base talk Why is it unpopular to say that Taylor is as big as MJ?

[Baegalme]

3 hours ago, Sawk said:

I never said she did any of those things, keep inserting whatever narrative you want into me, but it was pretty clear I was talking about commercial success. You'd also have to be blinded by your distaste of her to not be able to acknowledge she's negatively perceived because she's the most popular artist right now and she's a woman. 

Well then how is she the equivalent as a musical phenomenon when she isn't equivalent to him in any of these categories (impact, influence, innovation etc)
 

I never said she isn't experiencing any misogyny all I'm saying is that misogyny is not the reason why people say she isn't on MJ's level  

[ImpressMeMuch]

10 hours ago, TouchinFree said:

Why do you say that? Taylor caters to all ages and races. Here's a live proof of that: 

 

 

Versatility.....versatility everywhere. 

absolute nightmare fuel

 

like, straight out of get out tier

[princedonte]

Michael has a bigger demographic. He had more appeal in developing countries and is way more innovative and talented. Taylor isn't touching him. 

[Shelter]

12 hours ago, TouchinFree said:

Why do you say that? Taylor caters to all ages and races. Here's a live proof of that: 

 

 

Versatility.....versatility everywhere. 

Omg Cringe

Edited August 6 by Shelter

[KevinKDC]

On 8/5/2024 at 8:53 AM, mons†er said:

Well one, I'm black and black people cant be racist. We can be prejudice and bigots but never racist. Also, what I said was a generalization but it was very true. If it wasn't, you wouldn't have quoted me. It definitely hit a nerve. 

 

And I'm not even a Lady Gaga fan. You just wanted to reply instead of doing your research.

 

What we can expect is a bunch of twinks running in those thread fighting for their lives trying to prove how accomplished Taylor is because they know she cannot sing well, she isn't the best at writing songs and the girl can't dance. She is very successful and that is a FACT that no one can deny. Even if you dislike her, she is the moment. 

Omg do you really believe that black people cant be racist?

[BGKC]

MJ defined global appeal. Everyone, white black Asian Puerto Rican, male female and everything in between was a fan. It's not to say Taylor only appeals to a single demographic, but it's just not at all comparable. MJ brought people together in a huge way. 

[mons†er]

41 minutes ago, KevinKDC said:

Omg do you really believe that black people cant be racist?

Racism is built on the backs of those who are oppressed. Black people are the most oppressed individuals in the world. We can't be racist, however we can be prejudice, bigots, misogynists, etc. Racism is beyond just skin color, it means there are boundaries and hindrances in place in order to keep a race of individuals from succeeding and excelling.

 

Now tell me where Black people are able to do that when everyone else is reaping the benefits of our culture. I'll wait. 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Because she's not bigger than Michael. Michael has a classic catalog full of hits. Michael was more talented. Michael didn't have to release 50 variations of an album to stay on top of the charts. Everyone listened to (and still listens to) Michael's music, mostly teenage white girls are streaming Taylor's nursery rhymes. 

Edited August 6 by BeenThereDoneThat

[charot]

15 hours ago, TouchinFree said:

Why do you say that? Taylor caters to all ages and races. Here's a live proof of that: 

 

 

Versatility.....versatility everywhere. 

Giving kpop fandoms. 

 

Indeed the BTS of the West.

[KevinKDC]

1 hour ago, mons†er said:

Racism is built on the backs of those who are oppressed. Black people are the most oppressed individuals in the world. We can't be racist, however we can be prejudice, bigots, misogynists, etc. Racism is beyond just skin color, it means there are boundaries and hindrances in place in order to keep a race of individuals from succeeding and excelling.

 

Now tell me where Black people are able to do that when everyone else is reaping the benefits of our culture. I'll wait. 

 

So what do you call black culture discriminating, creating boundaries and hindrances in place in order to keep gays from simply living their lives?

 

And besides that I can name you many places where a black person can act based on racism. What about against other minorities? In Suriname, the country where I live, blacks are the majority and Asians and latinos are the main minority. Latinos here can't get jobs because they are easily associated with violence and theft; and the most directors here are black men.

 

Racism is defined as the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities that make them superior or inferior to one another. It involves discrimination, prejudice, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. 
 

Because a race or group has or are experiencing racism; doesn't mean they are immune of being racist or doing racist acts.

 

And this is coming from someone who is biracial and black. I've seen EVERY race perform racist acts. No one is immune from doing it or being at the receiving end.

[TouchinFree]

4 minutes ago, charot said:

Giving kpop fandoms. 

 

Indeed the BTS of the West.

If you look closer, they're literally ALL the same height as well  there's no.........Variants even 

[Suspendedintheair]

Why tf this thread is even still open is the REAL concern???? 

[Sweetness]

12 hours ago, Phaunzie said:

Because culturally she is not, hell Madonna and Michael are still far above her. There is difference between sales and name recognition, those two were known globally without th ease of access of the internet. They were known in areas that were isolated from big cities. Tell me, do you think. people are bopping to Taylor Swift in the Amazon Rainforest. Noo.

 

Unlike Taylor, MJ raced racism, classism and colourism so those screaming misogyny, girl bye.  

Yet I was told it was much easier back then because they didn't have social media/internet. But without it to become a global phenom would've been diffcult, there was nothing to connect you to the other part of the world, even in another state the programing and what you had access could be different.

[Mountain_Aardvark]

Quite frankly, it's because Taylor isn't there yet. Yeah, MJ got weird from about age 35 on. Taylor's arriving at that phase of her life right now. Let's see how she makes out with her life over the next 10+ years as THE global pop star before passing judgement on her vis a vis MJ and M.

[MattieB]

10 hours ago, KevinKDC said:

 

So what do you call black culture discriminating, creating boundaries and hindrances in place in order to keep gays from simply living their lives?

 

And besides that I can name you many places where a black person can act based on racism. What about against other minorities? In Suriname, the country where I live, blacks are the majority and Asians and latinos are the main minority. Latinos here can't get jobs because they are easily associated with violence and theft; and the most directors here are black men.

 

Racism is defined as the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities that make them superior or inferior to one another. It involves discrimination, prejudice, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. 
 

Because a race or group has or are experiencing racism; doesn't mean they are immune of being racist or doing racist acts.

 

And this is coming from someone who is biracial and black. I've seen EVERY race perform racist acts. No one is immune from doing it or being at the receiving end.

You cant be biracial and black

[PoisonedIvy]

3 minutes ago, MattieB said:

You cant be biracial and black

As the main character of ATRL,

 

I have to chime in and say that being biracial does not invalidate one's blackness (or any other ethnic background). 

[MattieB]

27 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

As the main clown of ATRL,

 

I have to chime in and say that being biracial does not invalidate one's blackness (or any other ethnic background). 

No one said it didn't. However being black and being biracial are two different things, you could identify with your black side that still doesn't make you black. You're still biracial aka mixed at the end of the day.

I blame the one drop rule

[PoisonedIvy]

7 minutes ago, MattieB said:

No one said it didn't. However being black and being biracial are two different things, you could identify with your black side that still doesn't make you black. You're still biracial aka mixed at the end of the day.

I blame the one drop rule

As the main character of ATRL, 

 

I will respectfully disagree. This is a sensitive subject for me as I'm biracial (black & hispanic) and as someone that was raised in a black household, exposed to black culture, alongside my black family members, and is perceived by society as black… I have never agreed with the stance you're taking. I know it's a somewhat common one, I've heard it before. It just stings to have to defend myself.
 

But I will have to abstain from any further discussion. You're welcome to your opinion, just know that it is a little hurtful to invalidate someone's racial identity. I'm black. I experience the world as a black man. That doesn't go away just because my father is a Mexican American.

Edited August 7 by PoisonedIvy

[blueberries]

to say she's as big as mj is a bit far fetched

but she is the closest female to rival beatles/mj's success

[Kristie Kuwa]

A legend isn't defined by his/her numbers only. A lesson Swifties have to learn.

 

Ill leave it at that.

 

[MattieB]

42 minutes ago, PoisonedIvy said:

As the main character of ATRL, 

 

I will respectfully disagree. This is a sensitive subject for me as I'm biracial (black & hispanic) and as someone that was raised in a black household, exposed to black culture, alongside my black family members, and is perceived by society as black… I have never agreed with the stance you're taking. I know it's a somewhat common one, I've heard it before. It just stings to have to defend myself.
 

But I will have to abstain from any further discussion. You're welcome to your opinion, just know that it is a little hurtful to invalidate someone's racial identity. I'm black. I experience the world as a black man. That doesn't go away just because my father is a Mexican American.

Hispanic isn't a race, hope this helps. That makes you afro-latino and majority black. Aka black. 

 

I'm not invalidating anything, I just think the black race is too quick to accept everyone into ours when the other races wont do anything of the sort. If you are over 50% black you're black, if you are half and half you can identify as a black person but you will never be one, I don't care what that ridiculous racist one drop rule says

[mons†er]

13 hours ago, KevinKDC said:

 

So what do you call black culture discriminating, creating boundaries and hindrances in place in order to keep gays from simply living their lives?

 

And besides that I can name you many places where a black person can act based on racism. What about against other minorities? In Suriname, the country where I live, blacks are the majority and Asians and latinos are the main minority. Latinos here can't get jobs because they are easily associated with violence and theft; and the most directors here are black men.

 

Racism is defined as the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities that make them superior or inferior to one another. It involves discrimination, prejudice, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. 
 

Because a race or group has or are experiencing racism; doesn't mean they are immune of being racist or doing racist acts.

 

And this is coming from someone who is biracial and black. I've seen EVERY race perform racist acts. No one is immune from doing it or being at the receiving end.

1. This isn't the oppression olympics. Being gay or queer does not equate to racism, that equates to prejudice and bigotry. Which I stated black people can be. In my original statement, if you actually read it instead of trying to be obtuse.

2. Reread my post you quoted and the first line and that will basically negate everything you said. 

[PoisonedIvy]

1 hour ago, MattieB said:

Hispanic isn't a race, hope this helps. That makes you afro-latino and majority black. Aka black. 

 

I'm not invalidating anything, I just think the black race is too quick to accept everyone into ours when the other races wont do anything of the sort. If you are over 50% black you're black, if you are half and half you can identify as a black person but you will never be one, I don't care what that ridiculous racist one drop rule says

I'm not afrolatino, that's a term reserved for Latinos that are black. The Hispanic side of my family are mestizo. My grandparents nor my father are black, therefore my Latin heritage is not the same as someone that is actually afrolatino. How can you police someone's racial identity when it's a social construct, anyway? If society sees me as a black man, I was raised as a black man, and I perceive myself as a black man… in what world do you have the right to deny that?  

[Wicked]

2 hours ago, MattieB said:

Hispanic isn't a race, hope this helps. That makes you afro-latino and majority black. Aka black. 

 

I'm not invalidating anything, I just think the black race is too quick to accept everyone into ours when the other races wont do anything of the sort. If you are over 50% black you're black, if you are half and half you can identify as a black person but you will never be one, I don't care what that ridiculous racist one drop rule says

Um... Biracials are Black in the US. You equating that to the one drop rule doesn't make much sense.

 

If people were calling Joe Manganiello Black that would make sense, but then you're further going into race science talking about percentages make someone Black is pure BS. Who the hell cares about what other races do and who they claim, the one drop rule is an American thing anyway and how Black people elsewhere identify their own people is their business. 

[MattieB]

22 minutes ago, Wicked said:

Um... Biracials are Black in the US. You equating that to the one drop rule doesn't make much sense.

 

If people were calling Joe Manganiello Black that would make sense, but then you're further going into race science talking about percentages make someone Black is pure BS. Who the hell cares about what other races do and who they claim, the one drop rule is an American thing anyway and how Black people elsewhere identify their own people is their business. 

Biracials are only black in the us due to the one drop rule, which is VERY RACIST in its nature, a lot of black folks are disavowing themselves from that mess, as I said they are BIRACIAL, their race is BIRACIAL not black, if you arent white why would you be black. Black mixed with something doesn't automatically make it black.

You can definitely identify with it, that doesn't mean you are