base talk Why is it unpopular to say that Taylor is as big as MJ?

[Popboi.]

33 minutes ago, Charmed Life said:

"Swift drove the evolution of music distribution, perception, and consumption across the 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s, and has used social media to spotlight issues within the industry and society at large. Wielding a strong economic and political leverage, she prompted reforms to recording, streaming and distribution structures for greater artists' rights, increased awareness of creative ownership in terms of masters and intellectual property, and has led the vinyl revival Her consistent commercial success is considered unprecedented by journalists, with simultaneous achievements in album sales, digital sales, streaming, airplay, record charts and touring.

 

 

 

Good for her, However, there's a vast difference between making an impact with your God given talent and what's written in that paragraph above.

So objective impact that changed the course of revenue in the music industry is void cause it's not about her "talent", but impact on breaking taboos in the industry etc cause of a daring image isn't?

Edited August 5 by Popboi.

[WildHeart]

1 minute ago, mons†er said:

I'm black and black people cant be racist.

 

You are not very bright either which explains your previous post. 

[mons†er]

4 minutes ago, WildHeart said:

 

You are not very bright either which explains your previous post. 

The irony  Please do us all a favor and go read a dictionary instead of fighting for Taylor Swift. It's clear the schools need to open early. 

[elincomprendid]

7 hours ago, Tylerbv said:

Honestly? Because her talent is so low compared to his. People fainted to see him and she can barely sing

His talent being making people faint? Or what exactly? 

[elincomprendid]

Long story short is no matter what anyone does right now people never values contemporary stats as they value older acts

 

itll be in 30 years when people will be saying oh Taylor in the early 2020s was the biggest peak of all time for an artist

 

but don't expect that to be soon specially from the haters 

[WildHeart]

6 minutes ago, mons†er said:

The irony 

Indeed. 

[simplywohoo]

Bc she's bigger!

[Worm]

I think the main difference does come down to the nebulous idea of 'cultural impact' and how an artist trailblazes and shapes what comes after them, the marks they leave on the cultural landscape that influence future generations.

If you think of someone like Adele, you can see how tremendous commercial success doesn't always equate to any kind of tectonic shift in music/the pop landscape. What other artist would be different if Adele had never existed? The same could be said about Ed Sheeran. 

Arguably artists like Lana Del Rey and Lorde have had more impact defining the way that today's pop music sounds than Taylor, and if you stripped Taylor out of music history it's hard to come up with anything that would sound different (besides maybe Olivia's catalogue). There isn't really a unique '1989 sound' that people have tried to emulate, and unfortunately the Folklore/Evermore style of music (which does feel more original and groundbreaking for a pop artist) hasn't really caught on and shifted the landscape in the same way that Born To Die or Pure Heroin did.  

 

The part that does get overlooked a lot though is how much Taylor has done for the business side of artistry and how monumental an impact she has had there. Just looking at what she's done for other artists and the profitability of music as a whole, it's easy to come up with lots of examples that are unmatched by her peers and predecessors:

• Fighting for artist royalties from Spotify and Apple Music back in 2015
• Bringing publicity to the issue of artists not owning their masters
• Forging a way for artists to successfully reclaim their masters (and thus giving them more bargaining power when negotiating contracts with label execs)
• Redefining what a successful tour can look like
• Establishing a new way (in the West at least) for an artist to mobilise their fanbase to buy multiple copies of an album and achieve sales figures not seen for a decade

Unfortunately that side of things is just never going to be as culturally relevant to listeners as the ways in which MJ and Madonna pushed boundaries musically and culturally, because most of it is only ever seen behind the scenes and doesn't impact the listener directly. 

 

I think it ultimately comes down to the fact that when you say MJ or Madonna were big, you're not just saying they were big because they were commercially successful - you're also talking about how innovative, pioneering and progressive they were as artists and how they pushed the culture forward beyond just being famous or making money. It's a lot harder to do that in 2024 and the comparison is set up to be unfair for that reason, but you can see why many people would quite fairly disagree that Taylor has matched their accomplishments (even if she has achieved things that they never did, like fighting for artists to own their masters or finding new ways for the industry to stay profitable when record sales have mostly dried up). 

[RihannaRTT]

Many reasons. 

 

Firstly nostalgia. We are currently living through Taylor's ongoing career. Would MJ have had these conversations during his tenure? Unlikely. It's the same as how "classics" are viewed. Can you honestly say any song from the last 10 years is bigger than I Will Always Love You, My Heart Will Go On or Thriller?

Secondly the importance of sales. Chart success is one thing, but there are so many big songs that are forgotten, just as there are so many songs that flopped but are now beloved and remembered. Sales doesn't influence what will stand the test of time. Is MJ simply remembered bc he had a chart record, or is he remembered for being much more than that?

Thirdly cultural impact. Is Taylor doing anything groundbreaking to where she's changing the industry and opening doors? When you talk about people like Madonna, Cher, Tina, MJ, Elvis, The Beatles, they're adored bc of their long-lasting impact on the music scene and the barrier they broke. I'd almost say of the new generation, Beyonce is the one whose cultural impact actually matters. 

 

Saying someone is "as big as" and "the next..." are two different things. But if we're talking about "the next...", I'd compare Taylor to The Beatles and Beyonce to MJ. But neither are "as big as" and likely never will be, nor no other artist. 

[lonnie]

Well I think the comparisons are due to each being the biggest artists at their respective eras. When it comes down to it, MJ literally broke down barriers being one of the first Black artists to be played on MTV etc, he had A LOT going against him and still managed to be the biggest solo artist of all time. His presence just seemed (even when he was past his prime and no longer releasing) ubiquitous while even if Taylor is clearly huge her success doesn't seem to transcend charts and sales which MJ's kind of did. The comparisons will probably be unavoidable because Taylor isn't stopping anytime soon, but I totally understand those that reject the notion that Taylor is as big as MJ because frankly no one is (yet) and it's going to take A LOT for that to happen.

[Shimenawa]

Can't sing, can't perform, mid music for teenagers, no timeless classic hit songs

 

But yeah great numbers, beautiful numbers

 

Edited August 5 by Shimenawa

[Démodé]

Delulu.

 

She ain't. She won't.

 

She has no Billie Jean or Thriller or any equally legendary MV. 

 

 

https://tenor.com/LRk6.gif

 

 

[Charmed Life]

1 hour ago, WildHeart said:

She has that platform because she created a legacy with her music thanks to... her God given talent

No, she's where she is because we've been living in a world for the past decade or so where mediocrity and relatability rule above everything else. She comes across as spiteful, manipulative, competetive and rather bratty if I'm going to be completely honest - combine this with her bland music, and songwriting (usually about her exes) and you get a large group of obsessive like minded followers (mostly women and gays between the age of 10-30), who live their life through her and do nothing but moan about their exes, make friendship bracelets, sip Coffee, stream and buy most (if not all) of her variants.

 

The woman cannot sing or dance to save her life, which begs the question what is her actual talent? I predict your answer is going to be songwriting, but she's hardly the storyteller, or wordsmith that Joni Mitchel and Carole King are. Her talent is marketing herself and that's about it really, she should not be placed on the same level as someone who can sing, dance, read music, break down barriers, and make artistic albums like Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, and that's before I begin to talk about the performances and short films.

 

MJ's talent was very rare, TS just cannot compete. Sorry.

Edited August 5 by Charmed Life

[halcyonday]

57 minutes ago, mons†er said:

I'm black and black people cant be racist

 some of y'all really need school

 

taylor's gonna be the biggest female artist of all time when it's all said and done, MJ better watch out!

[WildHeart]

9 minutes ago, Charmed Life said:

No, she's where she is because we've been living in a world for the past decade or so where mediocrity and relatability rule above everything else. She comes across as spiteful, manipulative, competetive and rather bratty if I'm going to be completely honest - combine this with her bland music, and songwriting (usually about her exes) and you get a large group of obsessive like minded followers (mostly women and gays between the age of 10-30), who live their life through her and do nothing but moan about their exes, make friendship bracelets, sip Coffee, stream and buy most (if not all) of her variants.

 

The woman cannot sing or dance to save her life, which begs the question what is her actual talent? I predict your answer is going to be songwriting, but she's hardly the storyteller, or wordsmith that Joni Mitchel and Carole King are. As I said, her talent is marketing herself and that's about it really, she should not be placed on the same level as someone who can sing, dance, break down barriers, and make artistic albums like Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad, and that's before I begin to talk about the performances and short films.

 

MJ's talent was very rare, TS just cannot compete. Sorry.

Go outside and take a deep breath, everything will be ok 

[Charmed Life]

Just now, WildHeart said:

Go outside and take a deep breath, everything will be ok 

Thanks for your constructive post, luv.

[Jay07]

Racism is structural and minorities don't have structural power. Educate yourselves, please.

[Solaria]

She hasn't surpassed his total units yet, until she does that she isn't bigger than him. Swifties wouldn't even disagree with that.

[MattieB]

Because it'd be a downright lie and right on brand to replace black talent with white mediocrity 

 

That man was ethereal, he was a multitalenter and excelled in each and every aspect of it, he had excellent penmanship, a great producer, he beat boxed his instrumentals, a one in a million dancer, extremely good tap dancer, an actual artist (go look up his drawings and paintings), an excellent poet, a giving philanthropist, regularly visited children's hospitals, supported Palestine etc etc etc

 

That man was a once in a millenia enigma and to compare him to the symbol of white mediocrity is a great insult to the black community, yall basically saying all it needs to surpass him is a Fandom of screaming white people and selling records when that alone wasn't what made MJ the force of nature he was

 

Taylor swift is VERY mediocre, a Mark of a true artist is being able to touch cultures that exist outside of your own, MJ had Fans all the way from north America, South America, Africa, Middle East, Asia, Australia. He penetrated every single demographic from the very young to the geriatric. 

Yall underestimate how unknown Taylor swift is outside of first world countries, meanwhile hidden villages in Africa had Michael posters on their home walls. 

 

They are simply not comparable, never have been and never will be. And at this point it's racist white people doing the comparisons

[MattieB]

Dp

Edited August 5 by MattieB
Double post

[ChooseyLover]

If a delusional swiftie is going to do something that's claiming Taylor Swift invented music, is the biggest and most talented artist of all time and nobody that came before, during or after her matters.

 

I don't understand why some of her fans have to come up with **** like this. Her accomplishments speak for themselves, celebrate them instead of diminishing others.

[WildHeart]

8 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

Racism is structural and minorities don't have structural power. Educate yourselves, please.

What type of logic is that? So black people can't be racist against Asian people in the US which is even smaller minority? 

Asian people cant be racist against Latinos because both are minorities? 

 

And you are talking about education in the same post my god 

Edited August 5 by WildHeart

[MattieB]

8 hours ago, Tylerbv said:

Honestly? Because her talent is so low compared to his. People fainted to see him and she can barely sing

Its practically non-existent. Can't sing, elementary rhymes and subpar performer. Her only super power is being white with blonde hair and blue eyes

[Dante Silva]

I was never a fan of Michael Jackson but whenever he or Madonna launched an album they evolved as artists, broke barriers, altered fashion and instigated societal change.  Taylor (whilst the most popular artist since) does none of these things. She has no clue what the zeitgeist is or how to tap in to it.

[MattieB]

1 minute ago, WildHeart said:

What type of logic is that? So black people can't be racist against Asian people in the US which is even smaller minority? 

Asian people cant be racist against Latinos because both are minorities? 

 

Some of you are so weird my god 

You cawkujuns are so ignorant and tone-deaf