discussion European tourist goes viral for US trip; pans obesity, tipping culture and more

[єѕℓαм]

He made several points actually 

especially with the tipping, and most importantly the loudness 

Americans are way too loud to the point of shouting 

[Trent W]

I feel so relaxed when I trip outside of America

In some countries people are even weirded out when you try to tip them

 

I don't blame american waiters but the system that makes them go through that 

[Jack!]

I'm actually for the tipping culture, to an extent. Like tipping in a coffee shop or fast food/drink location is a stretch. But in terms of a table service location I don't feel hard done by giving 15-20% for someone who is working hard and giving me a good dining experience. I'd been a server in the UK for years and it's miserable. Minimum wage in the UK isn't even that bad but still the pay is low, and because tips are low here too there's no drive in the job. A lot of restaurant jobs are also zero hour contracts so you're not guaranteed hours or stable work weeks anyway. I worked in the US for 3 years as a fine dining server for a large entertainment company and if I was to do that job for the UK minimum wage rate and a couple of dollars tip per table I would have quit.  I worked hard to earn my tips and the job was way more enjoyable despite the very low minimum wage. I had a signed contract, set scheduled hours and the same days off every week. I don't deny there is some changes that can be made, perhaps a more sustainable living wage and lowering tip expectancy to 10% or something like that. But also, depending on where you work and the style of restaurant, serving isn't an easy job. If you feel the expectancy to pay for your meal and tip your server is too much, maybe stop going to table service restaurants. 

[Riverbank]

21 minutes ago, Joey307 said:

Tip 20% or more or stay the **** home. 

If we stay home we have to pay for delivery fees AND tip on top of that. I'm afraid we have to side with Mr Lehmann on this one

 

 

 

[SlowGinFizzzz]

Well he spilled. 

[Archetype]

Send them to Switzerland and see if they complain about prices 

[halcyonday]

Several points were made.

[Steve Jobs]

I'll NEVER understand why people complain about other people being friendly

[Vermouth]

The tipping is, of course, understandable and necessary in a world where there's no minimum wage, such as US servers operate in.

 

However, I don't feel I can stress enough how alien it feels, as a non American, to tip for just pouring a beer. Like wtf!  Now on the flip side minimum wage (over 21) in the U.K. for instance is just under the equivalent of $15/hr (and healthcare is free with that of course) so it's a different equation, but one that's familiar in other European countries.

 

Also eating out and supermarkets are ridiculously expensive in the US compared to other Western countries. Like what is going on? I'm talking 20-30% more.

[Ichinaru19]

Just came back from my trip to Japan, and not having to worry about tipping was great. The guy judging the US based on his time in Las Vegas though is a bit of a stretch

[Yawn]

13 minutes ago, Jack! said:

I'm actually for the tipping culture, to an extent. Like tipping in a coffee shop or fast food/drink location is a stretch. But in terms of a table service location I don't feel hard done by giving 15-20% for someone who is working hard and giving me a good dining experience. I'd been a server in the UK for years and it's miserable. Minimum wage in the UK isn't even that bad but still the pay is low, and because tips are low here too there's no drive in the job. A lot of restaurant jobs are also zero hour contracts so you're not guaranteed hours or stable work weeks anyway. I worked in the US for 3 years as a fine dining server for a large entertainment company and if I was to do that job for the UK minimum wage rate and a couple of dollars tip per table I would have quit.  I worked hard to earn my tips and the job was way more enjoyable despite the very low minimum wage. I had a signed contract, set scheduled hours and the same days off every week. I don't deny there is some changes that can be made, perhaps a more sustainable living wage and lowering tip expectancy to 10% or something like that. But also, depending on where you work and the style of restaurant, serving isn't an easy job. If you feel the expectancy to pay for your meal and tip your server is too much, maybe stop going to table service restaurants. 

indeed! ensuring an acceptable core hourly salary for servers where they don't absolutely depend on tips to meet a liveable income is most important. it would be even better though if european culture (or just the world outside USA i guess ) was more open to non-compulsory tipping for great service, however. 

[Vermouth]

6 minutes ago, Steve Jobs said:

I'll NEVER understand why people complain about other people being friendly

To others it can be perceived as false and intrusive.

[Steve Jobs]

Just now, Vermouth said:

To others it can be perceived as false and intrusive.

Well nobody expects small talk with the barista to be real, deep and meaningful. It's just …small talk. If people think it's intrusive, idk what to say, shut it down or maybe stay in the house.  And it's not even just in America, people in the service industry or retail in many European countries are super friendly (in others like the one the guy on X is from, not so much )

[dinorhino]

Germans doing their best to make themselves the shittiest people in the EU with the dumbest takes ever since the UK left, we love to see it

[pigeon]

20 minutes ago, Steve Jobs said:

I'll NEVER understand why people complain about other people being friendly

He is German, people here don't like to talk about anything because it feels intrusive. Like they are having trouble to say condolensences and ****. I find it weird too.

[Vermouth]

11 minutes ago, Steve Jobs said:

Well nobody expects small talk with the barista to be real, deep and meaningful. It's just …small talk. If people think it's intrusive, idk what to say, shut it down or maybe stay in the house.  And it's not even just in America, people in the service industry or retail in many European countries are super friendly (in others like the one the guy on X is from, not so much )

Of course, but it's all about levels. I can understand what the German guy alludes to.

 

To generalise hugely (so caveats abound), US service is more attentive and talkative than say the U.K. and to Brits that can come over as overbearing and false. Vice versa, I guess, could apply, that U.K./European service could be seen as taciturn and distant by Americans.

Edited August 21 by Vermouth

[Khal]

Agree with everything except the "how are you" part, it's just perfunctory small talk. Idk why some people act like they're going to die (and this is coming from an introvert), just give a brief response and/or smile and be on your way, it's really not that serious  

[BGKC]

I was a server/bartender in fine dinging in NYC and made close to $80K per year bc of the tipping culture. It goes hand in hand with the entrepreneurial culture. My case was an extreme case, but American servers overall make more than your average Nurse in Europe. I understand that the tipping culture to be exploitive, but you're talking about a country where people oppose universal/affordable healthcare as well as raising the minimum wage. It's all about individualism, avoiding taxes and maximizing profits. The restaurant owners can raise their prices to subsidize the costs of labor, and you'd still be left with paying 20% or more. That or just include a 20% service fee of the sort, which customers are known to make a fuss about anyway. 
 

Europe obviously has a better social safety net and better labor protection laws, but those are due to regulations and taxes that America business owners and entrepreneurs fiercely oppose. It's not the restaurant servers fault, but to stiff them bc you don't agree with tipping culture after supporting a business that thrives on such a model is wildly ironic. 

Edited August 21 by BGKC

[WildAmerican]

if you have a waiter, you need to tip, and if you can't afford to, you probably shouldn't be eating out. But when it asks you to tip a faceless rando, that feels weird. 

 

[dinorhino]

Everything that's wrong with his takes:
 

- Basing the US off of NYC (which he probably only went to Manhattan) and Las Vegas is equivalent to judging the entirety of Europe by going to select parts of London and Paris. just a moron on all fronts 

- A lot if not most of the talkative and friendly nature Americans present is to save face rather than actually being nice and friendly. You are seen as rude and chastised if you don't perform this and are more introverted

- "The American dream is live and well" meanwhile people can barely, if at all, afford homes, can't get higher education without tonnes of debt, as well as getting into tonnes of debt for basic mediocre healthcare. Basic necessities such as cars often require debt. American dream btw. 

- him acting like casinos are an every day experience for americans lmfaooooooooo i would bet money the vast majority of americans have never been to a casino in their lives

- "the lights are always on in america" no they aren't? You went to a 24/7 hour city (New York, specifically Manhattan) and Las Vegas that is known for that. The average city isn't like that, even bigger cities like Houston, Seattle, Miami, and whatnot.

- His description of American customer service lacks so much nuance. They aren't doing that out of the kindness of their hearts they're doing that because they often are forced to or they're seen as doing a bad job. American customer service workers are often abused because of how ingratiatingly saccharine they have to be to appease customers and they can't defend themselves even when they're being very mistreated. I've had my parents literally complain about a waitress being "bad at her job" because she didn't smile even though she was attentive, took our orders, and did everything else well except have a happy-happy-joy-joy tone

- Acting like the average American owns designer watches and luxury cars looooooool. And many Americans get into debt to achieve this too, if they even have it. It's not a sign of financial wealth many times and you can easily find people like this in London and Paris too so I'm not sure why he's acting like this doesn't exist in Europe???????

 

On his bad "meme": 

- Multiple countries in the EU have higher average salaries in the US, in addition to the fact that he seems to erroneously be comparing disposable income for EU to gross income for the US, not factoring in Americans tend to spend way more and need to get into way more debt for basic necessities. Also American healthcare ranks low for how much they spend on it and in general (not higher than most EU nations') so the idea of American healthcare being better is false. Shorter queue times exist in the US because less people are able to access healthcare and it's privatised. No **** a universal healthcare system is going to have more patients and therefore be slower. 

- Obviously, pretty much all of the EU has free speech. Especially as of late in the US where you have presidential candidates wanting and insurrection against dissidents in addition to American-owned companies (see: Twitter) actively censoring and shutting down people they don't agree with for trite reasons, the US does not have anymore freedom of speech than most developed countries and it actually ranks pretty lower than the EU on freedom of speech for journalists worldwide. 

- Americans can't afford a car either and taking public transit isn't a dig lol.

- the culture thing is subjective I guess, but the fact that you have relatively tiny countries like France and Spain vastly outdoing tourist numbers in the US that says quite a lot 

- The EU has more homelessness than the US...? l o l

 

Germans are so arrogant but yet so stupid. it's unreal 

[Namiskine]

He made some points, but overall the thread, and especially the meme Europe v. USA conclusion, is giving central/liberal ***** fantasizing the American capitalism 

[Gov Hooka]

3 minutes ago, dinorhino said:

Everything that's wrong with his takes:
 

- Basing the US off of NYC (which he probably only went to Manhattan) and Las Vegas is equivalent to judging the entirety of Europe by going to select parts of London and Paris. just a moron on all fronts 

- A lot if not most of the talkative and friendly nature Americans present is to save face rather than actually being nice and friendly. You are seen as rude and chastised if you don't perform this and are more introverted

- "The American dream is live and well" meanwhile people can barely, if at all, afford homes, can't get higher education without tonnes of debt, as well as getting into tonnes of debt for basic mediocre healthcare. Basic necessities such as cars often require debt. American dream btw. 

- him acting like casinos are an every day experience for americans lmfaooooooooo i would bet money the vast majority of americans have never been to a casino in their lives

- "the lights are always on in america" no they aren't? You went to a 24/7 hour city (New York, specifically Manhattan) and Las Vegas that is known for that. The average city isn't like that, even bigger cities like Houston, Seattle, Miami, and whatnot.

- His description of American customer service lacks so much nuance. They aren't doing that out of the kindness of their hearts they're doing that because they often are forced to or they're seen as doing a bad job. American customer service workers are often abused because of how ingratiatingly saccharine they have to be to appease customers and they can't defend themselves even when they're being very mistreated. I've had my parents literally complain about a waitress being "bad at her job" because she didn't smile even though she was attentive, took our orders, and did everything else well except have a happy-happy-joy-joy tone

- Acting like the average American owns designer watches and luxury cars looooooool. And many Americans get into debt to achieve this too, if they even have it. It's not a sign of financial wealth many times and you can easily find people like this in London and Paris too so I'm not sure why he's acting like this doesn't exist in Europe???????

 

On his bad "meme": 

- Multiple countries in the EU have higher average salaries in the US, in addition to the fact that he seems to erroneously be comparing disposable income for EU to gross income for the US, not factoring in Americans tend to spend way more and need to get into way more debt for basic necessities. Also American healthcare ranks low for how much they spend on it and in general (not higher than most EU nations') so the idea of American healthcare being better is false. Shorter queue times exist in the US because less people are able to access healthcare and it's privatised. No **** a universal healthcare system is going to have more patients and therefore be slower. 

- Obviously, pretty much all of the EU has free speech. Especially as of late in the US where you have presidential candidates wanting and insurrection against dissidents in addition to American-owned companies (see: Twitter) actively censoring and shutting down people they don't agree with for trite reasons, the US does not have anymore freedom of speech than most developed countries and it actually ranks pretty lower than the EU on freedom of speech for journalists worldwide. 

- Americans can't afford a car either and taking public transit isn't a dig lol.

- the culture thing is subjective I guess, but the fact that you have relatively tiny countries like France and Spain vastly outdoing tourist numbers in the US that says quite a lot 

- The EU has more homelessness than the US...? l o l

 

Germans are so arrogant but yet so stupid. it's unreal 

/thread 

[KFC]

55 minutes ago, Vermouth said:

Also eating out and supermarkets are ridiculously expensive in the US compared to other Western countries. Like what is going on? I'm talking 20-30% more.

It's insane and I really don't understand why considering they're saving SO much by not paying the staff.

[Breakdown]

I'm usually the first one to bully Americans but the photo of him just screams annoying European in the worst way possible, I know what people who look like him are like and they are unbearable, so I don't care what he has to say. 

Edited August 21 by Breakdown

[JoeAg]

before i watch this it better not be a german person because literally no offense if any of you are german i'm sure Y'ALL on here are cool but the last time I interacted with german people in europe, they were absolutely ruder, grosser, more entitled,  and more obese than any american i know lol

 

i know i shouldn't generalize but i had some really uncomfortable experiences with german people in my day  just saying.