base talk Why Did the UK Stop Being Cool?

[BlazingLovatic]

40 minutes ago, BOOMBAYAH said:

My post was very clear, and others here have expanded on why that's the case (globalization, the UK's image becoming more nuanced—both good and bad, etc.).

Your point doesn't really make sense, because Charli is probably the most overtly British person in that whole list

[Polgg48]

their main acts after 2015 that currently relevent in international market are dua and harry who both dull as dishwasher personalities. their impacts are quite insignificant because of safe music outputs, for future nostalgia era, she looked convincingly determine to push forward for her career but 'we good' and 'prisoner' were really bad to push her back to era one comfort spot music and we already know RO one. they give us nothing for coolness among audience nowadays.

[Polgg48]

raye is one hit wonder outside of UK/ireland and charli is always too american for instance. 

[YourFavoriteWeapon]

When they let Lily Allen's No Shame tank and become her first era without a charting song. 

Edited September 3 by YourFavoriteWeapon

[Blackout2006]

ever since it let In The Zone by Britney Spears peak at #11, like who does that?

[Jay07]

6 hours ago, makeawish said:

something this reminds me of is that: it's often said of the 60s that swinging london etc came about because there was a kind of social mobility that we hadn't had before. the working and lower middle classes were able to move into the creative industries and express themselves in ways that had been prevented by the 'know yr place' social dynamics of the 50s and further back. even in the 80s and 90s, the ability to claim benefits with few conditions and ridiculous stat massaging things like the enterprise allowance scheme allowed kids breathing space to work on music and find new directions for themselves. no one can do that now

 

increasingly now, britain has become a 'who you know' culture again, where people get on because of connections rather than talent. tho there is much 2 b said about x factor etc in the 00s, it did at least provide an avenue for young people to make the jump to stardom, there's no girls aloud or 1d without that. so much british talent that's come thru over the last 15 years (adele, RAYE, florence, charli) have either come thru the BRIT school or private education rather than the state school system almost everyone goes to. you hear the new artists on the radio and it's rare that they don't have a cut glass upper middle class accent. that doesn't mean they aren't good but it does mean that we don't necessarily have kids coming thru with an outsider edge, not so much of a cool factor. 

 

i don't think its all one way tho. it's nice to see stormzy back at #1 because he is a real outsider success story and someone who, at the height of his fame, was prepared to kick off and not just play the 'be famous and keep yr mouth shut' game. despite their education background, people like charli and RAYE also come off as outsiders for different reasons based on the career choices that they've made. but one thing about seeing oasis back in the charts is, i think, that it makes people nostalgic for a time where there were more characters in music rather than media trained personalities (i love dua but i've never seen anything so cringe than her between songs chat at glastonbury)

This is fascinating insight, thank you.

[theweekend]

6 hours ago, makeawish said:

something this reminds me of is that: it's often said of the 60s that swinging london etc came about because there was a kind of social mobility that we hadn't had before. the working and lower middle classes were able to move into the creative industries and express themselves in ways that had been prevented by the 'know yr place' social dynamics of the 50s and further back. even in the 80s and 90s, the ability to claim benefits with few conditions and ridiculous stat massaging things like the enterprise allowance scheme allowed kids breathing space to work on music and find new directions for themselves. no one can do that now

 

increasingly now, britain has become a 'who you know' culture again, where people get on because of connections rather than talent. tho there is much 2 b said about x factor etc in the 00s, it did at least provide an avenue for young people to make the jump to stardom, there's no girls aloud or 1d without that. so much british talent that's come thru over the last 15 years (adele, RAYE, florence, charli) have either come thru the BRIT school or private education rather than the state school system almost everyone goes to. you hear the new artists on the radio and it's rare that they don't have a cut glass upper middle class accent. that doesn't mean they aren't good but it does mean that we don't necessarily have kids coming thru with an outsider edge, not so much of a cool factor. 

 

i don't think its all one way tho. it's nice to see stormzy back at #1 because he is a real outsider success story and someone who, at the height of his fame, was prepared to kick off and not just play the 'be famous and keep yr mouth shut' game. despite their education background, people like charli and RAYE also come off as outsiders for different reasons based on the career choices that they've made. but one thing about seeing oasis back in the charts is, i think, that it makes people nostalgic for a time where there were more characters in music rather than media trained personalities (i love dua but i've never seen anything so cringe than her between songs chat at glastonbury)

points were made. there's no one interesting in UK music scene right now apart from some outsiders - listed before - or some flops/alternative acts. I feel like Latin America/Asia took over UK as the counterparts to USA music culture.

[beatsandbops]

11 hours ago, makeawish said:

so much british talent that's come thru over the last 15 years (adele, RAYE, florence, charli) have either come thru the BRIT school or private education rather than the state school system almost everyone goes to. you hear the new artists on the radio and it's rare that they don't have a cut glass upper middle class accent. that doesn't mean they aren't good but it does mean that we don't necessarily have kids coming thru with an outsider edge, not so much of a cool factor. 

Can you give more insight on why the BRIT school sometimes gets a bad rep. I've read it a few times as it is seen as bad. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the BRIT school free? So underpriviliged kids can go there (i know you have to audition so not everyone is accepted). 

 

You also got the Sylvia Young thearte school and that one is private and expensive.

[makeawish]

1 hour ago, beatsandbops said:

Can you give more insight on why the BRIT school sometimes gets a bad rep. I've read it a few times as it is seen as bad. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the BRIT school free? So underpriviliged kids can go there (i know you have to audition so not everyone is accepted). 

it is free but it's an industry driven performing arts school, not something that necessarily allows artists to develop in a particularly idiosyncratic way. the argument in favour of it would be that in a country where privilege is ingrained so deeply then it allows a few kids to jump the barrier. BUT, that kind of selective school is usually gamed by the kind of parents who know how to play the system anyway so it's not getting to creative kids in underprivileged areas very often. selective education has a long history in the uk of picking a few easy winners and throwing everyone else back on the state to take their chances, so it ends up being another way of reinforcing privilege. 

 

BUT ALSO, if we're talking about ideas around what's "cool, countercultural", etc, music that comes from an institutional background - vetted by teachers and industry types - is far less likely to have that sense of striking out in a new direction, standing apart in a different way etc than something that develops in a more grassroots manner. however, that's what gets the advantages from the brit school approach. a looser form of education that encourages creativity without having a hothouse type situation might be more helpful for that kind of thing but that's not what that we have here. in fact, music and arts based education in state schools has been absolutely battered over the the period of the last government, who were very keen to take an axe to cultural subjects, which they felt were "mickey mouse classes" (ie not proper schooling) and also sensed were hostile to a tory mindset (creatives tend not to be tories)

 

i think there's a role for things like the brit school in the education system but the way that we've fallen back on it is probably not a good thing, you need more varied sources of help for creativity. but that's just my opinion : )

 

[beatsandbops]

13 minutes ago, makeawish said:

it is free but it's an industry driven performing arts school, not something that necessarily allows artists to develop in a particularly idiosyncratic way. the argument in favour of it would be that in a country where privilege is ingrained so deeply then it allows a few kids to jump the barrier. BUT, that kind of selective school is usually gamed by the kind of parents who know how to play the system anyway so it's not getting to creative kids in underprivileged areas very often. selective education has a long history in the uk of picking a few easy winners and throwing everyone else back on the state to take their chances, so it ends up being another way of reinforcing privilege. 

 

BUT ALSO, if we're talking about ideas around what's "cool, countercultural", etc, music that comes from an institutional background - vetted by teachers and industry types - is far less likely to have that sense of striking out in a new direction, standing apart in a different way etc than something that develops in a more grassroots manner. however, that's what gets the advantages from the brit school approach. a looser form of education that encourages creativity without having a hothouse type situation might be more helpful for that kind of thing but that's not what that we have here. in fact, music and arts based education in state schools has been absolutely battered over the the period of the last government, who were very keen to take an axe to cultural subjects, which they felt were "mickey mouse classes" (ie not proper schooling) and also sensed were hostile to a tory mindset (creatives tend not to be tories)

 

i think there's a role for things like the brit school in the education system but the way that we've fallen back on it is probably not a good thing, you need more varied sources of help for creativity. but that's just my opinion : )

 

Thank you. That gives me a bit better understanding.

[Bubble Tea]

Charli XCX is literally British and shaped the entire pop cultural summer as being cool