news Trump: Let Israel finish the job; Deport/jail Pro-Palestine protestors

[favorite crime]

I've seen many threads about Kamala's "terrible" stance on Israel-Palestine and none on Trump. Her ceasefire calls and two-state solutions are insufficient and so one is complicit in genocide if you vote for her. But what happens if Trump wins? He said he'll get the Supreme Court to ban flag burning, he wants all foreign "extremist" Pro-Palestine voters deported. He's repeatedly expressed that he thinks Israel is completely in the right and if it were him in Bibi's position he'd have already bombed the whole strip.

 

 

 

 

[Oxygen]

And people want to let him win by not voting Kamala? 

[ariananext]

the job of committing a genocide? 

[Almighty Gaga]

It's clear that the US runs on policies that will never change, regardless of the "we must stop the war!!" fake speeches. Whoever is in charge will be pro-genocide and will continue to be Israel's puppet.

[Riot]

32 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

And people want to let him win by not voting Kamala? 

"B-but Kamala is a zionist"

[glitch]

The US will be tied to Israel for the foreseeable future. Better to elect someone who you'll be allowed to demonstrate against rather than someone who will arrest you for exercising your right to protest.

[Mordecai]

If Trump wins in November, goes on to do far worse things and you all sit there saying 'we should've voted for Kamala', then what?

 

Vote her IN. Then air your grievances. Otherwise all you'll be doing is talking to a brick wall in Trump

Edited July 26 by Mordecai

[CaptainMusic]

Yeah I'm pro-Palestine but not voting for Kamala over Trump at this point is just dumb.

 

If it was Biden I'd understand but Kamala's at least shown she's capable of pivoting and having sympathy for Gaza, it will be far worse for Palestinians if Trump gets into power again.  

[Bloodflowers.]

37 minutes ago, glitch said:

The US will be tied to Israel for the foreseeable future. Better to elect someone who you'll be allowed to demonstrate against rather than someone who will arrest you for exercising your right to protest.

 

8 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said:

Yeah I'm pro-Palestine but not voting for Kamala over Trump at this point is just dumb.

 

If it was Biden I'd understand but Kamala's at least shown she's capable of pivoting and having sympathy for Gaza, it will be far worse for Palestinians if Trump gets into power again.  

 

This 

 

[Bosque]

People need to realize that the vast majority of American voters do not care about foreign policy. Something like 2-5% of people take it into consideration for their vote. What voters do care about are people burning American flags, chanting death to America and waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags on the street. This message is going to play well with independents and occasional voters jd increase Trumps chances of winning. 
 

you can feel whatever type of way you want about that, but it is the reality. I don't understand why leftists are unable to think strategically about this and disavow the pro Hamas protests. 

[State of Grace.]

1 hour ago, favorite crime said:

I've seen many threads about Kamala's "terrible" stance on Israel-Palestine and none on Trump.

Because we're on ATRL. The majority of users here are already not voting for him (at least I would like to think that). We already know he's a felon, a genocidal ghoul, and a threat to everyone. No point in arguing with that.

 

I totally understand if you're voting Kamala because Project 2025 is terrible and all that, but constantly shutting down any discussion about the Democratic Party being **** with "suck it up and stop criticizing Kamala because Trump ____! You want Republicans to win!" is simply not it. Some of you are geniunely so rotten with these bad faith arguments. You claim to be pro-democracy and freedom then cry about people rightfully criticizing your favorite candidates. You did it with the senile ghoul and you are already doing it with her. Kamala will continue to be called out and you will have to deal with it.

Edited July 26 by State of Grace.

[Princess Aurora]

Good Luck with that America 

[Rune]

18 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Because we're on ATRL. The majority of users here are already not voting for him (at least I would like to think that). We already know he's a felon, a genocidal ghoul, and a threat to everyone. No point in arguing with that.

 

I totally understand if you're voting Kamala because Project 2025 is terrible and all that, but constantly shutting down any discussion about the Democratic Party being **** with "suck it up and stop criticizing Kamala because Trump ____! You want Republicans to win!" is simply not it. Some of you are geniunely so rotten with these bad faith arguments. You claim to be pro-democracy and freedom then cry about people rightfully criticizing your favorite candidates. You did it with the senile ghoul and you are already doing it with her. Kamala will continue to be called out and you will have to deal with it.

And yet you seemed to have a problem with this post. Nowhere in the post did I demand you stop criticizing useless posturing Democrats.

 

Acknowledging that while she's not the ideal but still better than the alternative is what you still chose to take issue with.

[State of Grace.]

3 minutes ago, Rune said:

And yet you seemed to have a problem with this post. Nowhere in the post did I demand you stop criticizing useless posturing Democrats.

 

Acknowledging that while she's not the ideal but still better than the alternative is what you still chose to take issue with.

You quoted someone criticizing her with "Bite tbe bullet, vote Harris". That is exactly what I'm talking about. Yall need to stop trying to force people (Arab/Palestinian Americans mainly) and guilt trip them into voting for her just because the other alternative is bad/worse.

[Cry]

30 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Because we're on ATRL. The majority of users here are already not voting for him (at least I would like to think that). We already know he's a felon, a genocidal ghoul, and a threat to everyone. No point in arguing with that.

 

I totally understand if you're voting Kamala because Project 2025 is terrible and all that, but constantly shutting down any discussion about the Democratic Party being **** with "suck it up and stop criticizing Kamala because Trump ____! You want Republicans to win!" is simply not it. Some of you are geniunely so rotten with these bad faith arguments. You claim to be pro-democracy and freedom then cry about people rightfully criticizing your favorite candidates. You did it with the senile ghoul and you are already doing it with her. Kamala will continue to be called out and you will have to deal with it.

To be fair, not that I'm too much into politics, but seeing how Trump kept seeing and alluded at having protesters and other type of people who basically disagree with him either locked or deported … I fear that if he wins, he might turn the US into whatever Russia is at the moment, especially if the other components that are also having a say in what laws get a pass or not are full of republicans that support him.   at this point, might be best to vote based on the most critical issue, like either keeping US a democratic country or risk it having turned into a fascist state.

[Rune]

1 minute ago, State of Grace. said:

You quoted someone criticizing her with "Bite tbe bullet, vote Harris". That is exactly what I'm talking about. Yall need to stop trying to force people (Arab/Palestinian Americans mainly) and guilt trip them into voting for her just because the other alternative is bad/worse.

If they're feeling guilt tripped into voting for Harris by random people stating the obvious I can't imagine how guilty they're going to feel when Trump is president.

[State of Grace.]

1 minute ago, Cry said:

To be fair, not that I'm too much into politics, but seeing how Trump kept seeing and alluded at having protesters and other type of people who basically disagree with him either locked or deported … I fear that if he wins, he might turn the US into whatever Russia is at the moment, especially if the other components that are also having a say in what laws get a pass or not are full of republicans that support him.   at this point, might be best to vote based on the most critical issue, like either keeping US a democratic country or risk it having turned into a fascist state.

That is obviously a fair concern and I don't disagree. As I said I mostly just take issue with people shutting down any critiques Kamala gets with deflections to Trump and his policy, when we all know he's a fascist bigot. 

[State of Grace.]

5 minutes ago, Rune said:

If they're feeling guilt tripped into voting for Harris by random people stating the obvious I can't imagine how guilty they're going to feel when Trump is president.

Explain to me why would someone who has watched their families and relatives being butchered live over the last 9 months with the support of Biden would want to still vote blue. 

 

They are totally justified in not voting for either.

Edited July 26 by State of Grace.

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

Acknowledging that while she's not the ideal but still better than the alternative is what you still chose to take issue with.

A lot of you have really strong opinions about how people should feel about Kamala's support of Israel yet seemingly don't ever bother to cite or defer to the actual people who'll be impacted by Kamala's policy if she chooses not to break ranks with Biden. Surely if Kamala is somehow already unmovable on Israel that you're lashing out at people encouraging her to support Palestinians, then it's better to just let those whose vote is deiced by her foreign policy not vote for her and find other channels where she'll stay progressive?

 

Her polling that shows her ahead of Trump cites those gains as from young people, progressives, etc. Not white moderates independents. 

 

A lot of your existing anger seems to stem from the fact that you already believe Kamala will make poor political calculus and are trying to work backwards from there.

 

I have faith Kamala can be pushed to be progressive on foreign policy, immigration, the economy, etc. despite establishment pressure not to be. Why don't you?

 

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Cry said:

To be fair, not that I'm too much into politics, but seeing how Trump kept seeing and alluded at having protesters and other type of people who basically disagree with him either locked or deported … I fear that if he wins, he might turn the US into whatever Russia is at the moment, especially if the other components that are also having a say in what laws get a pass or not are full of republicans that support him.   at this point, might be best to vote based on the most critical issue, like either keeping US a democratic country or risk it having turned into a fascist state.

Trump is the greatest threat to democracy and whose re-election will completely send America into a spiral of fascism.

 

Which is why a candidate whose only path to winning the election is through massive youth turnout must do everything she can to not offend the sensibilities of young voters or purposefully antagonize them based on what 55-year-old advisors in DC whisper in her ear:

 

Edited July 26 by Communion

[HardBambi]

I told you guys he's MUCH worse than Biden 

[GipJo]

1 hour ago, State of Grace. said:

Explain to me why would someone who has watched their families and relatives being butchered live over the last 9 months with the support of Biden would want to still vote blue. 

 

They are totally justified in not voting for either.

Simple, because red WILL do worse, how about that? No one said they absolute have to vote for her, but if you really care that much about Gaza and make it your first priority in this vote, you should really consider the things Trump could do to Gaza and its people if he is elected. If you choose to ignore that, I would say you don't really care about it at all, you only care on the surface level.

[Ryan]

Same talking points. Same obtuse and obstructionist conversations. If people want to be single issue voters over this, let them. There’s no convincing them. Period.
 

Whether it’s about the binary choice for POTUS — where one is against genocide despite not 100% having the stance of which they demand versus one who literally encourages Israel to kill over one. Of which they’ll just write in a name for potus or not choose someone bc XYZ and their state isn’t in play or whatever reason. 

 

Or the concept of duality — decades of American foreign policy reasons is why we (the country cause fuck them) are allied with Israel while one can fervently support the Palestinian people.

 

Im tired of having the same arguments that we’ve had for the last 9 months. I’m tired of the disingenuous ranting. It is what it is.

[Communion]

11 minutes ago, GipJo said:

Simple, because red WILL do worse

Palestinians are largely unconvinced it can get worse. As well as the American doctors who go there and see that many of their children patients are coming in not from hunger but needing bullets removed from their bodies. 

 

I get it might be too hard to stomach and thus people for their own sanity look away. But the "it could get worse" rhetoric seemingly becomes less effective when the present reality is some of the most horrific images of children with their limbs exploded or stories of being sexually abused or violently raped as a form of torture for young teens taken into Israeli custody. 

 

If most videos from Gaza can't be shared on here because they'd violate rules about gore and upsetting imagery, what does that say?

 

I'm not sure why liberals are convinced Kamala cannot be convinced to care for the dignity of Palestinians. I think she can and that any pressure to get her there is good. But if you don't, and seemingly have resided to the position that the current state of genocide is fine, then surely it makes more sense to accept persuasive defeat in this topic and hope there's another avenue Kamala can be pushed to keep the progressive line on and this is what is flaunted to progressives as her strength, be it the economy or immigration. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26 by Communion

[State of Grace.]

16 minutes ago, GipJo said:

Simple, because red WILL do worse, how about that? No one said they absolute have to vote for her, but if you really care that much about Gaza and make it your first priority in this vote, you should really consider the things Trump could do to Gaza and its people if he is elected. If you choose to ignore that, I would say you don't really care about it at all, you only care on the surface level.

Nearly 200,000 people having killed. Tens of thousands injured and missing under the rubble. ALL happened during Biden's term and under his support. The genocide has been already going on for +9 months. If you think Palestinians in America are gonna sit down and listen to you selfish fucks say things like "well that's okay, but if you REALLY care about Gaza then Trump is gonna make it worse hehehe" then **** you. "it could get worse" is NOT an argument. What? The 2M people in Gaza will be wiped off the face of the earth? I am exhausted of people like you.

Edited July 26 by State of Grace.