart should track the most popular (ie: purchased combined with streamed) songs in the country. To ban album tracks distorts that. But under that logic, shouldn't buying the album count as buying all individual tracks, if streaming it counts as streaming all individual tracks? I get that his individual track sales were great first week, but since they fell second week, while the streaming remained consistent with the album sales, it's kind of logical that most people were streaming the entire album? I don't know how to explain it properly, but maybe they should deduct the streams of all album tracks by the streams of the least-streamed album track, if that makes sense.
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