base talk Times the artist should've listened to the label

[Mariya Takeuchi]

What are some examples of an artist going against label decisions that ultimately backfired on the artist?

 

Prior to the release of Prince's 1992 album Love Symbol, which has segues that tell a story, he decided to add Melt With You to the tracklist at the last minute. This resulted in the original intro & segues being removed from the album due to length which WB thought would confuse listeners. WB was right & the reviews stated the storyline made no sense based on their omissions.

 

WB also wanted the track '7' as the lead single but due to Prince's new contract he had the power to veto them for the first time so he released "Sexy MF" as the lead to make a statement. 

 

ironically '7' was the only top 10 hit from the album when it was eventually released and it peaked at 7 on the BBH100.

 

 

 

[Bends]

Release MV on "Birthday" as a sequel to "California Gurls" on the theme of sweets.

 

Also "Dark Horse" MV had more dark undertones, but Katy insisted on the "comedic" aspect and the video was shot again the week the song reached number one on the Billboard. 

 

UPD: Here is the pic from first version. 

 

 

 

Edited August 31 by Bends

[motherfossora]

gaga releasing judas as the 2nd single off born this way was a vad decision imo

Edited August 31 by motherfossora

[UseYourIllusion2002]

9 minutes ago, Bends said:

Release MV on "Birthday" as a sequel to "California Gurls" on the theme of sweets.

I didn't know Capitol wanted Katy to do this? Her career could've been so different  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Birthday had gone #1 had they gone with this. 

[STMG23]

I was already looking for Katy gifs but her label is probably as stupid as her so it wouldnt fit the thread

[Tropez]

6 minutes ago, motherfossora said:

gaga releasing judas as the 2nd single off born this way was a vad decision imo

Did her label want her to release something else? Could you give us some detail? 

[Rihinvention]

I know it's a cult classic amongst her fans now, but I actually think Gaga's label was in the right for trying to send her back to the studio when she turned in ARTPOP.

 

I think anyone old enough to remember how big she was in 2009-11 can tell you how unprecedented it was. I remember when she came to Sydney in 2011, the police had to shut down the streets and give her presidential motorcade levels of security. She was getting SWARMED.

 

I really think her peak could've been sustained for wayyyy longer if she listened to her label.

[YourFavoriteWeapon]

I remember hearing rumors that Interscope wanted this to be Rare's second single instead of the title track. I really wish Sel listened dd  This definitely had more hit potential.

 

 

 

[Nightingale]

Camila releasing She Loves Control as a single from her first album. She didn't want to be pigeonholed as the Latina but that song would have been another top 10

[UseYourIllusion2002]

27 minutes ago, Rihinvention said:

I know it's a cult classic amongst her fans now, but I actually think Gaga's label was in the right for trying to send her back to the studio when she turned in ARTPOP.

I didn't know this either, anymore details?

[RealityBites]

Kelly Clarkson should have compromised with RCA to put a couple of radio friendly songs on My December. I feel like there could have been a way to incorporate those songs into the album. 
 

I love the album but I think having a couple of songs they wanted (she also would have made a boatload of money as they tried to pay her more) would have made the era more successful and wouldn't have slowed down her momentum. I am glad she was able to get the opportunity to make the album but they treated her so terribly during that era. 
 

but then it begs the question if she would have had a number one with My Life Would Suck without you since it was her "comeback" 

[Rihinvention]

34 minutes ago, UseYourIllusion2002 said:

I didn't know this either, anymore details?

Yeah, there are so many articles from around that time. It was so messy. All you have to google is "ARTFLOP" and stuff comes up. But here's a few.

 

 

New York Post:

https://nypost.com/2013/12/14/what-happened-to-lady-gaga/

 

Quote

Gaga's label was concerned that the rec­ord had no hits and asked her to tweak some of the tracks, or release the record as an EP. She declined, and Carter ­attempted to intervene, to no avail.

 

Gaga, according to one source, said she refused to "adulterate my art," and Carter quit.

 

"I have a lot of experience in this area," says one longtime label executive and producer. "Artists have a lot of help on their first albums, and they're open to a lot of help, and they are very smart collaborators and make great work."

 

Once that work results in great success, he says, the artist invariably believes they are solely responsible.

 

"Time and again, they feel like they could have done it themselves, and if they had done it their way, it would have been even bigger," he says. "So they jettison the people who helped them get where they are and hire people who are less powerful, who let them do what they want. I think that may be where Lady Gaga is."

 

And without anyone formidable to guide her, Lady Gaga, for the first time in her career, seems culturally tone-deaf, releasing an album that's ostensibly about modern art — a "reverse Warholian expedition," as Gaga so loftily describes it — to a public that doesn't care.

 

Page Six:

https://pagesix.com/2013/11/25/lady-gagas-artpop-led-to-rift-with-manager/

 

Quote

Lady Gaga's refusal to add more poppy "radio-friendly" songs to her latest album, "Artpop," was the fatal wedge between her and ex-manager Troy Carter, sources tell Page Six.

 

Gaga and Carter, who had managed the singer since 2007, announced earlier this month they were parting ways because of "creative differences."

 

But sources tell us the "Applause" singer and Carter hit an impasse after Gaga and her record label disagreed over the musical direction of "Artpop."

 

We hear executives at Gaga's label Interscope had concerns over her third album "not having any big "hits" on it." They asked Gaga to go back to the studio and rework a few tracks.

 

Execs at Interscope suggested she could release "Artpop" as an EP, to complement an album of more radio-friendly hits. But she refused.

 

We're told Interscope asked Carter to try to get through to the defiant singer, but Gaga refused "to adulterate her art," one source said. Shortly before the album hit stores, Carter and Gaga announced they'd no longer be working together.

Page Six again:

https://pagesix.com/2014/01/08/lady-gaga-rips-ex-manager-for-artpop-flop/
 

Quote

Lady Gaga seemed to blame her "Artpop" ­disaster on her ex-manager Troy Carter in a blistering online rant, but music insiders say the real problem is her lackluster album.

 

Gaga parted ways with Carter in November, days before "Artpop" was due to hit shelves. Critics called the album a flop after it sold about 250,000 copies in its first week and dropped 82 percent in its second week (Beyoncé's self-titled surprise fifth album, released in mid-December sold 618,000 copies in week one).

 

The singer ranted on her Web site LittleMonsters that the Terry Richardson-directed video "Do What U Want," a duet with R&B crooner R. Kelly, has been delayed, and appeared to blame Carter for "betraying" her — even though he'd split with her before the video was made.

 

"It is late because, just like the 'Applause' video…I was given a week to plan and execute it. It is very devastating. All my most successful videos were planned over a period of time when I was rested and my creativity was honored," she wrote on Sunday.

 

"Those who have betrayed me gravely mismanaged my time and health and left me on my own to damage control any problems that ensued. Millions of dollars are not enough for some people. They want billions. Then they need trillions. Those who did not care about Artpop's success are now gone. I never thought after all the years of hard work that those I called friends and partners would ever care so little at a time I needed them the most."

 

"She's mad the album failed," said our source. "At no point does she talk about the under­performance of the music . . . Everything is to blame except the music being bad."

 

Edited August 31 by Rihinvention

[itshyolee]

1 hour ago, UseYourIllusion2002 said:

I didn't know Capitol wanted Katy to do this? Her career could've been so different  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Birthday had gone #1 had they gone with this. 

Katheryn really is responsible for her own downfall

[Katygato]

1 hour ago, Bends said:

Release MV on "Birthday" as a sequel to "California Gurls" on the theme of sweets.

 

Also "Dark Horse" MV had more dark undertones, but Katy insisted on the "comedic" aspect and the video was shot again the week the song reached number one on the Billboard. 

 

UPD: Here is the pic from first version. 

 

 

 

Hold on... I didn't know any of this.

 

Any more not-so-well-known Katy screw-ups?

[Gladiator]

2 hours ago, Rihinvention said:

I know it's a cult classic amongst her fans now, but I actually think Gaga's label was in the right for trying to send her back to the studio when she turned in ARTPOP.

 

I think anyone old enough to remember how big she was in 2009-11 can tell you how unprecedented it was. I remember when she came to Sydney in 2011, the police had to shut down the streets and give her presidential motorcade levels of security. She was getting SWARMED.

 

I really think her peak could've been sustained for wayyyy longer if she listened to her label.

Woah. I actually had no idea that the label wanted her to hit the studio again.

I enjoy ARTPOP for what it is. It's a good album to listen to while you're running...

But as a follow up to The Fame and Born This Way, I was immensely disappointed in it. I found it a huge regression.

I remember when the first promo for ARTPOP came out. That pic of her in that chip chair. I was gagged.

And then I remember her announcing she was going with black hair that era. I was gagged again.

She was announcing it as the reverse warholian experience. I had imagines of this EDM meets pillar classical music pieces like Vivaldi and Bach.

When all was said and done, we got Andy Cohen as a sun and real housewives pretending to play instruments.

ARTPOP was the era that turned me off as a Gaga stan the level I was from her debut up towards Swinefest (which I still greatly enjoyed).

[Bends]

55 minutes ago, Katygato said:

Hold on... I didn't know any of this.

 

Any more not-so-well-known Katy screw-ups?

To perform with "Rise" at Hillary Clinton's Democratic Convention instead of Rio Olympics Ceremony.

 

[Relampago.]

The cover Tinashe's label picked for Aquarius is better than the version she wanted imo. 

 

They mishandled like… every other part of her career but they were correct on that one.

[Goofy]

1 hour ago, Relampago. said:

The cover Tinashe's label picked for Aquarius is better than the version she wanted imo. 

 

They mishandled like… every other part of her career but they were correct on that one.

the cover she wanted (which we see today) doesn't really represent the album, I prefer the label's cover aswell

[Goofy]

2 hours ago, Rihinvention said:

"I have a lot of experience in this area," says one longtime label executive and producer. "Artists have a lot of help on their first albums, and they're open to a lot of help, and they are very smart collaborators and make great work."

 

Once that work results in great success, he says, the artist invariably believes they are solely responsible.

 

"So they jettison the people who helped them get where they are and hire people who are less powerful, who let them do what they want. I think that may be where Lady Gaga is."

this is definitely true and everybody could tell & feel the harsh drop in quality from TF/M & (partly) BTW to Artpop and the albums/eras after.

[Schami66]

3 hours ago, Rihinvention said:

I really think her peak could've been sustained for wayyyy longer if she listened to her label.

I think Artpop is the way it is, because Gaga was super exhausted and back into drugs, If I remember that correctly.

Maybe we could've had a different album if she, her team and label would've sent her back into vacation for at least 6-12 month but I think that kind of break would've been too long back then.

[Sugar-Rush]

I didn't know that Interscope wanted Gaga to return to the studio during the Artpop sessions; she really should've tbh. Artpop lacked single material after DWUW, as evidenced by the fact that G.U.Y. completely flopped, and no matter what the Liddos say there's no way that Gypsy or Sexxx Dreams or whatever would've done any better.

 

The Birthday video being a sequel to CG would've made a lot more sense than the mess we got instead. That video is a stain on Katy's pre-Witness videography, which while not perfect was at least consistently decent outside of that disaster imho. Katy kinda sabotaged herself there, the start of a trend.

[mons†er]

Lady Gaga releasing 'Alejandro' instead of 'DITD'. I believe DITD was set to be the third single but LG wanted 'Alejandro'. It also stopped 'Monster' from being a single even though remixes were already done for the single. 

 

Also, 'Marry The Night' should've been the first single as intended by the label instead of ''BTW' but once again, Stefani wanted to do what Stefani does and have her way so unfortunately we got 'Express Yourself 2.0' as the lead single instead. 

Edited August 31 by mons†er

[Rihinvention]

4 hours ago, Schami66 said:

I think Artpop is the way it is, because Gaga was super exhausted and back into drugs, If I remember that correctly.

Maybe we could've had a different album if she, her team and label would've sent her back into vacation for at least 6-12 month but I think that kind of break would've been too long back then.

Yeah, her social media meltdowns seem to imply that she was struggling with drugs at the time, not to mention she confessed to it a lot (Princess High, Mary Jane Holland, Dope)

 

I've always wondered if marijuana was a scapegoat/white lie/half-truth. For years, it's been rumoured that Tara (her makeup artist and best friend during this period, who never left her side) was struggling with meth, and had to be removed from her inner-circle because she was a bad influence. They ended up saying she left for "health-related reasons" and she was never seen/spoken about again.

 

But for years, Liddos have heard rumours that Tara ended up getting into meth, and often where there's smoke, there's fire. You would think that if it was (non-addiction related) health reasons, she would've let her recover and would've eventually brought her back with a role at HAUS Labs.

 

 

Edited September 1 by Rihinvention

[cyberraga]

6 hours ago, mons†er said:

Lady Gaga releasing 'Alejandro' instead of 'DITD'. I believe DITD was set to be the third single but LG wanted 'Alejandro'. It also stopped 'Monster' from being a single even though remixes were already done for the single. 

 

Also, 'Marry The Night' should've been the first single as intended by the label instead of ''BTW' but once again, Stefani wanted to do what Stefani does and have her way so unfortunately we got 'Express Yourself 2.0' as the lead single instead. 

Wait what? Why would that have stopped Monster as a single?

 

Tbh I think making Alejandro the single was the better decision, DITD wouldn't have been as big. I'm also glad she didn't listen to the label about their complaints regarding the TFM album covers. 

 

However I do agree that she should've listened to them about MTN being the first single. 

[mons†er]

7 hours ago, cyberraga said:

Wait what? Why would that have stopped Monster as a single?

 

Tbh I think making Alejandro the single was the better decision, DITD wouldn't have been as big. I'm also glad she didn't listen to the label about their complaints regarding the TFM album covers. 

 

However I do agree that she should've listened to them about MTN being the first single. 

the backlash from 'Alejandro' stopped any and all momentum that TFM had. Between the video and the Madonna comparisons it derailed the success of TFM. DITD was always going to be bigger hence it charting higher and was more of a fan favorite upon release. LG wanted Alejandro for more creative purposes while DITD was more of a commercial pick. That's why it was performed at the EMA's