YellowRibbon Posted August 22 Posted August 22 2 hours ago, Gov Hooka said: "Defensive" arms for an illegitimate country occupying stolen land are inherently offensive because Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians all deserve to fight back against Israeli aggression. Sorry but you're not actually the "least pro-israel" person out here if you're more concerned for the people committing genocide than the people suffering from and resisting it. I recognize that Israel is on stolen land, but the new generations of Jews that were born there without their consent don't deserve to be slaughtered by revenge-thirsty extremists. It's just logic
heckinglovato Posted August 22 Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, YellowRibbon said: I recognize that Israel is on stolen land, but the new generations of Jews that were born there without their consent don't deserve to be slaughtered by revenge-thirsty extremists. It's just logic If Hamas are revenge thirsty extremists for killing 1k people (600 of whom are civilians), then are you saying these new generations of innocent Israelis (who serve in the IDF) are 66x times more of revenge extremists for mass murdering 40k civilians?
welham Posted August 22 Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, YellowRibbon said: I recognize that Israel is on stolen land, but the new generations of Jews that were born there without their consent don't deserve to be slaughtered by revenge-thirsty extremists. It's just logic I agree. These new generations, however, are supporting and committing an ongoing genocide. Somehow these "defensive" always, for decades long before the war on Gaza, end up murdering Palestinians. And why are we pretending that we don't know what "defensive" really means when Western politicians automatically reply with "Israel has the right to defend itself" whenever questioned about Israel atrocities against Palestinians. We all now Western notions of "defense" are not really the type of "defense" virtually everyone else understands. I also have a hard time believing that if push come to shove, the US wouldn't swiftly come to the aid of Israel if they genuinely were currently under an existential attack even after enforcing arms embargo. And that's the point. They have the leverage. They forces all over the Mid-East, and they can always send more. Yet somehow an arms embargo is something unthinkable, when Israel even has it domestic manufacturing capabilities that, along with existing stockpiles, would rebuff ANY attacks until the US + EU allies come to save it. Israel is a Western military base in the heart of the Middle East. It will be saved no matter what. So what now? 3
ChooseyLover Posted August 22 Posted August 22 (edited) I think voters who a have a strong opinion on what's happening to Palestinians shouldn't vote a candidate whose actions/views don't align with theirs. It's very delusional to think the Democratic Party cares about these issues or it can switch and actually care now. Third parties are where it's at imo. Edited August 24 by ChooseyLover 2 2 2
YellowRibbon Posted August 22 Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, heckinglovato said: If Hamas are revenge thirsty extremists for killing 1k people (600 of whom are civilians), then are you saying these new generations of innocent Israelis (who serve in the IDF) are 66x times more of revenge extremists for mass murdering 40k civilians? I'm not even talking about Hamas (which basically a consequence of the occupation) but all the other terrorist groups led by religious zealots that operate in the region. You would be foolish to not expect a massacre if Israel is completely unarmed. The best way forward is a secular two-state solution, but for that to even have a chance of happening, you have to hold Netanyahu and the other high ranking officials of that atrocious government accountable for their crimes against humanity. International mediation would be needed ,maybe for decades, but eventually, a new generation could break the cycle of violence and death.
heckinglovato Posted August 22 Posted August 22 9 minutes ago, YellowRibbon said: I'm not even talking about Hamas (which basically a consequence of the occupation) but all the other terrorist groups led by religious zealots that operate in the region. You would be foolish to not expect a massacre if Israel is completely unarmed. The best way forward is a secular two-state solution, but for that to even have a chance of happening, you have to hold Netanyahu and the other high ranking officials of that atrocious government accountable for their crimes against humanity. International mediation would be needed ,maybe for decades, but eventually, a new generation could break the cycle of violence and death. I come from a Palestinian family that was exiled from Ramle, which is now part of modern day Apartheid Israel. We were never allowed to go back and visit our home, and have been living in different countries since. The failed two-state solution approach you're preaching would allow a family from Poland to continue living in our hometown and utilizing our tangible assets, enroll in the IDF to terrorize and kill Palestinian land natives, and make me only able to live (if at all) in places like the West Bank/Gaza which I have no connection to, and neither own anything in. Can you tell me, directly, why you think the Kowalskis deserve to own my house? 4
heckinglovato Posted August 24 Posted August 24 On 8/22/2024 at 5:07 PM, heckinglovato said: I come from a Palestinian family that was exiled from Ramle, which is now part of modern day Apartheid Israel. We were never allowed to go back and visit our home, and have been living in different countries since. The failed two-state solution approach you're preaching would allow a family from Poland to continue living in our hometown and utilizing our tangible assets, enroll in the IDF to terrorize and kill Palestinian land natives, and make me only able to live (if at all) in places like the West Bank/Gaza which I have no connection to, and neither own anything in. Can you tell me, directly, why you think the Kowalskis deserve to own my house? ^ As I thought, radio silence 1
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